Accident and Emergency Departments

Peter Bone Excerpts

Tuesday 10th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

The royal colleges have come up with a number of important and good ideas. I hope that the hon. Lady has seen from my announcement today that we are making some profound changes to address the underlying problems in A and E which incorporate much of their thinking, but there are other ideas. We will continue to engage closely with the royal colleges because they can give us a lot of help in ensuring that we get the right answer.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Wellingborough’s nearest A and E is Kettering general hospital, which is 30 minutes or more for most of my constituents to get to. However, the proposal for an urgent care centre at the Isebrook hospital in Wellingborough will allow 40% of those constituents to go locally and relieve pressure on Kettering. Is this the sort of thing that the Secretary of State wants to encourage?

[Mr Hunt]

I always try to support the ideas that come up from different parts of the NHS because people on the ground usually have the best ideas about what needs to be done, but when decisions cross my desk it is important that I consider the knock-on effect on other areas, and I get independent advice on that as well. I shall follow closely the proposal that my hon. Friend mentions.

Tobacco Packaging

Peter Bone Excerpts

Friday 12th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I have been very pleased to have a number of discussions with colleagues north of the border and in Wales. It is a pleasure, as always, to continue to work with them.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

I draw the House’s attention to an interest in the register.

I congratulate the courageous Minister on making this decision. She has led from the front and done completely the right thing in having an evidence-based decision. The shadow Minister’s attack on her was completely unfounded. This Minister would never do something against her principles; if she thought it was wrong, she would resign. Is not this exactly the way Government should be: evidence-based rather than rushing through things?

[Anna Soubry]

I agree.

Herbal Medicine (Regulation)

Peter Bone Excerpts

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Westminster Hall

[David Tredinnick]

I have seen evidence in Europe that when doctors combine the two, the allopathic drugs bill can be reduced because herbs tend to be less expensive. That may worry manufacturers, and it has long been said that they are actively campaigning against this. They would be wise to accept that working with natural medicine is good for sales of conventional medicine.

[Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)]

Order. I apologise that I forgot to say at the beginning that I intend to start the wind-ups no later than 10.40, and that two Members have written to me asking to participate in the debate.

[David Tredinnick]

You are ever courteous, Mr Bone, and I will not detain the Chamber much longer. I am acutely aware of not taking up other people’s time.

The Minister has three options. The Health Practitioners Council was the original idea. The Professional Standards Authority for Health and Social Care oversees the regulatory work of other organisations but is not as robust. A special licensing system for practitioner-prescribed products is a possibility, provided they are not traded between member states, and that may be a way out of the problem. We must find a solution, or there will be a disaster in the long term. I have used Chinese herbs and herbal medicine for many years, and I find them extremely safe and effective. I want people in this country to be able to use herbs. The key objective for the Minister is to ensure that the maximum number of products is available safely through regulated practitioners.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Dr Daniel Poulter)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone, for, I believe, the first time. I am sure that you were salivating, listening to the issues raised in the debate—

[Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)]

Order. I want to make it clear to the Minister that when I sit in this Chair, I have no views on anything.

[Dr Poulter]

Indeed, Mr Bone, as you say, you have no views on anything when you are impartially chairing the debate, but I am sure you pay keen interest to the topics raised, in your position as Chair and otherwise.

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth (David Tredinnick) for securing the debate, which I am sure is of interest to the consumers and practitioners who use herbal medicines, as well as to the many Members who attended the debate today. None of us disagree with the principles articulated here—we can all sign up to them—but good government is about working through the practicalities of proposals to ensure that they become good laws, as I will discuss later.

There have been many good and worthy contributions to the debate. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) showed his strong support for herbal practitioners in his constituency, and he was right to say that things in Government do not happen in a flash but have to be properly thought through. I want to reassure him that some of the products he mentioned—he talked about the benefits of vitamin E, for example—are freely available from herbal practitioners, and indeed from pharmacists and other places.

There were other strong contributions from my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), who is no longer in his seat, and the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey). The hon. Lady made her case eloquently, and I would be happy to meet with her at a later date to discuss sports therapists further, but I would not wish to intrude on Mr Bone’s patience by talking about the issue today and I hope she will forgive me for that.

I pay particular tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth for his principled and long-standing support for herbal practitioners and his interest in alternative therapies, homeopathy and many other such issues. Today he has demonstrated his extensive knowledge of the topic under debate, and of alternative therapies in general. I am sure I am right in saying that he is the most informed Member of Parliament on many of these issues, and it is a great tribute to him that he has secured the debate today. I am sure that herbal practitioners and alternative therapists would wish to pay tribute to his great work and his advocacy on their behalf, and on behalf of his constituents.

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the chief medical officer’s challenge about the future of antibiotics, but we can make a clear distinction between those remarks and the subject of today’s debate. I am sure that the chief medical officer would not wish her remarks to be associated with a call for a greater use of herbal medicine—that was clearly not outlined in her paper. Although it is important that we always consider ways—via traditional medical routes or otherwise—of improving people’s health and providing the right therapies, the paper clearly laid out the long-standing challenges as being about antibiotic resistance, and it would be wrong, therefore, to allow the two issues to be confused.

By way of background, it is worth highlighting that although we support patient choice some herbal products have caused harm to consumers. There are a number of reasons why that might happen: the herb may be intrinsically toxic; the product may be accidentally or purposefully contaminated by harmful materials or heavy metals; people may choose herbal products for serious conditions when medicines with a solid evidence base would be more appropriate; and, if herbal products are taken together with conventional medicines, the interactions may be unpredictable. It is right, therefore, that we support the responsible use of medicines and have a licensing system.

Directive 2004/24/EC on traditional herbal medicinal products was introduced to harmonise the European Union internal market and remove barriers to free movement. The directive deals with products manufactured on an industrial scale, and makes all operators in the market comply with the same set of rules, facilitates free movement and ensures increased product safety, which, I am sure we agree, has a positive impact on patient safety and public health.

The question of whether herbalists and traditional Chinese medical practitioners should be statutorily regulated has been debated since the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee first reported on the matter in 2000. The hon. Member for Vauxhall and my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth outlined in their remarks that there is a lot of background and history. The previous Government grappled with the issues, and the current Government are also considering how to address and fulfil the commitments made by the previous Health Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley). Hon. Members will be aware that on 16 February 2011 the Government announced their intention to take forward the regulation of herbal medicine practitioners and traditional Chinese medicine practitioners, specifically with regard to the use of third-party products in their practice.

Herbal products broadly fall into three categories. The first are the 310 herbal medicines that already have a marketing authorisation or a traditional herbal registration—in other words, a product licence. Those 310 medications are currently available for use and are effectively licensed. They are safe and widely used, and have undergone all relevant testing and checks. The second category, which is the one we are addressing today, covers products manufactured by a third party. Such products have been illegal since April 2011, following the implementation of the EU directive. The third category is products made up by a practitioner on their own premises following an individual consultation. Although such products are not affected by the directive, some of the herbal ingredients may be restricted by the Human Medicines Regulations 2012.

The previous Health Secretary’s concerns about the second category—products manufactured by a third party—prompted the decision to take forward statutory regulation of such products. The Government’s intention was to allow regulated herbal practitioners lawfully to source third-party manufactured herbal medicines, with appropriate safeguards in place to minimise the risks associated with the products, but since April 2011 the European directive has made it illegal for herbal practitioners in the UK to source such products for their patients.

Following the EU judgment in the case of the Commission v. Poland, which my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering mentioned, we have reassessed the risks. That case actually concerned unlicensed conventional medicines being used because they were cheaper, and although there is a clear distinction between those products and herbal remedies we had to look at what else the judgment said. It looked at the specials regime and, critically, it emphasised how strictly the regime must be applied. The judgment has a knock-on effect for what we propose for the use of herbal medicines manufactured by third parties without a licence, and it therefore needs careful consideration because there is a very high risk that we would be found to be in infraction of the European directive. We therefore need to consider further herbal products manufactured by a third party, and I will return to that point later.

The Government would, of course, like to find a way through the issue that supports responsible businesses and ensures public safety. Since the announcement in February 2011, the Department of Health has been working with officials in the devolved Administrations and with the Health and Care Professions Council to establish a statutory register for herbal practitioners. Alongside that, we have been considering a strengthened system for regulating medicinal products, to enable consumers to have access to a greater range of third-party manufactured herbal medicines. The process continues to be complex and lengthy, and it has been further complicated by the judgment in the European Union v. Poland case.

We acknowledge that there is strong support from some groups of herbal practitioners for the statutory regulation of the sector, but not all practitioners are in favour. I am sure, therefore, that hon. Members will appreciate that it would be irresponsible for the Government to undertake to alter the status of a group of workers without first ensuring that the policy and final decision offered an appropriate form of regulation and ensured that the proposals adequately addressed the risks posed to consumers of third-party manufactured herbal medicines.

As I stated earlier, complex issues are involved. We are discussing how to ensure that our proposals are fit for purpose and proportionate, and that they properly protect the public. I want to assure the hon. Member for Vauxhall that the matter has not been dropped. We absolutely support the principles outlined by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire in his written ministerial statement to the House, and I fully appreciate that the delay is causing anxiety and concern to practitioners of herbal medicine and to consumers.

To ensure that we take forward the matter effectively, we want to bring together experts and interested parties from all sides of the debate to form a working group that will gather evidence and consider all the viable options in more detail, particularly because of the Polish case. I am aware of the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth about making timely progress, and I would therefore very much welcome his direct involvement in the working group to ensure that the interests of practitioners are properly looked after. We can meet when the House returns to work out how to take forward the proposal.

I hope that my commitment to setting up a working group will reassure my hon. Friend and all hon. Members that the Government are carefully considering this important issue. We recognise and agree with the principles, but the practicalities are such that we must have legislation that is fit for purpose—that does not trigger infraction proceedings from the European Union, but protects the public. That is vital in all health care matters, whether in relation to traditional medicines or to herbal medicines and alternative therapies. For that reason, we want to set up a working group and to work with my hon. Friend, and herbalists and others, to ensure that the legislation is fit for purpose. I look forward to discussing that with him in due course.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Poulter]

We need to sit down together. I very much want to involve my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth, and the hon. Lady would be very welcome to join that discussion when the House returns. The idea is to get a working party up and running in the early autumn to ensure that we progress matters. We obviously need to discuss issues raised today about statutory regulation and third-party manufactured products, and to look at such products in detail to see which might be classified as more akin to food additives or vitamin and mineral supplements and which as more akin to medications, because there is a spectrum. We need to work through such issues to make sure that we get to the right place.

It is important that any legislation not only passes the test of principle—we are all signed up to it—but is practical and fit for purpose. Particularly in light of the judgment in the case of the EU Commission v. Poland, we have other issues to consider that make the matter a little more complex. I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth and the hon. Member for Vauxhall that we are committed to making timely progress, and when we meet on our return in September, we can progress things. I am sure that my hon. Friend’s involvement will keep the Government keen to their task.

[Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)]

I thank hon. Members for taking the time for an absolutely splendid debate.

Immigrants (NHS Treatment)

Peter Bone Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I understand my hon. Friend’s sense of unfairness at being asked to pay for her treatment by credit card, when we do not do that to foreign nationals who are treated in the NHS. I do not, however, want the NHS to become a service where the first question people are asked relates to their credit card or cheque book. If we are going to protect that much-cherished principle of NHS treatment, we need to get a grip on the kind of abuse that has run unchecked for far too long.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the House is divided by two schools: the Opposition, who believe that the NHS should not charge anyone, which is why they did nothing for 13 years; and Government Members, who believe that foreign nationals who should pay, must pay.

[Mr Hunt]

I agree, and nothing we have heard this afternoon will give the British public any comfort at all that the Opposition get this problem.

Oral Answers to Questions

Peter Bone Excerpts

Tuesday 27th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising an important topic. I send my heartfelt sympathies to his constituent. As he identified, this is a real problem. Yes, is the short answer to his first question. I met officials several weeks ago to discuss exactly this problem, as we need to do more in that area. Of course, this is a national scheme. Whether there is a need for a local scheme in Manchester is a moot point, but his constituent will be able to access the national scheme. I am more than happy to discuss the matter further with him.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Neuroblastoma is a nasty cancer that affects fewer than 100 children a year. Thanks to the previous Labour Minister, Ann Keen, we persuaded the previous Prime Minister that it should be treated on the NHS without the need for a referral. Unfortunately, there seems to be some slippage, with some primary care trusts refusing to pay for the treatment. Will the Secretary of State look into the matter and see if they can be given the correct information, which is that they should be providing this treatment?

Oral Answers to Questions

Peter Bone Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

1. What his latest estimate is of the likely cost of the NHS in 2012-13.

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt)]

The latest estimates of NHS spending are those published in the 2012 Budget. The planned NHS spending for 2012-13 is £108.8 billion.

[Mr Bone]

The Conservative-led coalition Government are increasing spending on the NHS, unlike what Labour would do. In my constituency, we will get an urgent care centre in a few months as a result of Tory health reforms. People in Corby already have an urgent care centre as a result of Tory reforms. Does the Secretary of State agree that, while Labour talks about the NHS, Conservatives deliver on the NHS?

[Mr Hunt]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. Indeed, last week we announced that waiting times are at near-record lows. The number of hospital-acquired infections continues to go down and mixed-sex wards have been virtually eliminated. I am very pleased that my hon. Friend has an urgent care centre, and am sure that Mrs Bone will appreciate it even more than he does.

NHS Annual Report and Care Objectives

Peter Bone Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Let me just separate those two parts. First, when there are changes in a service, such as when there is a proposal to change the provider of community services from, for example, an NHS-owned provider to an independent sector provider, they will be a subject for local consultation.

Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman will recall that, when there is any proposal not to provide a service, the Secretary of State is responsible under legislation for the provision of a comprehensive health service. It is not open, as I have made clear to the right hon. Member for Leigh, to the NHS to discontinue the provision of NHS services. It has to—[Interruption.] He says from a sedentary position, “It is doing so,” but he is completely wrong. I wrote to him this morning.

We have stopped precisely the things that he said used to happen under the Labour Government, and it is precisely the case that trusts and future commissioners will have to maintain a comprehensive health service. They can apply clinical criteria and judge certain treatments to be of relatively poor value, but they must always maintain a service and show how they are responding to the clinical needs of their patients.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Ever since I was elected to Parliament, I have campaigned for an urgent care centre in a hospital in my constituency. Labour took NHS provision out of my constituency, but with the new Nene Valley clinical commissioning group we are going for the first time to have that urgent care centre. So I should welcome the Secretary of State to Wellingborough, but I must warn him that he would be carried shoulder-high through its streets—with people cheering him.

[Mr Lansley]

I cannot resist the enticement of such an invitation from my hon. Friend. It will reiterate what I found a year or so ago when I visited the nascent Nene Valley commissioning organisation. People there are really taking hold of things and showing how they can improve services in Northamptonshire.

Health and Social Care Bill

Peter Bone Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I say to the hon. Member for Colne Valley (Jason McCartney) who is chuntering inanely from a sedentary position, to no obvious benefit or purpose, that the Chair is perfectly capable of adjudicating upon what is and is not in order and that it does not behove an hon. Member to seek to intervene in such matters? These proceedings have thus far been entirely orderly. That is the beginning and the end of the matter.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

There is an old political saying that the Liberal Democrats say one thing at one end of their constituency and another thing at the other end. Will the Secretary of State lay that rumour absolutely to rest—that they are not saying one thing at this end of Parliament and another thing at the other end?

[Mr Lansley]

I am happy to be able to tell my hon. Friend that I, with my colleagues, have had very constructive engagement with my Liberal Democrat colleagues in government and, indeed, during the course of our debates in another place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Peter Bone Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Burns]

May I say, in the nicest possible way, that I think the hon. Gentleman is a tiny bit confused? I think he is confusing the one-off costs of the modernisation with the 2% hold-back figures used by the PCTs, which put aside money—a process instigated by the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), which we carried on—that can be used if a PCT gets into financial problems. If it does not get into financial problems, it can then use the money to invest in front-line services.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

The Conservative-led coalition should be congratulated on introducing a measure that will get rid of red tape and bureaucracy by getting rid of strategic health authorities and primary care trusts. Do the Labour Opposition not look like dinosaurs when they try to defend those bodies?

[Mr Burns]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend and I am always reassured when he congratulates the coalition Government, as it suggests to me that we are getting something right. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As everyone who understands health policy in this country recognises, the NHS must evolve to meet changing needs and we are improving effectiveness and efficiency and saving money by cutting out administration and bureaucracy so that we can reinvest in front-line services to look after the health interests of all our constituents.

Oral Answers to Questions

Peter Bone Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

On the latter point, I have been talking to those in training, and part of their education increasingly includes leadership. That is what we are looking for—clinical leadership, not to turn clinicians into managers. They will work with managers, but they will provide leadership.

On nursing training, the Care Quality Commission’s recent inspection reports, in particular, illustrated the sheer variability of care—sometimes even between wards in the same hospital. On that basis, we should not in any sense damn the quality of nurse training; we need to focus on the quality of nurse leadership—ward by ward, and hospital by hospital.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

The new Government’s strategy on human trafficking requires the NHS to ensure that victims of human trafficking are recognised in hospitals and reported. One way of doing that is to improve training for nurses. I have just returned from Moldova, where nurses have a course on human trafficking as part of their training, so that they can recognise victims and help them. Is that something that we could incorporate here?

[Mr Lansley]

I am interested to hear my hon. Friend’s experience. I certainly look forward to hearing more from him about it, and to taking it on board in considering how we respond to those obviously tragic victims.