Intellectual Property Bill [Lords]

Debate between Pete Wishart and Helen Goodman

Monday 20th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for saying that; it does bring a degree of comfort. I recognise that there is an attempt to try to resolve this matter. He clearly recognises that it is a huge issue for us that has to be resolved. The whole Scottish legal establishment is united in calling for that. I welcome what he said and hope that as we take the Bill through we will hear more about it and can ensure that the Scottish courts are satisfied and that we do not lose their centuries of experience in dealing with patent issues.

I want to say a few words about clause 21, which will require the Secretary of State to report on the activities of the IPO and how it has supported innovation and growth in the United Kingdom. I do not think any Member would argue against that. It is a very positive step that provides a bit of a focus for the IPO’s activities. However, any measure must be quantified, and it must include some reference to how those activities have supported IP-dependent businesses and IP rights.

One major battle throughout the Hargreaves process was all the stuff about economic evidence. I remember when the creative industries used to present evidence to us. The work done by the creative industries to inform the Government about their activities—it was sometimes commissioned by the Government—was arrogantly dismissed by Hargreaves as “lobbynomics”. However, the Intellectual Property Office made some heroic assumptions to support its copyright exceptions. It said that if all 10 of Hargreaves’s recommendations were introduced it would make a difference of between 0.6% and 0.9% of GDP. Come on! It expected us to believe that. It therefore works both ways.

Some of the other heroic assumptions underpinning copyright exceptions were totally unbelievable. We in the all-party group on intellectual property asked IPO officers to come in and explain them, and we found what they said totally unsatisfactory. The annual report must therefore be credible and robust, and it must respect everybody in the sector. The Government should not just leave it to the Intellectual Property Office to concoct some figures and expect us to be happy and satisfied with them. At some point, we will have to be able to challenge the assumptions and look at what underlies them, because we cannot have some of the nonsensical economic assumptions that we had in the past.

Lastly, I want to return to Google. This all started with Google, did it not? It was kicked off by the “Googlesburg” address, but let us try to turn that on its head. The issue was all about whether a Google could emerge in the UK because of restrictive intellectual property practices. What about looking at Google itself? It is a digital behemoth—there is nothing bigger in the digital world—and the gatekeeper for all our content industries. Nothing happens without Google, and nothing can go through its prism without satisfying it in some way. It distorts the digital market, and it is damn good at ensuring that it keeps its predominant position. All its activities are about maintaining its predominant, almost monopoly position as the gatekeeper of content. It produces no content of its own—not a bit—but, yet again, the question all comes down to how content is measured and assessed.

[Helen Goodman]

As a matter of fact, what the hon. Gentleman says about Google not producing its own content is inaccurate. It would strengthen his argument if he acknowledged that it produces content—for example, maps. He is probably aware that the European Commission is now looking at its uncompetitive behaviour in putting its own products above others in the search engine.

[Pete Wishart]

I was perhaps a tad too harsh in relation to Google producing some of its content. Yes, it copies maps, puts them up and makes sure that people can access them, but it produces none of what we understand and appreciate as content, whether drama, film, television or whatever. All it does is act as a platform, which is the only platform that people use.

At some time, this Government must have a proper look at the almost monopoly status of this huge, multinational, non-UK business and ask whether it is good for our content industries. I have a sneaking feeling that it is not. I have seen the evidence from the British Phonographic Industry. It sent 50 million notices to Google asking it to take down links to illegal— I emphasise, illegal—sites. Google should not be doing that. What on earth is going on if it receives 50 million requests to take down links to illegal sites?

If hon. Members run Google searches for MP3 downloads for the top 20 singles or albums from the whole of November, on average 77% of first-page search results for singles and 64% of those for albums will direct them to illegal sites. Is that not incredible? If they put in the name of a band to find some of its musical content, they will be directed to an illegal site through Google. What on earth is going on? As the BPI has said, Google’s monopoly leads consumers into

“a murky underworld of unlicensed sites, where they may break the law…because it persistently ranks such sites above trusted legal services when consumers search for music to download.”

It is time to call in the Competition Commission: we cannot continue to allow Google to be the gateway to content industries when they do them so much damage.

I met and had a fantastic chat with the Featured Artists Coalition just before Christmas. It has represented some of our greatest pop stars over the past 50 years—people who have made millions of pounds for the UK economy and given us great entertainment throughout those years. One of its spokespeople, Crispin Hunt, perfectly summed up the situation when he said:

“A brilliant new band that I recently worked with has just been dropped by their label because their debut EP sold barely 4,000 copies. Yet the number one site on a Google Search for the same EP boasts of 23,000 illegal downloads…then directs me to an online brothel, next to an advert for Nissan as I rip the tunes. What more do I need to say?”

What more, indeed, need he say before something is done about the monopoly status of Google?

I hope that now we are bringing the Hargreaves process to its conclusion, we will start to consider how people access content, how it is distributed and how that distribution distorts the market, as well as how to ensure that our artists, inventors and creators are properly rewarded for their work. I hope to serve on the Public Bill Committee as there are several outstanding issues that need to be considered, and I look forward to the Minister’s response. He has those two brains, so he can get thinking on the Intellectual Property Bill, and I hope that his two brains will be in the mood to accept some helpful amendments as we try to improve it and to secure satisfaction for our creative industries and our artist creators.

The Bill is adequate and piecemeal, but it is the only one we have, so let us get this done. Let us finish the Hargreaves process and move on to the substantial and real work that we need to do to ensure that this country remains at the top of all cultural and artistic disciplines as we go into the next decade.

Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill

Debate between Pete Wishart and Helen Goodman

Friday 9th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Helen Goodman]

The hon. Gentleman makes my exact point, but unfortunately that is not the way the Bill is drafted. That is one of its faults.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

That is a very interesting point, but what exactly does it have to do with the amendments?

[Helen Goodman]

What I am trying to do is demonstrate that the Bill is not well drafted, and the amendments that we have tabled do just that. I fear that the object of this Bill is really a political object—that what the hon. Member for West Worcestershire is doing is disingenuous and that her concerns are different from those that she has set out.