Energy Bill [ Lords ] (Eighteenth sitting)

Alan Brown Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 29th June 2023 Public Bill Committees

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. I want to say a few words in support of new clause 87. As the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam outlined, it is not even that onerous, as it is about reporting going forward, although I always find that clauses that require reporting still have the Government running a mile, because they do not like to commit to it.

Government Members voted to remove from the Bill clauses 272 and 273, which were in favour of community energy schemes and putting in place arrangements to procure them. The argument from the Minister was:

“Introducing a fixed price would be a step backwards, as it requires all energy consumers to pay more than the market price for electricity to subsidise local communities that benefit from community energy projects.”––[Official Report, Energy Public Bill Committee, 20 June 2023; c. 357.]

I do not think it is too onerous to ask all billpayers to help to subsidise a few community schemes. Will the Minister write to the Committee to outline what additional costs the Government think would go on to all billpayers’ bills if there was a fixed price guarantee for local energy schemes? It is really important that we understand what the Government think the extra costs would be for billpayers.

The Government happily tell us that the regulated asset base model in the Nuclear Energy (Financing) Act 2022 will add £10 to every single bill in the UK. If that is the case and it is okay for nuclear, why do they not look at what the costs and benefits overall for local community energy schemes would be? That is my main point.

Will the Minister also write to the Committee to outline the amount of community energy that has been deployed each year in the last decade? That will allow us to understand the trends and how easy it is for community energy schemes to access the grid and the system and whether there are any blockers.

Finally, perhaps the Minister does not need to write to us on this, but will he spell out what he thinks the flaws are now in the original Local Electricity Bill that he did not see at the time, when he signed up as a supporter and sponsor of the Bill? What are the defects, since he is now against such a concept?

[Andrew Bowie]

I thank hon. Members for their contributions, and especially the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam for tabling new clause 87, which seeks to create a new community energy strategy, to be followed up with annual reports to Parliament on progress for the sector. The Committee discussed community energy in great detail last week—and a very enjoyable debate it was too. I reassure the Committee that the Government are, as we speak, looking closely at this matter. I urge all Members to watch this space.

Nevertheless, I remind Members that the Government’s general approach to community energy is already laid out in the net zero strategy and the net zero growth plan. As such, we do not see any added value in mandating a dedicated community energy strategy or annual report in the manner set out in the new clause. Instead, we believe it is more beneficial to the community energy sector for the Government to continue our approach to help local authorities and community energy groups to work together to develop funding for projects across the net zero agenda, with funding from existing sources such as UK growth funding schemes.

For example, the UK shared prosperity fund provides £2.6 billion in funding for investment in places, including for community infrastructure projects. Ofgem supports community energy projects and welcomes applications to the industry voluntary redress scheme. Through our local net zero hubs, we are supporting local authorities and community energy groups to work together, including by funding a pilot programme that supports local authorities to develop community-led energy groups and projects.

The Government have also reintroduced the community energy contact group to strengthen our engagement with the sector. I have already outlined our arguments as to why the new clause would not be fair, so I am afraid that I cannot commit to writing to the Committee, as the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun asks me to. In relation to why my own personal position may be now what it is, I have always been, and remain, committed to supporting community-led energy groups across the country. That is why we are working to implement schemes to support those projects across the entire UK. We will continue to do so, and I will be their biggest champion.

[Alan Brown]

It was positive to hear the Minister say, “Watch this space” because the Government are reviewing things. However, I reiterate my request that he writes to the Committee to outline what he thinks the costs will be. That must be a Government concern if they are considering how to provide further support to community energy schemes. That is a serious request—I am not trying to be awkward. Also, how much community energy is being deployed each year?

[Andrew Bowie]

I would be delighted to engage in further discussion with the hon. Gentleman and other interested hon. Members. I will commit to ongoing engagement, but we do not believe that the new clause provides any added value.

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[Dr Whitehead]

I have no further comments to make, other than to thank the Minister for his comments. There are indeed consultations under way through Ofgem, and I look forward to seeing what those have to say. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 90

Objections by planning authorities to applications for consent under section 36 or 37 of the Electricity Act 1989

“(1) Schedule 8 to the Electricity Act 1989 is amended as follows.

(2) Omit paragraph 2.

(3) In the cross-heading before paragraph 3, omit ‘by other persons’.

(4) In paragraph 3, omit sub-sub-paragraph (2)(a).”—(Alan Brown.)

This new clause would remove the ability of a local planning authority automatically to cause a public inquiry to be held by objecting to an application to the Secretary of State for consent under section 36 or 37 of the Electricity Act 1989, instead leaving Ministers to decide whether a public inquiry should be held.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Alan Brown]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 91—Variations of consents under section 37 of the Electricity Act 1989—

“(1) The Electricity Act 1989 is amended as follows.

(2) After section 37, insert—

‘37A Variation of consents under section 37

(1) The person for the time being entitled to the benefit of a section 37 consent may make an application to the Secretary of State for the consent to be varied.

(2) Regulations made by the Secretary of State may make provision about the variation of a section 37 consent, including in particular provision about—

(a) the making and withdrawal of applications;

(b) fees;

(c) publicity and consultation requirements;

(d) rights to make representations;

(e) public inquiries;

(f) consideration of applications.

(3) Regulations under subsection (2) may provide for any statutory provision applicable to the grant of a section 37 consent to apply with specified modifications to the variation of a section 37 consent.

(4) On an application for a section 37 consent to be varied, the appropriate authority may make such variations to the consent as appear to the authority to be appropriate, having regard (in particular) to—

(a) the applicant's reasons for seeking the variation;

(b) the variations proposed;

(c) any objections made to the proposed variations, the views of consultees and the outcome of any public inquiry.

(5) Regulations may make provision treating, for prescribed purposes, a section 37 consent varied under this section as granted in its varied form when the original consent was granted (rather than when the variation was made).

(7) In this section—

“section 37 consent” means a consent granted under section 37 (consent required for overhead lines), whenever granted;

“statutory provision” means a provision of or made under an Act, whenever passed or made; and for this purpose “Act” includes an Act of the Scottish Parliament and an Act of the Assembly.’”

This new clause would introduce into the Electricity Act 1989 provision for applications to vary consents under section 37 (consent required for overhead power lines), which currently, unlike consents under section 36 (construction, extension or operation of generating station), require a new application to be made for consent.

[Alan Brown]

The Committee must have been delighted that I managed to table two new clauses right at the deadline. Hopefully I will not detain the Committee too long.

These two new clauses derive from liaison and discussions that I had with Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks, which is responsible for the transmission system in the north of Scotland. Its work and infrastructure are clearly going to be integral to having a system that gets renewable energy from the north of Scotland to elsewhere in Great Britain and, in the case of surplus energy, to Ireland and Europe for export. The Minister is obviously well aware of that, given that it relates to his constituency, but hopefully he is also aware of the need to have a streamlined process that facilitates the deployment of critical grid infrastructure and has thought about the issues that the new clauses cover.

Taking offshore wind in the round, there is a target of 50 GW of deployment by 2030, although it has to be said that that was set largely on a whim by Boris Johnson, who raised the target from 30 GW, to 40 GW and then suddenly to 50 GW. Now, I am all for that ambition and that target, and if we achieve the deployment of 50 GW of offshore wind energy by 2030, that would be fantastic, but we need the policies and support in place to make that happen. Right now, even the Government’s own offshore wind champion, Tim Pick, says we are not going to hit that 50 GW target. So is the offshore wind champion still a champion who knows his stuff, or will the Minister explain why Tim Pick is wrong and why that 50 GW target will be achieved by 2030?

Tim Pick said that there is more likely to be 40 GW of deployment by 2030, which arguably would still be a significant achievement, but it would represent only 80% of the current target. The reality is that we have 14 GW of offshore wind deployed at the moment, so if we are to hit 50 GW by 2030, we need 5 GW of new offshore wind to come onstream every year until 2030.

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[Andrew Bowie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contributions on the new clauses. I have said in Committee, on the Floor of the House and elsewhere that this is the biggest challenge we face—connectivity and improving capacity in the grid—if we are to reach our targets, not just on our net zero commitments but in becoming more energy secure and delivering cheaper bills for the British people.

I recognise that the speed of electricity consenting in Scotland is critical to those aims and to the whole UK economy, as I have just suggested. It is important to enable rapid deployment of renewable energy generation and of the transmission lines needed to transport it to consumers across the country. With that goal in mind, we are aware that areas of the Scottish planning system need to be reviewed—specifically the ones that the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun just mentioned—and we are committed to speeding up planning decisions across the UK wherever possible.

I am sure, however, that we are all in agreement—I know the hon. Gentleman is—that the issues are incredibly complex and multifaceted, and that any potential changes need to be carefully considered to ensure they are the right ones for consumers and the network. For example, as the Electricity Act 1989 applies to projects in England and Wales less than 132 kV and 2 km, and to all transmission projects in Scotland, we need to be certain that any amendments to the Bill would not have unintended consequences elsewhere. Moreover, we would not want to remove an automatic inquiry trigger without understanding what could replace that process.

The Government share the concerns of the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun and we want to find a solution. I have had constructive discussion with the Energy Minister in the Scottish Government and within my Department on how to resolve this issue moving forward, but I am interested to meet the hon. Gentleman and anyone else he might suggest so that we can work together on a solution to this complicated issue. I therefore do not feel that we can accept his new clauses, and I would be grateful if he did not press them to a vote.

[Alan Brown]

I was shocked when the Minister said that he could not accept the new clauses—I did not see that coming! I am having to think on my feet, because I am completely thrown.

To make a serious point, I appreciate the Minister’s offer of a meeting, and I would like to take that up. I suggest that we have someone from the industry there as well. I am happy to work with the Minister to see how we can resolve the matter. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Schedule 1

Permitted disclosures of material obtained by OGA

“Disclosure by OGA to specified persons

1 (1) Section (Prohibition on disclosure) does not prohibit a disclosure of protected material by the OGA which—

(a) is made to a person mentioned in column 1 of the table below,

(b) is made for the purpose of facilitating the carrying out of that person’s functions, and

(c) is a disclosure of protected material obtained by the OGA under a provision mentioned in the corresponding entry of column 2 of the table.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 114, in clause 275, page 242, line 31, at end insert—

“(10A) The Secretary of State may not make regulations under this Act which would affect any matter within the competence of the Scottish Parliament unless the Secretary of State has first—

(a) consulted the Scottish Ministers on a draft of the regulations; and

(b) obtained the consent of the Scottish Parliament to the regulations.”

Clauses 275 to 277 stand part.

Government amendments 171, 172, 123, 133, 131 and 175.

Clause 278 stand part.

Government amendment 17.

Clause 279 stand part.

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[Dr Whitehead]

I also have a 3,000-word speech, but I will not give it today. The Government amendments and clauses are wholly unexceptional, and are essential for the speed of the Bill. I have nothing further to add to what the Minister said.

[Alan Brown]

I will be brief. Amendment 114 is about getting the consent of Scottish Ministers before the passing of regulations. I could have tabled it to any number of previous clauses, but this is the most appropriate clause for it to relate to, because it relates to the regulations made under the whole Bill.

There has been talk of collegiate working—the two Governments working together—and the Minister said that he wants to find a different process, but there remain concerns that unless there is a firmed-up process, there is a risk that, somewhere down the line, policies and regulations will be proposed against the consent of Scottish Ministers.

The Scottish Government support the Bill; we are working together in these policy areas. It is not about trying to give the Scottish Government some sort of veto but about working together and ensuring that processes are in place that allow for not just consultation but taking the advice and wishes of the Scottish Government on board.

I know that the word “consent” always makes the Westminster Government very nervous, because they think it gives too much power to the Scottish Parliament, but it is not about that. It is not about political fights; it is about working together and ensuring that the wishes of the Scottish Government in respect of energy matters and considerations are taken on board.

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[Alan Brown]

I do not think it would be an unnecessary legislative burden, to be honest. If it is some simple process, consent will be equally simple to achieve, so I do not think it would unduly delay things or overcomplicate them. I will not press amendment 114, but I reserve the right to table it on Report, because I really want to ensure that things are resolved to the satisfaction of each side.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 274 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 275

Regulations

Amendment made: 19, in clause 275, page 241, line 35, after “State” insert “, the Treasury”.—(Andrew Bowie.)

This amendment provides for regulations made by the Treasury to be made by statutory instrument. This will affect regulations under paragraph 9 of Schedule 7.

Clause 275, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 276 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 277

Extent

Amendments made: 168, in clause 277, page 243, line 6, at end insert

“, except section (Power to modify Gas Act 1986 in relation to hydrogen)”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 170.

Amendment 169, in clause 277, page 243, line 16, at end insert—

“(aa) sections (Key definitions for Part), (Designation), (Designation: procedure), (Revocation of designation), (Grant, extension or restriction of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State), (Applications for grant etc of gas transporter licence), (Modification of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State), (Scope of modification powers under section (Modification of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State)), (Procedure etc relating to modifications under section (Modification of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State)), (Information and advice), (Conditions of gas transporter licences for conveyance of hydrogen), (Secretary of State directions to the GEMA) and (Repeal of Part);”.

This amendment provides for the new clauses that are intended to form a new Part inserted after Part 2 to extend to England and Wales and Scotland.

Amendment 170, in clause 277, page 243, line 17, at end insert—

“(ba) section (Power to modify Gas Act 1986 in relation to hydrogen);”.

This amendment provides for NC72 to extend to England and Wales and Scotland.

Amendment 174, in clause 277, page 243, line 22, at end insert—

“(h) sections (Great British Nuclear), (Crown status), (Great British Nuclear’s objects), (Financial assistance), (Secretary of State directions and guidance), (Annual report), (Annual accounts), (Transfer schemes), (Transfer schemes: compensation), (Transfer schemes: taxation), (Transfer schemes: provision of information or assistance), (Reimbursement and compensation in connection with designation) and (Pension arrangements in connection with Great British Nuclear);”.—(Andrew Bowie.)

This amendment means that the new clauses relating to Great British Nuclear extend to England and Wales and Scotland.

Clause 277, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 278

Commencement

Amendments made: 171, in clause 278, page 244, line 7, at end insert—

“(ba) sections (Key definitions for Part), (Designation), (Designation: procedure), (Revocation of designation), (Grant, extension or restriction of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State), (Applications for grant etc of gas transporter licence), (Modification of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State), (Scope of modification powers under section (Modification of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State)), (Procedure etc relating to modifications under section (Modification of gas transporter licence by Secretary of State)), (Information and advice), (Conditions of gas transporter licences for conveyance of hydrogen), (Secretary of State directions to the GEMA) and (Repeal of Part);”.

This amendment provides for the new clauses that are intended to form a new Part, to be inserted after Part 2, to come into force two months after Royal Assent.

Amendment 172, in clause 278, page 244, line 9, at end insert—

“(ea) section (Power to modify Gas Act 1986 in relation to hydrogen);”.

This amendment provides for NC72 to come into force two months after Royal Assent.

Amendment 123, in clause 278, page 244, line 10, at end insert—

“(ea) section (Principal objectives of Secretary of State and GEMA);”.

This amendment provides for NC52 to come into force two months after Royal Assent.

Amendment 133, in clause 278, page 244, line 12, at end insert—

“(ga) sections (Electricity support payments for energy-intensive industries) and (Levy to fund electricity support payments);”.

This amendment provides for NC53 and NC54 to come into force two months after Royal Assent.

Amendment 131, in clause 278, page 244, line 16, at end insert—

“(l) section (Convention on Supplementary Compensation for Nuclear Damage: implementation power).”.

This amendment provides for NC55 to come into force 2 months after Royal Assent.

Amendment 175, in clause 278, page 244, line 16, at end insert—

“(l) sections (Great British Nuclear), (Crown status), (Great British Nuclear’s objects), (Financial assistance), (Secretary of State directions and guidance), (Annual report), (Annual accounts), (Transfer schemes), (Transfer schemes: compensation), (Transfer schemes: taxation), (Transfer schemes: provision of information or assistance), (Reimbursement and compensation in connection with designation) and (Pension arrangements in connection with Great British Nuclear);”.—(Andrew Bowie.)

This amendment means that the new clauses relating to Great British Nuclear come into force 2 months after Royal Assent.

Clause 278, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 279

Short title

Amendment made: 17, in clause 279, page 244, line 29, leave out subsection (2).—(Andrew Bowie.)

This amendment removes the privilege amendment inserted by the Lords.

Clause 279, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title

[Andrew Bowie]

I beg to move amendment 11, in title, line 3, leave out “industrial”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 10.

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[The Chair]

Not yet—in a few minutes. I call Alan Brown.

[Alan Brown]

Thank you, Mr Sharma. I echo the thanks to you as Chair, and to the other three Chairs. Special thanks go to the Clerks, particularly those in the Public Bill Office. It is amazing how what I think is a simple, two-line email request becomes a full page of amendments. I thank them particularly for helping me to get new clauses 90 and 91 sorted on Monday. That diligence is appreciated, although apparently not by all Government Members.

I thank the Doorkeepers. It is a remarkable skill to have the patience to sit here in these Committees and listen to the often dry debate. I find that listening to politicians is quite tedious at times—[Hon. Members: “No!”] Okay, but it is a special skill, so thanks to the Doorkeepers.

The Bill has been welcomed on a cross-party basis. As the shadow Minister said, from our perspective there are still some outstanding issues, which hopefully we can iron out on Report. Let us get going.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill, as amended, accordingly to be reported.