Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Enforcement Regulations 2024.

Debate between Lord Elliott of Ballinamallard and Lord de Clifford

Tuesday 5th November 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Elliott of Ballinamallard (UUP)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for giving me the opportunity to speak here. I welcome the Minister to her place. I declare an interest as a farmer in Northern Ireland; we heard some mention of Northern Ireland. I suppose I have a few queries around these regulations.

One of my concerns is how it will be managed, with animal welfare being a devolved issue in both Scotland and Wales. Will that cause any complications with these regulations, because quite often we find that devolved institutions are very precious and protective of their own rights? I am just concerned that it will fall between two stools.

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, has already asked whether the farmer or haulier will be responsible when there is a check and an inspector looks at the issues.

I am also curious about journey log records. The regulations mention applicable guidance that will focus on changes to the application process for journey logs, especially the need to provide corroborating evidence on the purpose of the export. I am wondering what level of evidence will be required to corroborate that with the journey log, because quite often that can be manipulated. We have heard some instances of concern around export to Northern Ireland and how that may provide extended journeys that are not covered within the legislation.

The next point I am curious about is animals that are being transported from Northern Ireland to Great Britain; will they be required to have exactly the same journey logs? Will the same record-keeping system be required for them and will the corroborating evidence be the same as that required in other parts of Great Britain?

Those are just a few of the queries that I have on these regulations; I know that the debate on the main legislation has already taken place. I just have some concerns that we may find that some issues drop through loopholes and may not be fully accountable to the authorities that look over the regulations.

[Lord de Clifford (CB)]

My Lords, I also welcome this statutory instrument and the detail of it. A lot of my points have already been expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble Lord, Lord Trees. It is certainly very important from a farming point of view—I represent vets who work with farmers—and on the ability to export breeding stock in the long run, and with all respect to the bluetongue outbreak.

I also note that the equestrian side of it needs to be addressed in due course. We welcome that, so I will not go into any more detail on that.

Live exports to Northern Ireland were just addressed by the noble Lord. The time limit for exports of sheep et cetera from Scotland to Northern Ireland has been extended, because there is no direct ferry route from Scotland to Northern Ireland due to the ferry regulations. Is Defra going to monitor the number of live exports from England to Northern Ireland, and likewise from Northern Ireland back to England? That is important to ensure the numbers are tracked correctly.

Furthermore, when animals arrive in Northern Ireland, who is going to monitor what is in place, as requested by the RSPCA? Is Defra going to monitor that, as well as the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland?

I will further emphasise the final point of the noble Lord, Lord Trees: we would welcome, for improved animal welfare, a review of the current journey times within Great Britain.