House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]
Debate between Viscount Trenchard and Lord Cormack(6 years, 8 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Viscount Trenchard
I thank my noble friend for his advice, but the amendment has been moved and I wish to speak to it.
Lord Cormack
This really is a classic case of wasting the Committee’s time. The noble Lord, Lord Grocott, has made it plain that he accepts the amendment and therefore no further debate needs to be had. My noble friend Lord Trenchard can doubtless read his speech against another amendment.
Viscount Trenchard
I well understand that the noble Lord is very deserving of his place. I have the highest regard and respect for his contribution to your Lordships’ House and to its proceedings. All I wish to make clear is that hereditary Peers should also be considered an independent element because they do not owe their presence or their right to sit in this House to prime ministerial patronage.
Lord Cormack
I am very grateful to my noble friend. Will he tell me whether he takes the Whip? Will he tell me how many times he has been moved to vote against the Government during his time here?
Viscount Trenchard
As my noble friend is well aware, I take the Whip. I have also voted against the Government on a number of occasions. I think the first time I voted against an amendment was in connection with the War Crimes Bill. At the time the Law Lords were present in your Lordships’ House and, as has been noted today, I also agree that your Lordships’ House has suffered from their removal. I was persuaded by the arguments put forward by several noble Lords at that time that the War Crimes Bill was an inappropriate piece of legislation. That was the first occasion on which I defied the Whip.
Viscount Trenchard
The wording of Amendment 2 is as printed on the Marshalled List:
“Page 1, line 2, leave out subsection (1) … The House of Lords Act 1999 is amended as follows”.
Subsection (1) says:
“Section 2 of the House of Lords Act 1999 … is amended as follows”.
Does that satisfy the noble Lord?
Viscount Trenchard
My noble friend has already interrupted me once. I would like to continue.