The Economy

Debate between Rachel Reeves and Kwasi Kwarteng

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)]

The Opposition welcome this opportunity to debate the state of the economy, the Chancellor’s record over the past two and a half years and the measures he has introduced in the autumn statement. Last Wednesday he came to the House and admitted that he had failed—failed to get the economy moving, failed to meet his borrowing targets and failed to listen to our advice and change course.

First, though, let us go back to the heady first months of this coalition Government—when they were still getting on, when they were fraternising in the rose garden. In the 2010 spending review, the Chancellor decided to implement a programme of unprecedented fiscal contraction. We said it was not the right time to cut demand, given that the economy was only just recovering from the global financial crisis, and that the cuts went too far and were being implemented too fast.

[Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)]

Is it not true that we are actually spending more than we were two years ago and that no real cuts have been made? What would the hon. Lady like to say about that?

[Rachel Reeves]

There is one particular area where the Government are spending more money, and that is welfare, on which they are spending £13.6 billion more during this Parliament, because more people are out of work or in part-time work and so receiving more tax credits. That is a sign of the Government’s failure, not of their success.

In the 24 months since the spending review, where have we got to? How much progress has been made? Is the Chancellor’s plan working? The verdict is in. We now know that borrowing and debt figures have been revised up for this year, for next year and for every year of this Parliament. The Government are borrowing £212 billion more than they planned. They said that five years of austerity would be difficult, but that it was necessary to support our economy, and they said that it might hurt, but that it would work. Well, it has not worked, but it has hurt, and we are no closer to clearing our deficit than we were two years ago. [Interruption.]

Jobs and Growth

Debate between Rachel Reeves and Kwasi Kwarteng

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

What the markets were looking at was the deficit. The hon. Lady may remember what happened to the gilt market as her party’s Government were being shunted out. The price of British Government debt rose and yields fell in direct anticipation of Labour leaving power. The markets made their own decision. In the last 18 months, the price of British Government debt—that is, the interest rates that we pay—has fallen. It has managed to remain at the same level, precisely because markets realise that the Chancellor and his team are doing the right thing in tackling the deficit. We have been told repeatedly that if we were to show any relaxation of our deficit reduction programme, the markets would dump our bonds and interest rates would rise, which would cause immense damage to the hon. Lady’s constituents as well as mine.

[Rachel Reeves]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that before the last general election—between January and May 2010—yields on Government bonds were falling and they have stayed at low rates since the general election? The markets did not know which party would win the election because the campaign was so close. Therefore, the hon. Gentleman cannot argue that those yields were falling in anticipation of an incoming Conservative Government, because nobody knew that.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

The yields were not falling in anticipation of a Conservative Government, but they were certainly falling in anticipation of the then Labour Government going out. Markets anticipate events—that is how people make money—and the markets had, in their wisdom, decided that Labour would not be re-elected. I assure the House that if Labour had been re-elected, the markets would have dumped British debt and we would be facing a much tougher interest rate environment than we currently face.

I always enjoy listening to the shadow Chancellor’s speeches, as they are very entertaining, and I enjoyed his speech today—I think one Member even mentioned vaudeville, which I think does vaudeville discredit. However, I was staggered by the shadow Chancellor’s assertion that the fact that we have low interest rates is somehow a reflection of our having a weak economy. That was an extraordinary claim. People in my constituency are very grateful indeed that we have low interest rates, because that enables them to pay their mortgage liabilities. It seemed extremely arrogant for a supposedly responsible politician to say on the Floor of the House that low interest rates were a bad thing, which was essentially what the shadow Chancellor was arguing. [Interruption.] He was suggesting that they were a symptom of a weak economy, which is a bad thing.

On the contrary, however, our low interest rates are a signal that the markets have confidence in this Government. They have absolute belief that the current Government are going to deal with the deficit that was created, almost deliberately, by the Labour Government. We in the House of Commons have to understand why this deficit arose, so we can explain that to the country. It was not just handed down to us by some Moses figure—although the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) probably thinks of himself in that way. It was not handed down from on high; rather, it was created by Governments and by the Members who then sat on the Treasury Bench, and it was created for the simple reason that they, in their arrogance, honestly believed that they had abolished boom and bust. We all remember those statements, and it is an arrogant misrepresentation of the past to suggest that they did not think that. The last Prime Minister believed that he had solved the key economic question of our time, but he was wrong, and it is as a direct consequence of his mistake that our Government have had to introduce the policies we are pursuing.

Many people will ask why we do not have a different plan. They will ask: “Why don’t you suddenly borrow and spend more money in the time-honoured Labour fashion?” That would be a road to disaster, however. It would create a massive lack of confidence and lack of credibility in the British Government’s programme, leading to the markets dumping our Government debt and our interest rates rising. It would lead to people in our constituencies having to face higher payments every month. They would be squeezed even more if we were not as focused and committed as we are to reducing the deficit.

I have tried to inject some reality into this debate. We have heard consistent denials from Labour Members, and we have heard no admission of guilt or wrongdoing and no ideas as to how we might get out of the situation we are in. We have also heard no real arguments to attempt to explain why what the last Labour Government did was right. Interestingly, no Labour Member has said in this debate, “We did a marvellous job; we gave you a golden inheritance.” I would grant them more credit if any of them would be bold enough to stand up and say that, but they will not do so. That is because, as everyone in this country knows, Labour is bereft of ideas, and it would be a disaster if we were ever to leave our future in its hands again.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Rachel Reeves and Kwasi Kwarteng

Tuesday 22nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)]

I have great concerns about what the Government have outlined today. First, international evidence shows that hasty cuts will derail growth. Secondly, by failing to set out a vision for the future, the coalition destroys our chances of rebuilding a balanced economy. Thirdly, the Budget’s measures will hit the poorest in society—those who can least afford the pain—hardest. I fear for my constituents in Leeds West and am worried about how they will fare in the months and years ahead.

On growth, it is clear from the Chancellor’s speech that he has chosen to ignore the harsh lessons of history—from Japan in the 1990s and the USA in the 1930s. Despite his talk of a plan for growth, as a result of today, we face the real prospect of a double-dip recession.

I wholeheartedly agree that the deficit needs to be cut, but the issue is whether it should be cut this year or next year, and the method of making those cuts. The surest way to bring down the deficit is to embed strong and sustainable growth, but we heard nothing about that from the Chancellor today. The Office for Budget Responsibility’s forecasts have revised growth downwards—after those presented only a week ago—by 0.1% this year and 0.3% next year, and an additional 100,000 people are due to go on the dole.

[Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)]

What does the hon. Lady think about the sovereign debt crisis in Greece, to which my right hon. Friend the Chancellor referred in his Budget statement?

[Rachel Reeves]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to address that issue. The debt-GDP ratio in Greece is two and half times that of the UK, and the maturity on UK debt is, on average, 13 years, compared with an OECD average of two to three years. In addition, the Greek economy remains in recession, while the UK is beginning to recover from a recession. We cannot take that recovery for granted, but our economy grew by 0.3% in the first quarter of this year, and we are beginning to emerge from recession.

The downgrades from the OBR reflect the fact that the cuts will stall the recovery and throw more people into unemployment. There are two ways to reduce the deficit: strong growth, or wielding the axe. The Chancellor has today chosen the latter, and the result will be, as we have seen from those forecasts, weaker growth, higher unemployment, more business failures, more home repossessions and a less competitive British economy. Instead of a strategy for growth, we have been given a strategy for austerity, cuts and pain for working people—the people whom I have been sent to Parliament to represent.

Industry (Government Support)

Debate between Rachel Reeves and Kwasi Kwarteng

Wednesday 16th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)]

This is the first time I have had the privilege of speaking while you are in the Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker, so I congratulate you on your appointment.

We are in a bit of a déjà vu situation. Labour Members cry about Tory cuts, yet they forget why the cuts have to take place. They are suffering from collective amnesia and forgetting that for the last 13 years they ran this country and the Government on the proposition that they had abolished boom and bust. The former Prime Minister, when he was Chancellor, openly boasted about that. There was a feeling that money would pour in—that there was an inexhaustible pot of gold to be drawn from. It reminded me of Aladdin, who rubbed the lamp and the genie appeared. Labour seemed to think that the genie would appear, they would ask for money and, magically, it would arrive.

[Rachel Reeves]

Does the hon. Gentleman remember that the financial crisis happened across the whole world? Does he believe that the Labour Government are responsible for the budget deficits in all those countries?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I remember that very well, but I would point out that, in the five years before the crisis that the hon. Lady speaks of, we were running completely needless deficits. We did not have to run those deficits; we did so because of the concerted attempt by the then Chancellor to expand the state and to keep spending money.

[Rachel Reeves]

Can the hon. Gentleman give us an example of when the Conservative party opposed our spending plans?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

During the 2005 election, we were—[Interruption]. If I may continue.

The general Aladdin’s lamp approach was shown to be absurd. As the then Government kept rubbing the lamp and the genie came out, they asked for money, but the genie suddenly became rather less giving. At one point, the genie—in form of the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne)—wrote a letter and said, “There is no money. We have run out of money.” The reason why we have done so is simply that we were spending too much.

I have a Methodist background. My mother is a Methodist lay preacher, and she would tell the Sunday school, which I attended, about the seven fat years and the seven lean years. Those hon. Members who know the Old Testament will remember that Joseph had a dream in which he dreamt of seven fat cows and then the seven lean cows. [Interruption.] This is not very complicated; it is quite simple actually, so please bear with me. I know that Labour Members have concentration problems sometimes. I am sorry—it was a long time ago. The pharaoh had the dream and he spoke to Joseph. [Interruption.] This is very important and interesting. He asked, “What does this mean?” and Joseph said very simply, “You will have seven fat years and seven lean years.” The whole point is that we are meant to save money in the fat years, so that we can spend it in the lean years. The Labour Government comprehensively failed to do that. They thought that the fat years would run indefinitely. They thought that they had abolished boom and bust.

The point of telling that simple story is to show comprehensively the reason for the cuts mentioned by the hon. Gentleman—I forget his constituency. [Hon. Members: “Sedgefield.”] I apologise; I was perhaps confusing him with another Member for Sedgefield. The hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) referred to them as Tory cuts, but the simple story of Labour’s failure to rein in Government spending in the boom is why we must make these cuts. They are not coming out of the blue or from savageness.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I am fully aware of those facts. The figures show that the ratio of our debt to GDP is 12%. That is higher than any other country in the west. [Interruption.] I am sorry; I stand corrected. The deficit-to-GDP ratio is the highest of any other country in western Europe and, indeed, in the western developed world.

[Rachel Reeves]

I am sorry to correct the hon. Gentleman again. He is right to correct himself—the deficit, not the debt, ratio is 12%—but is he aware that the deficit figure in Greece stands at 14%? Greece is, I believe, in the western world. Is he also aware that we went into the crisis with the second lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7?