Ceasefire in Gaza
Debate between Baroness Winterton of Doncaster and Karen Bradley(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Madam Deputy Speaker
Let me first take the point of order from the Chair of the Procedure Committee.
Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your guidance. My understanding from the advice I have seen is that Standing Order 31, whereby the motion is put first, did not apply because there were two amendments. If there is now only one amendment, surely we should revert to Standing Order 31.
Madam Deputy Speaker
I thank the Chair of the Procedure Committee for her point of order, but if the Government amendment is not moved, we revert to the amendment from the Labour party and that amendment has been moved. If it is passed, the SNP motion is amended and then the Question is put on the SNP amendment.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I am going to take a point of order from the Chair of the Procedure Committee. I gently suggest that right hon. and hon. Members restrain themselves. I think the Chair of the Procedure Committee may have something to share with us about what she is looking at, at Mr Speaker’s request, I believe.
Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) is correct that in the precedent there was a Conservative amendment to a Liberal Democrat Opposition day motion, but there was no Government amendment, and that is the difference. As there is no longer a Government amendment, I am confused about why we are not returning to the order of precedence set down in Standing Order No. 31.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Because of Standing Order No. 31, I am bound to take the Labour party amendment first and then move on to the SNP motion. That is all the advice that I have received, and I am sure when the hon. Lady—
Voting by Proxy (Amendment and Extension)
Debate between Baroness Winterton of Doncaster and Karen Bradley(2 years ago)
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Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
Let me start by thanking my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House for finding time for the debate. It is very welcome that time is provided in the House for us to debate these matters properly. A habit had been developing of making such debates “nod or nothing”, which did not give Members an opportunity to have their say about the important matters which govern how we best represent our constituents.
As my right hon. Friend said in her opening remarks, proxy voting is a relatively new procedure for the House. It was initially introduced in 2018, but, as my right hon. Friend said, it was in May 2019 that that the pilot scheme for proxy voting during baby leave was introduced following a report from our predecessor Committee, chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker). The current Committee, which I now chair, reviewed the pilot scheme and produced a report in September 2020, making the baby leave scheme permanent.
During that process, we were acutely aware of calls to extend proxy voting to other areas, but we wanted to ensure that the review focused on the way in which the proxy scheme worked for those on baby leave—a very “known” event which is very public. People are very aware that their Members of Parliament, or their spouses, are having babies. I think that that has improved this place, and made it a much more welcoming environment for new parents.
At the time we issued our report in September 2020 we were in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic, and at that same time the House agreed that proxy voting should be extended for matters of illness or being unable to attend this place due to the coronavirus. At that point, it was a widely used measure. For very good reasons, Members were not expected to be in the Division Lobby. That was absolutely right, because it would not have been a safe place for them. A very difficult process of voting with social distancing was introduced, and it was quite right that proxy votes were available to pretty much anyone who wished to use them by the end of the pandemic. I think there was a point when only about 14 Members had not taken up a proxy vote.
I want to reassure any Members who are concerned that we are going to start down that route again that that is not what this scheme envisages. This will be a much more restrictive scheme which we do not envisage being used by more than a small number of Members at any one time. However, it was clear from all the evidence that we took that, for those Members who need it, the scheme will be the most valuable way to enable them to represent their constituents.
I see that the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Amy Callaghan) is here, and I know she is going to contribute to the debate at some point. Hers was one of the most overwhelming pieces of evidence given to the Committee. She said that representing our constituents and being able to have our votes recorded was an incredibly important part of the democratic process, and that it cannot be right in a modern Parliament that wants to give open access to everybody if Members feel unable to do that or if they feel pressured to put their health in jeopardy in order to come into this place and vote.
I am pleased that the Government have tabled this motion. I want to make a point about confidentiality, because that is something that I am nervous about. I am not going to say that I am not concerned about it. We toyed with this issue on the Committee: how can we ensure that someone going through a deeply personal and private experience can have the confidentiality they need when taking up this scheme? It is clear that we have to ensure that there is transparency to constituents around voting, but that transparency could impact on people’s personal situations.
The first point is that nobody needs to take up the opportunity. If Members do not wish to take a proxy vote, they do not have to do so. I am pleased that pairing will still be available, even though it relies on trust and on the relations between the usual channels working. It is an important part of the way we conduct our business. For any Member who is away for just a short amount of time, pairing is a good way to deal with these matters. We heard evidence that if a Member was unable to attend for a few weeks, their constituents did not notice, but there was strong evidence that after a certain period of time, they did start to notice that their Member was not voting. It is a matter for each of us how we represent our constituents and what we are prepared to say in the public domain, but the evidence we received from the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire, my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) and many others who had gone through or were going through long-term medical conditions was overwhelming: they said that the availability of this option, for those who wished to take it, was incredibly important. So I am pleased that that is going to be the case.
The hon. Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) asked about the consideration given by the Committee to eligibility—I feel like I am answering a statement here. We came to the view that a scheme should be designed to allow the Speaker the final say on the provision of medical evidence for someone needing to take time away from this place in order to get the treatment they need and have the best chance of recovery from whatever their condition may be. It should be noted that the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority allows Members of Parliament an additional budget for staff if they are away for three months or more. I would have thought that is a very good example, as three months feels about the right amount of leave needed to qualify for a proxy. Clearly, it will be on a case-by-case basis. We did not want to dictate which conditions qualify and which do not, but we were keen to make sure there is flexibility for Mr Speaker.
The hon. Lady also asked about time for the review, and my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight), who is a previous Chair of the Procedure Committee—I served under him—is right. I am slightly concerned about the timeframe for the review, because I would not want so few Members to take up these proxies that we do not have evidence on which to operate. The Leader of the House is extraordinarily pragmatic and helpful, and I am sure she will work with me if it is felt that the pilot needs to be extended slightly before the Committee reviews it. We will, of course, find time for whatever review is required.
Finally, we deliberately decoupled any parliamentary absence from the baby leave proxy when it was introduced, so that no new parent felt pressured to come to this place. They were allowed to have proper time with their newborn, in the way that all new parents should have, but we learned during coronavirus that there are many occasions when it is important for Members to be able to contribute to debates and then to exercise their vote via proxy, both for keeping in touch and for recovery. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford that being able to come in for a few days at a time, to be able to take part in debates while still receiving treatment, and still to be able to go home and recover, is incredibly important.
I finish by thanking the other members of the Procedure Committee and my fantastic Clerks, who worked incredibly hard on this report. Without them, we would not have had the superb report that is before the House today. I fully support the motion, and I hope the House will agree to it unanimously.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the SNP spokesperson, Deidre Brock.
56. Office of Tax Simplification (membership)
Debate between Baroness Winterton of Doncaster and Karen Bradley
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving notice of his point of order. May I first say how sorry I am to hear about the illness of the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire? I know that the whole House will want to join me in sending her our best wishes.
I do of course understand the frustration of any Member who because of illness is unable to be here and to vote, but the right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the rules of the House state that proxy votes are not available in those circumstances. That decision is a matter for the House rather than the Chair. However, the right hon. Gentleman is, I hope, also aware that the Procedure Committee is looking into this issue— indeed, I understand that the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire gave oral evidence to the Committee yesterday. No doubt the House will read its conclusions with a great deal of interest when they are available, but I have to confirm that the current situation regarding proxy votes is as I have set out.
Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I advertise the fact that the Procedure Committee is taking evidence on this matter, that we did take oral evidence from the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire yesterday, and that we will be keen to hear the views of all right hon. and hon. Members?
Point of Order
Debate between Baroness Winterton of Doncaster and Karen Bradley(3 years, 10 months ago)
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Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker, may I seek your advice? Further to the exchange between the Leader of the House and the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) on the business statement earlier, I worry that the House may have been left with an unduly pessimistic impression of the prospects for further debate on the Government’s motion on virtual participation. All that would be required, as I understand it, is a motion from the Leader of the House governing debate and decision on the motion and any amendments. May I ask whether it is usual for the Government not to seek to conclude a debate of their own initiation in this way? Failing that, Madam Deputy Speaker, can you think of any other steps that could be taken to give the House a greater say in how it conducts its own affairs?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I am grateful to the right hon. Member, who is Chair of the Procedure Committee, for her point of order and for giving me notice of it. I am sure that she will appreciate that I cannot give a running commentary on how the Government manage their business in the House, including when a debate is started but not brought to a conclusion. If the Government do wish to bring the motion back to the Floor of the House, I am sure the Leader of the House, in his usual courteous way, will give the House proper notice, and I am sure the Front Bench will have heard the point the right hon. Lady has made about the issue of virtual proceedings.
On the right hon. Lady’s last question, perhaps that is something that the Procedure Committee itself might like to look into. The only other thing I can say, of course, is that there are business questions on the business statement on Thursday, and that might be a way that she could raise it. I am not sure whether she has done a report, but the House can always debate Select Committee reports, so that may also be something that she might like to consider.
We will have a three-minute suspension to allow the safe exit and entry of right hon. and hon. Members.
Points of Order
Debate between Baroness Winterton of Doncaster and Karen Bradley
Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I welcome the Prime Minister’s announcement earlier that he intends to extend the proxy voting scheme to those who are shielded and unable to attend the Chamber to vote in person? However, I must say that I have some concerns about the way the announcement has taken place and how it will be implemented. May I therefore ask you whether you can obtain this information from Mr Speaker? First, what advance notice did he have of the Prime Minister’s intention to make this announcement today? Can he confirm that the current pilot scheme for proxy voting—let us be clear that the proxy voting scheme we are currently using for maternity and paternity leave is a pilot—will expire in July 2020, that it has a number of structural issues that the Committee I chair is examining, and that it is not suitable to be extended to several dozen Members on the present basis?
Would you ask Mr Speaker whether he will agree to convene a meeting between the Leader of the House, me and the Clerk of the House so that we can discuss these matters urgently? Can Mr Speaker give the House an assurance that he will not allow any scheme to be implemented that obliges Members, from any part of this House, to disclose personal information about their health? Would you also ask Mr Speaker whether he would confirm that the Government have not, to date, provided any response to the three detailed reports on these issues produced by my Committee, one of which was to satisfy the impossibly tight timescale demanded by the Government for the introduction of remote voting, which they then ended up using for a mere eight days?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I thank the right hon. Lady for her point of order; there were a lot of questions in there and I will do my best to respond. Obviously, I cannot answer on what discussions the Speaker has or has not had with members of the Government. I should also say that the Chair is not responsible for Government responses to the reports produced by her Committee, although, obviously, I hope that those responses will be forthcoming—I am sure those on the Treasury Bench will have heard that. I can confirm that the current scheme for proxy voting expires in July 2020 and that, as I am sure she will appreciate, the whole House will be interested in hearing the Procedure Committee’s expert views on the scheme. I know that her Committee has made a great many contributions to the debate so far, which have been extremely helpful. I am sure she knows that the Speaker has taken a very close interest in ensuring that voting in this House is carried out effectively, but that key to his response has been that it has due regard to the safety of hon. Members and of staff—I can assure her that he will continue to do this. As for a meeting between herself, the Leader of the House and the Speaker, I am sure the Speaker will respond positively to the requests she makes, as I know he has fairly regular meetings with her in any case.
Business of the House
Debate between Baroness Winterton of Doncaster and Karen Bradley
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call Karen Bradley, Chair of the Procedure Committee, who I think is audio only. You have no more than two minutes.
Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con) [V]
I am afraid I am audio only, having had a broadband failure. I will not repeat much of what has already been said, but as Chair of the Procedure Committee, I ask the Government to take great care in reviewing the Committee’s recommendations. We have written to the Speaker, and we will produce a short report on this matter, and ask the Government to consider it. As I said during the urgent question, this is a matter for the House. The House must be in agreement with the way that it conducts business. You, Madam Deputy Speaker, and Mr Speaker are servants of the House, and we must do what the House asks us to do. I ask the Leader of the House to please reflect on that.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call Tommy Sheppard to speak for no more than two minutes.
Point of Order
Debate between Baroness Winterton of Doncaster and Karen Bradley(5 years, 8 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Karen Bradley)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Before I proceed to the main business, I wish to clarify the comments I made earlier today to the House during Northern Ireland questions in response to a question raised by the hon. Member for Belfast South (Emma Little Pengelly), which I believe may have been open to misinterpretation.
At oral questions, I referred to deaths during the troubles caused by members of the security forces. The point I was seeking to convey was that the overwhelming majority of those who served carried out their duties with courage, professionalism, integrity and within the law. I was not referring to any specific cases, but expressing a general view. Of course, where there is evidence of wrongdoing it should always be investigated, whoever is responsible. These are of course matters for the police and prosecuting authorities who are independent of Government.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I thank the Secretary of State for her point of order.