Information for Backbenchers on Statements
Rosie Winterton Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
This is an historic debate, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) for chairing the Backbench Business Committee, and thus helping to bring forward the subject of this debate. It is an excellent subject, because it goes straight to the heart of the relationship between Parliament and the Executive—and inevitably, as hon. Members have already pointed out, the relationship between Parliament, the Executive and what are nowadays the 24-hour media.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Hollobone—[Laughter.] Sorry, not Hollobone. It is Mr Hollobone, the Member for—[Interruption.] Kettering. Mr Kettering, the Member for Hollobone—brilliant. He made a very good opening speech, and, as the current Deputy Leader of the House said before the election, Ministers should remember that
“their first responsibility in terms of information is to the House and nowhere else”.—[Official Report, 3 July 1998; Vol. 315, c. 657.]
The Leader of the House also once said that leaks were a
“short circuit of the system”.—[Official Report, 12 July 1999; Vol. 335, c. 28.]
It is also true that Members have claimed that all Governments have been guilty of bypassing Parliament. I am being entirely helpful and non-partisan when I say that the Government have managed to pack some spectacular examples into their 10 short weeks of power. As the hon. Member for Kettering said, that is not a good start, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) said, we need to remind ourselves of such issues.
I merely want to help hon. Members—particularly the hon. Member for Kettering, as he puts together his resignation list. The Home Secretary was forced to come to the House to apologise for giving the media a statement on the immigration cap that was meant for the House. The Secretary of State for Education briefed his plans for schools to the media, then, as we know, was forced to apologise for inaccuracies; I think there were five revised lists in the end. The Secretary of State for Health briefed the media on the NHS operating framework and on NHS reorganisation. Downing street seems to have briefed the entire Queen’s Speech to the media. Meanwhile, the Secretary of State for Justice briefed on prison reform and the Chancellor of the Exchequer briefed on spending cuts, financial reform and specific figures in the Budget. Today, an urgent question meant that a Treasury Minister had to come to the House to explain the structure and approach of the Office of Tax Simplification.
Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con)
Has the right hon. Lady got a dossier on the number of leaks from the previous Labour Government? Does she have a number to compare with?
Ms Winterton
I do not have an exact number, but I do not think that the previous Government gave a statement meant for the House—an actual, written statement—to the media in advance. Furthermore, the leaks of the specific Budget figures and the entire Queen’s Speech were pretty spectacular.
All that shows that there is much work to do. That is why I welcome the motion, and the fact that the Leader of the House has indicated his support. The motion rightly refers to the action that you, Mr Speaker, have taken to make it clear to Ministers that they should make statements to the House before they are made elsewhere. Right hon. and hon. Members’ welcome for that has already been reflected in the debate.
The motion also refers to the ministerial code and the rules of the House. I am sure that the Procedure Committee will want to look at whether the code and the relevant House rules reflect the reality of the pressure of the 24-hour media. That issue has already been touched on. How can we ensure that Ministers are not tempted to try to fit in with the media timetable rather than the parliamentary timetable? Some interesting suggestions have been made about meeting earlier, but unless we can get Ministers out of the “Today” studios, we will have to start meeting at about 5 in the morning. We need to consider that issue closely, but I certainly welcome the fact that the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) has said that the Procedure Committee will get full scale on to the matter.
We should also face the fact that there are those in the media who think that they are perfectly capable of cross-examining Ministers, so what is all the fuss about Parliament? However, as the motion says, it is essential for our democracy that Back Benchers—and, I would add, Opposition Front Benchers—should be able to hold the Government to account and quiz Ministers on what Government policy will mean for their constituents. I am not thinking of how journalists might quiz Ministers; Members have knowledge of how policies will translate at constituency level.
The fiasco over Building Schools for the Future was properly exposed only because Members of Parliament—on both sides of the House—looked closely at the numerous lists that were produced, and in many cases spotted the mistakes. That was an important part of the role of Members of Parliament in coming forward to Ministers and asking and probing them about things. I predict that exactly the same will happen in relation to some of the changes proposed in the NHS when they are examined closely in practice at constituency level. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) said, these are huge policy changes that will hugely affect our constituents, and Members rightly want the opportunity to quiz Ministers as soon as they are announced.
With the Conservative-Liberal Democrat Government, it is even more important for us to hear announcements here, because we have a coalition agreement that is pulling together policies from two manifestos, sometimes with a bit more put in, sometimes with a bit left out, so it is often unclear whether a policy was one that people voted for or one that was part of the coalition agreement. That adds a new dimension to what we are discussing.
We welcome the idea that the Procedure Committee should look into whether the rules of the House could be better used or changed to ensure that Ministers make statements here. Following the speech by the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire, I have great faith that he is going to look into that thoroughly, perhaps even with the help of my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann).
I hope that the Committee can also consider the issue of Ministers making statements in the House, but then retracting them outside without necessarily coming back to the House to do so. Earlier today, we heard my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills raise a point of order about an example of this. In the House, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Prime Minister accused the directors of Sheffield Forgemasters of being unwilling to dilute their shareholding and said that that was one of the reasons why the Government cancelled the £80 million loan. However, the Deputy Prime Minister has since written to the chief executive of Forgemasters acknowledging that he knew that the chief executive had offered to dilute his shareholding. It seems that we have no ability to ensure that either the Deputy Prime Minister or the Prime Minister must come to the House to withdraw their previous comments. Perhaps the Committee could provide guidance on that.
I welcome the support that the Leader of the House has given to the motion. I hope that in the meantime, before the Procedure Committee makes any recommendations, he will impress on Ministers the need to come to the House before announcements are made elsewhere. I hope that this excellent debate will emphasise to Ministers that Back Benchers—and, for that matter, Opposition Front Benchers—regard this as a crucial issue for Parliament. It is not just about keeping MPs happy; it is about a vital way for us to represent our constituents. In that spirit, we should all thank the Backbench Business Committee for making this the subject of its first debate, and thank the hon. Member for Kettering for the motion before us.
Business of the House
Rosie Winterton Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business?
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
The business for the week commencing 19 July will include:
Monday 19 July—Second Reading of the Academies Bill [Lords]. At 10 pm the House will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates.
Tuesday 20 July—Proceedings on the Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill, followed by conclusion of proceedings on the Finance Bill (Day 4); to follow, the House will consider a motion relating to information for Back Benchers on statements. The subject for that debate was nominated by the Backbench Business Committee.
Wednesday 21 July—Proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 1).
Thursday 22 July—Proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 2).
The provisional business for the week commencing 26 July will include:
Monday 26 July—Conclusion of proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 3).
Tuesday 27 July—Business to be nominated by the Backbench Business Committee. The House will not adjourn until the Speaker has signified Royal Assent.
Colleagues will also wish to know that, subject to the progress of business, the House will rise for the summer recess on Tuesday 27 July and return on Monday 6 September.
The House will rise again for the conference recess on Thursday 16 September and return on Monday 11 October.
I should also like to inform the House that the business in Westminster Hall for 22 July will be:
Thursday 22 July—A debate on national lottery reform.
Ms Winterton
I thank the Leader of the House for the business and very much welcome the first debate that the Backbench Business Committee has initiated, on ministerial statements. I am very hopeful that it will provide an opportunity for Back Benchers to examine closely the right hon. Gentleman’s leak prevention strategy.
As the Leader of the House knows, we Opposition Members had high hopes that he would be able to solve the mystery of why Conservative and Liberal Democrat Secretaries of State seem addicted to leaking major announcements to the media rather than announcing them to the House. I had such confidence in the right hon. Gentleman’s investigative powers that I even likened him to Sherlock Holmes; after the events of this week, however, I am afraid that it is more a case of Inspector Clouseau than Sherlock Holmes.
I fear that the leak prevention strategy will have to be consigned to the dustbin of history unless drastic action is taken. After all, the Secretary of State for Health gave at least three interviews to the media, including an appearance on “The Andrew Marr Show”, before coming to the House to announce his £80 billion gamble with the NHS. This morning, we heard the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills making a major televised speech on the future of higher education policy. He did make an apology, it is true—not for ignoring the House of Commons, but for the fact that details of his policy had been leaked. He shrugged that off by saying that leaks are part of public life.
When the Labour Government launched a review of student finance, there was extensive involvement of the Opposition, including an agreement on the review’s terms of reference. We have seen none of that in the run-up to today’s announcement. The Business Secretary is trying to say that the policy is not really new, but the coalition agreement said explicitly that the Government would wait for the Browne report before reviewing future policy. Surely the future of student finance should be about what is best for students and universities, not what keeps the peace in the coalition.
Can the Leader of the House say when the Business Secretary will come here to tell us exactly what his proposals mean? Will he undertake to remind Secretaries of State that Evan Davis, James Naughtie and Sarah Montague, admirable though they are, are not Members of Parliament, and that John Humphrys is not the Speaker? It would be handy if Cabinet members understood the distinction between a BBC studio and the Chamber of the House of Commons.
I am not sure whether the Leader of the House is expecting to have to make time in the House for any more apologies over the next week or so, but perhaps he will consider dividing Prime Minister’s questions into 15 minutes for answering questions and 15 minutes for apologising for all the misleading statistics that the Prime Minister has been using and all the questions that he has been dodging. That could include, for example, apologising for using figures from the Office for Budget Responsibility, which Sir Alan Budd said was inappropriate. The Prime Minister could apologise for telling Parliament that violent crime had doubled under Labour, especially as Sir Michael Scholar, chair of the UK Statistics Authority, has made it clear that there is no basis whatever for that assertion. Today’s figures show that crime is at its lowest level since records began, thanks to the Labour Government.
The Prime Minister could also apologise for dodging the question—not once, but three times—on whether the Government were going to abolish the two-week cancer guarantee. Can the Leader of the House tell us when the House can expect a proper answer, in this Chamber, on that guarantee—not in interviews to the media or in unattributable briefings from Downing street, but in a clear statement to Parliament about a guarantee that he surely recognises saves lives? Patients, doctors and nurses need to know whether the guarantee is in place and they deserve an apology from the Prime Minister because he has kept them in the dark about it.
Sir George Young
There is quite a lot there to respond to. On the Backbench Business Committee, I welcome the debate that is taking place on Tuesday, but I have to say to the right hon. Lady that it is no thanks to the Labour Government that we are having that Committee at all. At the end of the last Parliament, they consistently refused to make the time available to establish the Backbench Business Committee. If we are in apology mode, it would have been appropriate for her to have apologised for the failure of the outgoing Labour Government to set up that Committee.
I welcome that debate and hope that it will be well attended. There is a serious issue for the House about how we get the balance right between what Ministers can say outside the House and inside the House. The motion rightly refers not only to the past few weeks, but to a period that includes the last Labour Government. I welcome the proposal in the motion that the process should be looked at by the Procedure Committee to see whether we can come up with a sensible concordat that is acceptable to the House and liveable with by the Government, and that enables us to have a set of rules that we can all observe.
On health, if the right hon. Lady looks at the coalition agreement, she will see that much of what was in the Health Secretary’s statement on Monday was in that agreement. The proposals had been been mentioned in Health questions and in debates in the House. There was no leak of the health White Paper.
As for the Business Secretary, he went out of his way to explain that there was no policy change. I watched his speech on television, and he made it absolutely clear that he wanted Lord Browne, who is conducting a review, and whose terms of reference were set up by the outgoing Labour Government, to include the option of a graduate tax. There has been no policy announcement. When the Government have a policy on how higher education is funded, the House will be informed and there will be an opportunity to cross-examine the relevant Secretary of State. However, there has been no policy announcement whatsoever on the funding of higher education.
I think that the right hon. Lady will find that Sir Michael Scholar has had an opportunity to admonish those on both sides of the House about misuse of crime statistics. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is considering how crime statistics should be collected and published in future, and we are working with the UK Statistics Authority and others to consider the matter carefully. I welcome the reduction in crime—a trend that started in 1995 and has been replicated in many other western European countries—but the level of crime is still too high, and we must drive it down.
The right hon. Lady asked about the cancer guarantee. The revision to the NHS operating framework in June removed targets on the NHS that were without clinical justification. The cancer waiting time targets are clinically justified and have been retained.
Business of the House
Rosie Winterton Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business?
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
The business for the week commencing 12 July will include:
Monday 12 July—Proceedings on the Finance Bill (Day 1).
Tuesday 13 July—Proceedings on the Finance Bill (Day 2).
Wednesday 14 July—Motion relating to police grant report, followed by motion to approve a Statutory Instrument relating to the draft Terrorism Act 2006 (Disapplication of Section 25) Order 2010, followed by motion to approve a European Document relating to the European External Action Service.
Thursday 15 July—Proceedings on the Finance Bill (Day 3).
The provisional business for the week commencing 19 July will include:
Monday 19 July—Second Reading of the Academies Bill [Lords].
At 10 pm the House will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates.
Tuesday 20 July—Proceedings on the Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill, followed by proceedings on the Finance Bill (Day 4), followed by business nominated by the Backbench Business Committee.
Wednesday 21 July—Proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 1).
Thursday 22 July—Proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 2).
I should also like to inform the House that the business in Westminster Hall for 15 July will be:
Thursday 15 July—A debate entitled “Reform of the Law of Defamation”.
Ms Winterton
May I thank the Leader of the House for the business and say how pleased we are to have him back, knowing his commitment to protecting the rights of Members of the House? Although he seems increasingly isolated in that quest, he remains our leading man. I use that term because, as it happens, it is exactly how he was described by The House Magazine, in a marvellous account of his rise to power and his duties as Leader of the House. It includes some fascinating reminiscences about the Thatcher years. For example, he says:
“When we won power in 1979 we were less prepared than today.”
Mr Speaker
Order. This is absolutely fascinating stuff, but it suffers from the notable disadvantage that it bears absolutely no relation whatever to the business of next week or the week after. I know that the right hon. Lady, who is a dextrous performer, will now speedily move on to matters of current interest, namely the business of the House next week and the week after.
Ms Winterton
I certainly will, Mr Speaker. One of the matters on which I wanted to question the Leader of the House with reference to his duties was the “serious training” that he said shadow Ministers had been given in order for them to be able to move quickly to implement some of the policies in the coalition agreement. I think that that “serious training” explains the speed with which the Thatcherite cuts in public service are being implemented. However, the interview does not tell us whether the duties of the Leader of the House include arranging training for Liberal Democrat Ministers enabling them, for instance, to explain during next week’s debate on the police grant report how cutting £125 million from this year’s policing budget will not affect police numbers—especially given that the Liberal Democrat manifesto stated that there would be 3,000 extra police on the streets.
Will the Leader of the House ensure that the Minister for Police explains in next week’s debate what statistics the Prime Minister was using yesterday when he said that violent crime had doubled, given that the UK Statistics Authority has said that it is misleading the public to use anything other than the British crime survey as a measure of long-term crime trends? The survey shows that, in fact, there has been a 41% reduction in violent crime since 1997.
May I also ask whether the “serious training” referred to by the Leader of the House involves training in how to make apologies? If so, I am afraid that the Education Secretary needs a refresher course. On Monday, he released his first list of schools that would no longer be refurbished or rebuilt. He released that list to the media. By Tuesday afternoon he had released a third list. My hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) raised the matter with you, Mr Speaker, and last night the Education Secretary was forced to come to the House to apologise. He arrived with a fourth list, but said he
“would be grateful if hon. Members would ensure that any information they had that pointed to inaccuracies was put to me”.—[Official Report, 7 July 2010; Vol. 513, c. 492.]
Naturally, Labour Members rose to the challenge and pointed out that Monkseaton high school in Tynemouth, which was listed as having been cancelled, had in fact been opened last year, and had been visited by the one and only right hon. Member for Witney (Mr Cameron) when he launched the Conservative local election campaign. That is completely chaotic, and suggests a hurried and unreliable process.
Ms Winterton
If the hon. Gentleman has any suggestions for the Secretary of State, I am sure that the Secretary of State will listen to them.
Will the Leader of the House ask the Education Secretary to come to the House and, as a minimum, publish the criteria that were used to decide which school building projects would be cancelled, so that parents and teachers can see for themselves whether their school building programme has indeed been cancelled by any kind of reasonable and fair process? That is a minimum; but the fact is that the Education Secretary should simply withdraw the list altogether, and think again about destroying the hopes and aspirations of at least 700 communities around the country. Surely it is obvious that this whole process has become discredited, as has the Education Secretary himself—not least because he keeps telling the House that funding had not been agreed for these schools. He continued to say that in the House even after the permanent secretary had issued a letter saying that it was categorically not the case.
Finally, last week I asked the Deputy Leader of the House to place in the Library the Treasury paper on the 1.3 million people who were going to be thrown out of work because of the Budget. Neither that nor the advice given to the former coalition Chief Secretary on the future jobs fund has appeared. That meant that we had an Opposition day debate yesterday on jobs and unemployment with those two crucial documents withheld from us. How can the Leader of the House possibly justify that when the coalition agreement specifically refers to openness and transparency in government? Will he now place these documents in the Library as a matter of urgency?
Sir George Young
I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for her questions, and I hope that the The House Magazine might one day carry an article entitled “Leading lady”, in which she features. I got on very well with Lady Thatcher—so well that she appointed me to her Administration not once, but twice.
On the police grant order, there will still be an increase in the resources available to the police even after that order, which will be debated next Wednesday. The right hon. Lady knows full well the reason for that order: in the words of the Labour Chief Secretary, “There is no money left.”
On crime, it is important that the actual crimes recorded by the police are used alongside the statistical analysis of the British crime survey. Indeed, that was the measure most often used by Labour Members when they criticised our record in government. We have quoted the only statistics that are available on recorded crime across the period, but I can tell the right hon. Lady that the Home Secretary has written to the shadow Home Secretary stating that we are reviewing how crime statistics should be collected and published in future, and we will make further announcements in due course.
On the subject of apologies, both the Home Secretary and the Education Secretary have had the decency to come to this House and apologise when things have gone wrong. We have had no apology from the Labour Benches, however, for one in five young people being unemployed, and we have had no apology for Labour selling the gold at the lowest level for some 20 years, or for leaving us with the worst budget deficit in Europe.
The right hon. Lady will have seen the question the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) asked about the school list, to which my right hon. Friend the Education Secretary replied:
“It is my belief that the list we have placed in the Vote Office is accurate.”—[Official Report, 7 July 2010; Vol. 513, c. 492.]
He went on to say that he understood that double-checking was now taking place within the Department. My right hon. Friend also set out the criteria used to make the decisions at some length in his statement on Monday, and he was questioned about them for an hour and a quarter. The right hon. Lady should remember, however, that the reason for the statement was the over-commitment of resources by the outgoing Secretary of State, who acted irresponsibly by over-relying on end-year flexibility when the resources simply were not there.
We had a debate on unemployment yesterday, and the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), pointed out that over the next few years there will be an increase of 1.5 million in the number of people working.
Business of the House
Rosie Winterton Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
Will the Deputy Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business for the week.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of the House of Commons (Mr David Heath)
My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House has given notice to the shadow Leader of the House and to you, Mr Speaker, that he is attending a memorial service this morning. I will therefore be announcing the business and answering questions on his behalf. The business for the week commencing 5 July will include:
Monday 5 July—Motion relating to the Clear Line of Sight project, followed by opposed private business named by the Chairman of Ways and Means for consideration.
Tuesday 6 July—Second Reading of the Finance Bill.
Wednesday 7 July—Opposition day [3rd allotted day]. There will be a full day’s debate on Government support for jobs and the unemployed. This debate will arise on an Opposition motion.
Thursday 8 July—General debate on defendant anonymity.
The provisional business for the week commencing 12 July will include:
Monday 12 July—Proceedings on the Finance Bill (day 1). At 10 pm the House will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates.
Tuesday 13 July—Proceedings on the Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill followed by proceedings on the Finance Bill (day 2).
Wednesday 14 July—Motion to approve a statutory instrument relating to counter-terrorism, followed by motion relating to police grant report, followed by motion to approve a European document relating to the European External Action Service.
Thursday 15 July—Proceedings on the Finance Bill (day 3).
I should also like to inform the House that the business in Westminster Hall will be:
Thursday 8 July—A debate on energy security.
Ms Winterton
I thank the Deputy Leader of the House for the business statement. I think it is in order to welcome him to his first business questions. I know that he has a long record of campaigning for respect for Parliament. Indeed, I was looking through his contributions to the last Parliament and noticed that he said Ministers should remember that
“their first responsibility in terms of information is to the House and nowhere else”.—[Official Report, 3 July 1998; Vol. 315, c. 657.]
I am sure that he was horrified when the Home Secretary was forced to come to the House to apologise for giving the media the statement on the immigration cap, which should have been given here.
Now at least the Home Secretary realised that this had been a step too far, but will the Deputy Leader of the House undertake to tick off the following offenders in respect of whom we would like to set up an early release of information scheme? First, there is the Defence Secretary for briefing on the departure of Sir Jock Stirrup. Secondly, there is the Secretary of State for Education for briefing on plans for schools. Thirdly, there is the Secretary of State for Health for briefing on the NHS operating framework. Then there is the entire Downing street staff for briefing on the whole Queen’s Speech. Then there is the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who has achieved a hat-trick here for briefing on spending cuts, financial reform and the Budget. Then there is the Secretary of State for Justice for briefing on prison reforms. I hope that the Deputy Leader of the House can assure us that he has checked with the Foreign Secretary to ensure that nothing has been said to the media this morning that should have been said to the House first. I am sure that the Deputy Leader of the House will seize this opportunity to take up the cause for Parliament, as I know he would hate to be accused of saying one thing in opposition and another thing in government.
Speaking of that, I was leafing through the Conservative-Liberal Democrat programme for government only this morning and came across the section on Government transparency. It is well worth a read, especially the bit that says:
“We will create a new ‘right to data’ so that government-held datasets can be requested and used by the public”.
Can the Deputy Leader of the House tell us whether that right extends to Members of Parliament, particularly when they are asking for figures such as those produced by the Treasury which showed that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been warned that measures in the Budget would lead to 1.3 million people losing their jobs?
Given the Prime Minister’s extraordinary performance yesterday, when he refused even to acknowledge that those figures existed, will the Deputy Leader of the House place the Treasury documents in the Library? Will he also ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make a statement to the House telling us when he first saw those documents, and why he did not include them in his Budget statement? In that statement, will the Chancellor of the Exchequer be able to confirm whether there was any contact between Ministers and their Office for Budget Responsibility before the publication of their job forecasts yesterday?
Will the Deputy Leader of the House tell us whether there will be any report to the House on the Cabinet’s visit to Yorkshire? I noted that during that visit the Prime Minister was quizzed on how the Government’s protestations of support for manufacturing tallied with the withdrawal of the loan to Sheffield Forgemasters. Perhaps the Deputy Leader of the House will also explain why the Leader of the House of the House said last week that
“the Deputy Prime Minister is meeting Sheffield Forgemasters tomorrow in his constituency.” —[Official Report, 24 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 433.]
I understand that no such meeting was planned, or took place. I can only imagine that the Leader of the House was misled by the Deputy Prime Minister. I am sure that the Deputy Leader of the House will want to clarify exactly what happened, so that Members can be clear about what support is actually being given to important manufacturing companies such as Sheffield Forgemasters.
Can the Deputy Leader of the House also help us out by telling us whether there will be a statement on the future of the Tenant Services Authority? Apparently the Housing Minister has called it “toast”, but the Chief Secretary has said that abolishing it would put the finances of housing associations at risk. It would greatly assist the House, and Opposition Members in particular, to know that there is absolutely no sense of disagreement between Conservative and Liberal Democrat Ministers. We certainly wish to be assured that the Liberal Democrats are 100% behind all Conservative policy, including putting up VAT, putting people out of work, and the huge cuts that are to be made in public services.
Mr Heath
The shadow Leader of the House has asked me to restate a position that I stated many times in opposition, and I have no hesitation in doing so. It is entirely clear, not only to me but in the ministerial code of conduct, that announcements of substantive changes in policy should be made to the House in the first instance, and I know perfectly well that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House brought that to the attention of the Cabinet yet again only this week. You, Mr Speaker, made it very clear in your statement yesterday, and it is our clear intention that it should be the case. I have to tell the shadow Leader of the House that occasionally there will be mistakes—[Interruption.] Even Government Departments sometimes make mistakes, and that is obviously what happened in the case of the Home Office announcement last week. What happened was that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary came to the House to apologise for that mistake, and that is the right way of dealing with it.
It is important that we make sure that changes of policy are properly represented to the House, but I say gently to Labour Members that there is very little point in raising as points of order or at business questions issues raised by Ministers that are clearly set out in existing policy in the coalition document. I am so pleased that the shadow Leader of the House bothers to read that document. If it is policy set out in the coalition document, it should be no great surprise that Ministers adopt the policy and are prepared to speak about it. Therefore, it is not the case that that is an inappropriate way of addressing political issues.
I shall now deal with the other issues that the right hon. Lady raised. She mentioned an issue relating to housing associations. That is important and I shall take the matter back to the Departments and ask whether it is possible for a clear statement of the position to be given—we will ensure that that is the case.
The right hon. Lady asked about the position on the employment figures and the expectations set out by a variety of economists on what might happen. I have to say that I do not always have great faith in what economists predict; nevertheless this is an important issue. What I do have faith in is the newly established Office for Budget Responsibility, which is independent of Government and has set out the figures. I thought that the Opposition supported it. I thought that they saw it, as we do, as being a gold standard of accurate information presented to the House, but they prefer to bang on about figures that they want to choose instead. There will be an Opposition day debate next week, when the Opposition will choose the matters that we will be debating. So she asks for an opportunity to raise these issues with Ministers and she will have the opportunity to raise them with Ministers. Finally, I have to say to her that the figure that was given—the 1.3 million losses that she cited—was coupled with 2.5 million increases in employment in the very same breath. By my simple arithmetic that makes a 1.2 million increase, and the fact that Labour Members cannot do that simple sum explains to me why this country is in the position it is.
Select Committees (Membership)
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
I thank the Deputy Leader of the House for tabling this motion proposing changes to the maximum number of members of Select Committees. As I think that this is the first time that we have faced each other at the Dispatch Box, I also take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his appointment as Deputy Leader of the House.
The report on rebuilding the House identified the importance of the inclusion of the minor parties and independents on Select Committees and we are grateful for the work that has been done through the usual channels to address that issue. It is now right for the House to consider the motion so that the minor parties and independents can be accommodated on those Committees, thereby ensuring their participation.
Business of the House
Rosie Winterton Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business?
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
The business for the week commencing 28 June will include:
Monday 28 June—Conclusion of the Budget debate.
Tuesday 29 June—Opposition day (2nd allotted day). There will be a full day’s debate on local government financing. This debate will arise on an Opposition motion.
Wednesday 30 June—General debate on the progress and prospects in energy efficiency.
Thursday 1 July—General debate on global poverty.
The provisional business for the week commencing 5 July will include:
Monday 5 July—Motion relating to the clear line of sight project, followed by the Chairman of Ways and Means has named opposed private business for consideration.
Tuesday 6 July—Second Reading of the Finance Bill.
Wednesday 7 July—Opposition day (3rd allotted day). There will be a debate on an Opposition motion. Subject to be announced.
Thursday 8 July—General debate on defendant anonymity.
Ms Winterton
I thank the Leader of the House for giving us the business.
It is important that today we take the opportunity to acknowledge that the Leader of the House has been working extremely hard this week to fine-tune his leak-prevention strategy. I certainly detected his guiding hand in the reports of the unprecedented move by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ask journalists to sign a written legal agreement that they would only take photographs of him and not ask any questions, just in case he let the cat out of the bag about anything in the Budget. That was a magnificent move, not least because it vindicated the work that the Opposition have been putting in week after week, making helpful and constructive suggestions about how to get the Leader of the House’s leak-prevention strategy up to scratch. Sadly for the Chancellor, the media refused to co-operate and, frankly, things have been going downhill ever since.
The Secretary of State for Education announced his plans for free schools to the papers and came to the House only because the Opposition tabled an urgent question. The Secretary of State for Health announced to the media the biggest shake-up of the NHS operating framework at 9.25 on Monday morning, but a written ministerial statement did not appear until 12.40. As for the Budget, most of it, including detailed figures, was in the Sunday papers—my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) made a point of order about that this week.
Obviously, an investigation of what went wrong will be in order, but Labour Members are quietly confident that the Leader of the House and Deputy Leader of the House can become the Government’s Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson. They might like to have as their prime suspect the ventriloquist’s dummy, the Chief Secretary, who tells us very little when he comes to the House, but may be rather more garrulous with journalists as the Liberal Democrat mouthpiece for Conservative policies. Perhaps the Leader of the House could put in the Library the advice that is being given to the Cabinet about making announcements to the House before making them to journalists.
Why is there no oral statement today from the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on changes to the state pension age, which mean that men in their 50s will lose on average £8,000 of state pension?
Last week, the Leader of the House stated that he had set out in response to a written question how the Government would inform Parliament of the numerous reviews and commissions that are taking place. It is not clear from his reply where the review took place that led on Monday to the Prime Minister’s saying, in response to an intervention from me, that the Sheffield Forgemasters loan was a piece of “financial engineering”. Those remarks have caused huge concern among industrialists in Sheffield and south Yorkshire. The implications of the Prime Minister’s words are that he is backing Japanese and Korean industrialists against UK manufacturing. I urge the Leader of the House to provide more information about the reviews’ terms of reference.
May we have a general debate on today’s findings by the Institute for Fiscal Studies? The IFS shows that, under Labour’s plans, the poorest 10% would have been virtually untouched, but under the Chancellor’s Budget, their incomes are cut by more than 2.5%. Even the Government’s appointed public sector pay commissioner has said that there is no logic to the brutish cuts that the Chancellor proposes. Will the Leader of the House ask the Prime Minister himself to lead the debate on the IFS findings so that he can explain to the House why he said yesterday that it was a fair Budget?
I thank the Leader of the House for granting the general debate on defendant anonymity. That is very welcome.
Sir George Young
I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for her last comment. I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) on her success in the election for the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee.
I am afraid that the right hon. Lady is wrong about the written ministerial statement on the NHS operating framework. It was issued on time, just after half-past nine, and the document, which was the subject of the point of order, was deposited in the Library at 9.34 am. All the normal procedures were followed in respect of that document.
It is indeed the case that more urgent questions are being granted. I listened to your important speech to the Hansard Society, Mr Speaker, when you said:
“I have also deliberately rescued the urgent question, a device which compels a Minister to come to the House to face a question on a matter which has suddenly arisen”.
The previous Government also experienced that change of approach. We welcome it and are happy to come to the House to answer urgent questions when they are granted.
On Sheffield, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills dealt with that point extensively in his speech in the Budget debate yesterday, and I understand that the Deputy Prime Minister is meeting Sheffield Forgemasters tomorrow in his constituency.
So far as welfare is concerned, the right hon. Lady will know that on Monday the Budget debate will be opened by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. He will deal robustly with the points that she has made. She will also know that, for the first time, the Red Book contains a whole section on the impact of tax and welfare changes on households, from page 63 all the way to page 69. I am sure that she will have read the conclusion about child poverty on page 69, which says:
“Steps have been taken to protect low income families with children from the impact of these changes, by freezing the rate of Child Benefit to partly fund above indexation increases to the Child Tax Credit. This ensures that the overall impact of all modelled Budget changes on child poverty…is statistically insignificant.”
Let me say to the right hon. Lady that of course I take seriously the question of leaks, as I have said before. The House should be the first place to hear of any major changes in Government policy, and we also take seriously the suggestion of any leaks in advance of statements. However, on her general point, the House would take the Opposition more seriously, first, if they exhibited just some remorse for the mess that they left this country in, and secondly, if they indicated how they would fill the £50 billion gap in the public finances that they left us to inherit.
Business of the House
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House give us the business for next week?
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
The business for the week commencing 21 June will include:
Monday 21 June—General debate on the strategic defence and security review.
Tuesday 22 June—My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will open his Budget statement.
Wednesday 23 June and Thursday 24 June—Continuation of the Budget debate.
The provisional business for the week commencing 28 June will include:
Monday 28 June—Conclusion of the Budget debate.
Tuesday 29 June— Opposition day (2nd allotted day). There will be a debate on an Opposition motion, subject to be announced.
Wednesday 30 June— General debate on the progress and prospects in energy efficiency.
Thursday 1 July—General debate on global poverty.
Hon. Members will wish to be reminded that the House will meet at 11.30 am on Tuesday 22 June.
I should also like to inform the House of business in Westminster Hall:
Thursday 1 July—A debate entitled “Supporting carers to have a life outside caring”.
Ms Winterton
I thank the Leader of the House for setting out the forthcoming business.
If there are any statements to be made next week, can we make sure that we do not have a repeat of last week’s discourtesy to the House, when General Sir Jock Stirrup’s departure was announced in the Sunday papers, and by the Secretary of State for Defence on television, but was not even mentioned in the Prime Minister’s statement to the House on Monday? That is hardly the way to treat the Chief of the Defence Staff.
If there are not any planned statements, could the Leader of the House check with the Cabinet whether there ought to be, given that this week the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who is becoming something of a serial offender in this respect, again had to be summoned to the House because once again he wanted to make a key announcement, but not to Members of Parliament? We understand that the Chancellor had suggested that the new Chief Secretary to the Treasury might have an airing, but thought better of it on account of the Chief Secretary being a bit nervy under fire. We are quite pleased that the Chief Secretary is to turn out today.
As it turned out, the Chancellor was announcing yet another commission. Just so that we know whether any decisions remain that are likely to be made by Ministers as opposed to being outsourced to a commission or review, will the right hon. Gentleman place details in the Library of all the commissions that the Conservative-Liberal Democrat Government have set up, all the reviews that have been announced, the number of people who are involved in the reviews and commissions, their terms of reference and their cost? Will he give us a pointer as to whether the Government need so many Ministers to carry out the business of government, given that there might not be a lot left for them to do after all the commissions and reviews have been set up?
I see that the Leader of the House spoke at the Hansard Society last night about altering party conferences. Obviously, the Conservative and Liberal Democrat conferences could be merged and simply called the Conservative party conference.
Mr Speaker
Order. I am sorry to interrupt the shadow Leader of the House. Doubtless the subject is genuinely scintillating, but it is not a matter of Government responsibility. I hope that the right hon. Lady might want to move on to something that is.
Ms Winterton
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I simply wanted to ensure that if the Leader of the House intends to refer us to the Procedure Committee, as his speech suggested, there will be discussions with all the parties before that is done. I certainly have not been consulted and, as far as I know, nor have other parties. Will he ensure that consultation happens?
On anonymity for defendants in rape cases, we are now getting increasingly confusing and contradictory comments from the Home Secretary, the Justice Secretary and, indeed, the Prime Minister. Three weeks ago, the Government pledged to give defendants anonymity. Two weeks ago, the Prime Minister appeared to change that position to one whereby the accused would be named only if prosecutors brought charges, and this week the Justice Secretary blamed the Liberal Democrats, saying that they had adopted the policy in opposition. There was further confusion at questions to the Minister for Women and Equalities today.
Ministers keep saying that they want a proper, considered discussion, but it is extremely difficult for hon. Members to contribute to any discussion when it is completely unclear which Minister is speaking for the Government. The policy seems to be the victim of hasty negotiations, but the real victims will be women who have been raped. The need for a proper debate on the subject has now become urgent, and I ask the Leader of the House to give us an assurance that he will allocate one of the Government’s general debates—we have a lot of them at the moment—to it.
Sir George Young
I am grateful to the right hon. Lady. On the Ministry of Defence, Sir Bill Jeffrey and Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup have announced to their staff that they will retire in the autumn. Both stayed on longer than they originally intended to see things through over the election period and to get through the strategic defence and security review.
The Government have made many statements—nine since the Queen’s Speech. We have been very open with the House, and about five, perhaps even seven statements have been made this week. The Speaker has indicated that he wants more urgent questions, and that is a useful way to hold the Government to account and keep the House informed.
The Chief Secretary is robust under fire and can give as good as he can take.
I have answered a written question on reviews, referring to the coalition agreement, which sets out the Government’s key reviews and priorities. It is then up to individual Departments to provide information about their reviews.
In my compelling speech last night to the Hansard Society, I said that perhaps it was time for an open and serious debate, in which hon. Members of all parties should be engaged, about sitting hours and sittings in September, to ascertain whether we have the right configuration and whether we are making the best use of our time.
Anonymity for defendants in rape cases is a serious issue, about which there is a wide range of views. The Government are determined to drive up the conviction rate for rape and ensure that those who are convicted get serious sentences. I agree with the right hon. Lady that it is right for the House to debate the matter seriously and calmly, and I will do what I can to provide for such a debate.
Backbench Business Committee
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
Let me welcome you to the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker, congratulate you on your election and say how much we are looking forward to your chairmanship over the years. I also thank the Leader of the House for setting out the Government’s motion on changes to the business of the House.
I want to start by reiterating the important point that my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) made, which is that it would have been genuinely helpful if there had been more consultation on the motions before they were placed on the Order Paper. If there are further proposals in future, I hope that we will be able to have such consultation.
The creation of the Back-Bench business committee is another important step in the implementation of the recommendations of the cross-party Committee on Reform of the House of Commons, which was chaired by Tony Wright, as the Leader of the House said. It is also thanks to the former Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), that we are now having this debate, as it was he who agreed to the setting up of that Committee. We have already elected our Select Committee Chairs by secret ballot, which was another step forward, and I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all right hon. and hon. Members who were successful in that election.
Chris Bryant
Perhaps we should add Robin Cook to the list of people who should be thanked for the election of Select Committee Chairs, because it was he who brought the idea to the House. Unfortunately the Whips at the time conspired to ensure that it did not happen, but now we have finally got it. However, the one Committee that we have not yet elected a Chair for is the European Scrutiny Committee. Does my right hon. Friend hope that that Committee will be set up soon? Europe is moving on apace, but at the moment we have no means of scrutinising it at all.
Ms Winterton
My hon. Friend is right on both counts. It is important that we pay tribute to Robin Cook for everything that he did to make many of the reforms happen. He is also right that we should set up the European Scrutiny Committee, which performs an extremely important task.
There is no doubt that we need the proposed reforms to give more power to Back Benchers. I am sure that there will be a lively debate on the proposals today—indeed, it has already started. I will be brief, as I know that many Back Benchers want to contribute, but I want to raise a few issues. Obviously it is important that the Back-Bench committee timetables as much non-governmental business as possible. However, I seek an assurance from the Deputy Leader of the House when he replies to this debate that the operation of the Back-Bench business committee will not impact on either the number or the timetabling of Opposition days.
I was pleased that the Leader of the House was able to assure us that there would indeed be Government business to debate during the September sittings.
Mr David Hamilton
Would my right hon. Friend also consider allowing the House to rise in June? The children of Scottish Members are on holiday in July, and that is already causing great difficulty for us.
Ms Winterton
Perhaps my hon. Friend would like to raise that point during the debate tonight.
At the moment, the new Government legislation is not ready to be debated in September, but I hope that the Deputy Leader of the House will be able to assure us that we shall not have a repeat of the situation that we have at the moment, in which about three out of every four days are allocated for general debates. The public rightly expect value for money from Parliament, and it is important that we should be able to debate as much Government business as possible, in the form of Second Readings, at that time.
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)
With regard to value for money, I am really glad that there is to be a programme of work in September. Does my right hon. Friend think that it would be helpful, however, if the austerity Government could tell us the cost of the cancellation of the contracts for the work that normally takes place on this estate during the summer recess, as well as the cost of any penalty clauses that might be invoked in relation to work that cannot be completed because of the September recall? In that way, we could evaluate the costs and benefits of meeting in Birmingham in September, rather than meeting on a building site.
Ms Winterton
I know that my hon. Friend is keen for the House to consider seriously his suggestion of meeting in Birmingham. I hope that the Deputy Leader of the House will be able to tell us what estimates have been made of the additional cost to the taxpayer of meeting in September, perhaps taking into account my hon. Friend’s point about possible breaks in contracts.
I recall that the last time we debated and voted on September sittings—I think it was in 2006—the current Leader of the House voted against them, but the Deputy Leader of the House voted for them. I hope, therefore, that we shall not have just half a Government sitting here in September, and that we shall get the full double act—the full Monty, if I can put it that way. Will the Deputy Leader of the House give us that assurance when he winds up the debate? The proposal for extra time for voting on deferred Divisions is also a sensible one, and I am sure that it will be welcomed by all Members.
It is important that Back Benchers have as much time as possible to debate these proposals, so I shall leave it at that, but I hope that the Deputy Leader of the House will be able to answer some of these points later.
Business of the House
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Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House give us the business for next week?
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
The business for the week commencing 14 June will include:
Monday 14 June—General debate on UK policy on the middle east, followed by general debate on emerging economies.
Tuesday 15 June—The House will be asked to approve motions relating to the establishment of a Back-Bench business committee, September sittings, private Members’ Bills, deferred Divisions, Select Committee sizes and sittings of the House.
Wednesday 16 June—Opposition day [1st Allotted day]. There will be a full-day’s debate on Government support for industry. This debate will arise on an Opposition motion.
Thursday 17 June—General debate on building a high-skilled economy.
The provisional business for the week commencing 21 June will include:
Monday 21 June—General debate on strategic defence and security review.
Tuesday 22 June—My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will open his Budget statement.
Wednesday 23 June—Continuation of the Budget debate.
Thursday 24 June—Continuation of the Budget debate.
I should also like to inform the House that the business in Westminster Hall will be:
Thursday 24 June—A debate on the future of local media.
May I offer my congratulations to the new Deputy Speakers who were successful in the ballot this week: the hon. Member for Chorley (Mr Hoyle), my hon. Friend the Member for Ribble Valley (Mr Evans) and the right hon. Member for Bristol South (Dawn Primarolo)? May I wish them every success in carrying out their important duties and pass on the thanks of the House to those they replaced for the undoubted service they offered over many years? May I also pass on my congratulations to those Members who you, Mr. Speaker, have just announced as having been successfully elected as Chairs of Select Committees? This is undoubtedly a landmark in the history of the House. I warmly congratulate those who have secured the approval of their colleagues to undertake the vital task of scrutinising Government Departments. This is an important reform—part of a process of transferring power from the Executive to the House, which I intend to progress in my role as Leader of the House.
Ms Winterton
I thank the Leader of the House for setting out the forthcoming business and I add my congratulations to the new Deputy Speakers and the new Chairs of Select Committees.
With regard to Tuesday’s business, the Government have today tabled proposed new Standing Orders on the new Back-Bench business committee. Frankly, however, no proper consultation took place with the Opposition on the detail of those before they were tabled. Would it not be right for the new Political and Constitutional Reform Committee, whose Chair has just been announced, to look at those before they are debated by the House? I hope the Leader of the House will give a detailed response to that.
Business questions always provide a good opportunity for the right hon. Gentleman to bring us up to speed on how his leak-prevention strategy is going. Last week, he said it was going splendidly, but I am afraid that I must draw his attention to what he might regard as a slight seepage rather than a leak, although it is nevertheless alarming. The BBC seems to have been told by “sources” that the Liberal Democrats are doing a deal with the Government so that they continue to receive Short money, which was designed specifically for Opposition parties. On top of that, the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) has been elected deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats. Many congratulations to him; he was here a minute ago. In his manifesto, he said
“For those departments where there is no Liberal Democrat minister, we should have a shadow secretary of state in the Commons… For those departments where there is a Liberal Democrat minister and a Conservative Secretary of State, then there should be a Liberal Democrat lead spokesperson in the Commons… For those departments where there is a Liberal Democrat Secretary of State, there should be a Liberal Democrat MP outside of government with particular responsibility for that department's business.”
There was a time, I believe, when the Tory and Labour parties agreed that the Liberal Democrats tended to say one thing but do another. This has taken that to a whole new level. The Liberal Democrats say that they are in opposition, but actually do government. The new deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats cannot have it both ways, and I hope that the Leader of the House can assure us that there are no such shenanigans going on with the Short money.
Will the Leader of the House ask the Justice Secretary, when he comes to the House for Question Time on Tuesday, to put right the comments made by the Home Secretary during the Queen’s Speech debate on Monday? As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the British crime survey, which is widely recognised as the most effective way of measuring long-term crime trends, shows that under the Labour Government crime fell by a third. Violent crime fell by 41%, burglary by 54%, and car crime by 57%. Will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Home Secretary to explain why she is still trying to avoid using the survey? Of course, the Tory party has form in this regard: the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) was rebuked by the chairman of the UK Statistics Authority for damaging public trust by manipulating crime figures. Not only is the Home Secretary in danger of misleading the House, but she is being very unfair to all those who worked so hard to reduce crime under the Labour Government.
I do not think the Leader of the House was in the Chamber to hear the Adjournment debate initiated by my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), who spoke eloquently and effectively about the Conservative-Liberal Democrat proposals for defendant anonymity in rape cases. The response of the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt), was frankly disappointing, and showed very little understanding of the message that he was sending to rape victims. He did say, however, that the Government wanted informed contributions, and would consider all the options before formulating the proposals.
Given that legislation is not ready in a number of cases, and that we are having a number of general debates, may I urge the Leader of the House to allocate one of the future general debates to discussion of this important issue? If the Government are serious about listening before the proposals are presented, I really cannot see why Government time cannot be allocated to it.
Sir George Young
I was disappointed by the right hon. Lady’s first request. She asked for the establishment of a business committee to be delayed yet further. The reason that the matter is on the Order Paper for next Tuesday is that the previous Government failed to make progress. We are honouring a commitment made in the last Parliament by me and by my hon. Friend the Deputy Leader of the House, to set up a Back-Bench business committee as soon as possible. Referring the matter to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee would simply redo the work of the Wright Committee, and would further delay the establishment of a committee on which I want to make progress. What we are doing is relinquishing the grip of the Executive on the agenda of the House, and giving Back Benchers the power and the time to schedule debates on the matters that they believe are important. When we reach the debate next Tuesday, I hope the House will seize the opportunity with both hands and make real progress with parliamentary reform.
On the right hon. Lady’s second point, there has been no leak. I make it absolutely clear that Short money is available to Opposition parties. The Liberal Democrats are a party of government and therefore Short money is not available to them. I have no ministerial responsibility for what the newly elected deputy leader of the Liberal party wants to do in rearranging the internal machinery of that party.
So far as the Home Secretary is concerned, I was present when she made a fantastic speech to wind up Monday’s debate, in which she dealt with all the issues regarding crime and crime statistics and set out some robust policies from the Government to deal with crime.
Finally, on the Adjournment debate, I was not present but I have read it. The issue is serious and we want to get things right. We agree entirely with the Stern review that serious consideration of the issue is needed, but there is ample time to debate it because no legislation on it is proposed for this Session. One of the objectives of setting up a Back-Bench business committee is to enable it to respond to requests for debates on important issues such as rape, so that they can be debated without the House continuing to be wholly dependent on the Government to find time to debate them.
Political and Constitutional Reform Committee
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Mr Heath
The hon. Gentleman wished me to answer his points before I had dealt with those of other hon. Members, and I am sorry that he had to be a little patient in that respect. He said that decisions have been taken, but Parliament takes decisions on legislation. Perhaps the key difference between this Administration and the previous one is that we want Parliament to take these decisions. It is for the Government to propose and for this House to dispose of those propositions. Therefore, it is not wrong in any way for the Government to be committed to a programme of government that is placed before this House for consideration. Both my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House and I are absolutely committed to ensuring that this House has the proper opportunities to have its say. That is the difference between how we do business and how the previous Government did it. I am unable to deal with the hon. Gentleman’s point about the Wright Committee, because that would be completely outside the terms of this motion. However, he will find that his questions on implementing the Wright Committee recommendations will be answered in the very near future.
Let me deal briefly with the other points raised, one of which related to costs. We know that it costs money to have Select Committees, but it is equally important that this House has the opportunity to scrutinise the decisions of every Minister of this House. Thus, this is a cost that we have to bear, but I must say to the hon. Member for Wellingborough that we have abolished a whole tier of Select Committees in the form of the Regional Select Committees, which were an unnecessary and expensive farce. We have got rid of them, so we have a little money in the bank, as it were, in terms of the cost of scrutiny.
I was asked whether the membership of this Committee would be appointed. No, it will be elected, like that of every other Select Committee; this is a perfectly normal Select Committee of the House.
Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
The Deputy Leader of the House is totally wrong to say that the abolition of Regional Select Committees will save any money that could be put to this new Committee. That is not true because the Regional Select Committees were served by staff who already worked on the Select Committees that were previously in place. I have inquired about this and he is wrong to say that there is any saving from the abolition of Regional Select Committees.
Mr Heath
It is an intriguing argument that however many Select Committees there were, they could operate and travel around the country at no cost to the House at all. That is an interesting argument, but not one for today, perhaps.
I was asked why the chairmanship of this Committee is to be Labour, and it was suggested that perhaps the wording should be “the official Opposition”. This was a decision of the House, and it decided that the Speaker should allocate the Chairs of the various Select Committees according to the proportion of Members in the House elected from each party. It was the Speaker’s decision—based, I am sure, on excellent mathematical principles—that this chairmanship should be allocated to the Labour party. Unless the House decides otherwise, it is not the Government’s position that the decision that the House has already taken should be changed.
On the time interval for nominations, that is for the convenience of the House. If the House does not like it, it is at liberty to say that it wants the full period for nominations, but I think that most want the Select Committees up and running at the earliest opportunity. They want to make sure that people have the opportunity to vote for the Chairs of all the Select Committees at the same time. They want to make sure that the best people, and not people who have been rejected for other chairmanships, put themselves forward for the Chairs in which they are most interested. I think that is the right way of doing things, but it is for the House to decide.
I think I have dealt with all the points that have been raised.