Road Vehicles (Powers to Stop) Regulations 2011

Viscount Simon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Bradshaw]

My Lords, I have some experience of what is proposed in the regulations because for six years I worked in Northern Ireland, where VOSA’s equivalent had to use stopping officers; if policemen had been used, they would have become targets for terrorists. What is proposed in these regulations worked in Northern Ireland and I believe that it is sensible to extend the provisions here. Indeed, I have been surprised that it has taken successive Governments so long to wake up to this.

If, like me, you have experience of roadside checks, you will know that some of them are extremely expensive to mount. They are not just a matter of one man pulling a lorry off the road. Often 10 agencies are involved in checks, which might cover drugs, ill treatment of animals, customs fraud or immigration fraud—a whole range of things is covered by these checks. They are very expensive to organise and at the moment, if a check is mounted and the policeman is called away to other duties or does not show up, the whole process is frustrated because nobody can stop a lorry or a coach to send it to the inspection centre. I very much welcome these regulations and can only wish them well. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, made it clear in his remarks that it would be possible for VOSA officers to stop other vehicles.

I suggest that traffic censuses might also be considered. They do not need a policeman; they just need somebody with a yellow jacket on to organise the thing. I presume that even when the police have stopping officers there is an occasional person who offends and does not stop, but there are plenty of means of identifying those people and bringing them to justice. I fully support the proposed changes.

[Viscount Simon]

My Lords, in these times of policing budgets, I wonder whether chief constables will be persuaded to let VOSA work completely independently of roads policing officers and rely on it to make routine checks on vehicles, thereby releasing their officers from such requirements. I acknowledge the fact that the regulations refer only to commercial vehicles, but could they be extended to all vehicles in time? I do not know. Will this be used by chief officers to obtain large savings being targeted at policing?

It is well known that some commercial vehicles are used for criminal activities. If VOSA is the only body inspecting such vehicles to examine their roadworthiness and the police are not there, criminals will get away with all kinds of things. A trained police officer can examine the vehicles and their drivers in more detail while there are still road policing officers qualified so to do, but their expertise may well be hit if chief officers rely on VOSA and VOSA alone. What will happen if a VOSA stopping officer comes across a driver who is obviously drunk or wanted for a criminal offence?

I wonder, also, how VOSA stopping officers will be trained in appropriate driving and related techniques. Will they be trained by the police? Even with such advanced training, am I correct in assuming that, other than using their powers to stop a commercial vehicle, they will comply with the law and that they will not be able to use exemptions in relation to exceeding speed limits or other matters enforced by police officers? I assume that they will not be permitted to have blue lights. What will be their method of stopping a vehicle?

Does VOSA have a budget within the spending review to meet the expectations of providing, training and equipping the stopping officers to provide the required services every day of the year and at all hours? I hope so, because there are already problems with VOSA setting targets and, when those are met, simply stopping the work that it does. That could result in VOSA weighing a number of vehicles and then not weighing any others for the rest of the month because that target had been met. Currently, VOSA officers are not there at night or weekends unless on a special operation. That must not be a reason for the police to remove resources and to leave it to VOSA, as VOSA does not have the continuous responsibility throughout every day of the year that the police have.

Relying on VOSA to take over some of the roads policing operations—I declare that I am an honorary member of the Police Federation of England and Wales roads policing central committee—is fraught with problems. It used to be so simple: a police officer only. But now it seems that it could be anyone—a Highways Agency traffic officer, VOSA, who next? I do not expect the Minister to reply to my concerns today, but I would be grateful if he would write to me in due course and I hope that he will forgive me for raising these matters, some of which are not strictly related to this legislation.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, the two noble Lords who have spoken have raised some exceedingly pertinent questions. I knew that we would benefit from the experience of the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw. He has carried out what has often looked like a one-noble-Lord campaign on certain aspects of the entry of foreign lorries into this country and the difficulties that have arisen from their compliance with the law. I was interested to hear about his experience in Northern Ireland. Such is one’s preoccupation with the legislation that obtains generally across the United Kingdom that it comes as a bit of a shock when one realises that part of it relating to traffic is not UK-wide legislation at all but, because of the police dimension, applies only to England and Wales. I therefore very much support this instrument, which extends the issues to Scotland and Northern Ireland.

My noble friend Lord Simon has addressed a number of the questions that I would otherwise have articulated at some, no doubt boring, length. It is incumbent on the Minister not to write to my noble friend but to answer, so far as he is equipped to do so today, the very important point about who exercises the powers to stop and for what offences. I very much approve of the extension of the offences in the regulations, but they are all traffic offences. My noble friend Lord Simon probably picked up the reference made by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, to what might have obtained in Northern Ireland and he asked about other illegalities that the driver or others responsible for the lorry might be guilty of and be likely to be charged for. I presume that powers are not to be given in relation to those offences. If they are, that should have been stated in the regulations. However, I take it that the instrument is about traffic regulations and the regulation of trucks and lorries—that is, big vehicles. We know that the road haulage industry is pleased to see a tightening up of these issues, because it does not want to be besmirched by road hauliers who give the others a bad name when accidents occur in circumstances where it is clear that the law has been infringed.

However, what greatly exercises the British road haulage industry and all of us who take an interest in road transport in the United Kingdom is the enormous increase under the single market in the number of foreign trucks coming to the United Kingdom. It has been predictable but nevertheless it has carried on apace in the past decade with the significant economic growth across Europe. The minor grievance that we have is that these trucks have large tanks that are loaded with less expensive fuel on the other side of the Channel and are then able to travel huge distances on British roads without contributing to taxation because the fuel has been bought elsewhere. Of more concern to us all is that some of these trucks do not meet European standards on maintenance and equipment. Any accident involving a heavy lorry will cause concern in a locality, but it is bound to exercise people a great deal more when it involves a truck that comes from a considerable distance beyond these shores.

Of course, we very much support these regulations. In fact, they are overdue. However, I hope that the Minister will give reassurance about the identification of those carrying out the stopping exercise. Authority cannot be in question when there is a truck that is 44 tonnes against an individual who is standing by the side of the road. The authority either works or the individual officers are in danger. There must be clear identification and I want to know what is guaranteed on that. I particularly want the Minister to address whether the list of traffic offences in the regulations is what the stop will be organised for. It would be a different matter if we went on to other issues. Will the Minister say how that will impact on the role that the stopping officers play?

We understand the necessity of economising on police time, which is why the initial changes in the Police Reform Act were made, but that has to be consistent with a proper authorised road for the VOSA people so that they are protected in their job and can discharge it fully. The Minister has a number of questions that he needs to address.