Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Bill

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 25th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great honour and privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Winston. I thank him immensely for all that he has done to bring us to this situation, but my first thank you must go to my noble friend Lord Lucas, for giving us the amendment that the Minister has felt able to accept and for putting it down with others. We all thank the Minister for his tremendous work, in the last few days and earlier, in ensuring that the detail of the Bill is as perfect as it can be. He first gave attention to the Explanatory Notes, which he revised and improved. Then, he most generously offered a review, which was a wonderful offer. We are all looking forward immensely to discussing that and participating in a debate later. Today, he has really broken the tape as the winner, in that he has accepted the amendment of my noble friend Lord Lucas.

I was fortunate enough to put my name down in time for one amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Lucas. I support many amendments, including that which says,

“leave out ‘person’ and insert ‘mother’”.

As Shakespeare says,

“Why not a mother? When I said ‘a mother,’

Methought you saw a serpent: what’s in ‘mother,’

That you start at it? I say, I am your mother;

And put you in the catalogue of those

That were enwombed mine”.

It felt a little like that on Monday. When we used the word “mother”, it was as if people were alarmed by the concept. It had to be a “person”. Today, “All’s Well That Ends Well”, which is where that quotation comes from. I thank the Minister immensely.

The first person to thank, from our Back Benches, must be my noble friend Lady Noakes, who opened up the entire debate on Monday by putting forward her regret Motion. That was a timely and correct Motion, which enabled all of us to open our hearts and minds, and discuss this from all corners of opinion. We thank my noble friend Lady Noakes immensely for doing this for us and for not taking it to the vote, because it has brought us to today’s happy moment, when we have something that nearly all of us—I hope all of us—will fully support, which will give the right maternity allowances and so on to the Attorney-General, whom the Bill aims to support.

The wonderful thing about the acceptance of the amendment of my noble friend Lord Lucas, is that it follows the accurate criticism on Monday and in the other place that this Bill was designed to help one person only. Now, with the alteration of the wording from “person” to “mother”, it embraces everyone. It embraces the whole of maternity. It may not name everyone in it, but it opens the door to us having further debates and enlarging maternity support. There are certain pockets and gaps in maternity provision for women in the United Kingdom even now. The criticism of the Bill was correct that it was just for a single mother, but now it is not; “mother” is for all mothers, and that is wonderful. I am really happy about that.

Many others have been working in the last two or three weeks and, as soon as the discussion began several weeks ago, a large group of us coalesced. We coalesced with almost no special drilling, organisation, APPG horrors or anything like that. Yet, as we have already heard today and will hear more of, members of the group have been working together from all corners of the House. The noble Lords, Lord Hunt, Lord Young, Lord Winston, Lord Triesman, and the noble Baroness, Lady Morris—wonderful Members of Her Majesty’s Opposition are working together with us. We have heard from my noble friend Lord Lucas, and there are many more people on this side too, whom I can name, such as my noble friends Lady Noakes, Lady Altmann, Lady Eaton, Lord Balfe and Lord Polak. We have the Cross Benches, such as the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, who apologises for not being here today, because she is in another committee. She has been and will go on being magnificent. We are still to hear from the noble Baronesses, Lady Fox and Lady Hoey, who are non-aligned. We have already heard from others, such as the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig. This big cluster is growing every day; I cannot name everyone. It is safe to say that we have built on the work of the other place and of Sir John Hayes and Andrew Rosindell—forgive me for not remembering their constituencies. We have had a lot of help from across the Cross Benches and both sides of the House.

This is a beginning. It is a wonderful beginning and the first step in clarifying some of the legislation that appears to have become rather muddled recently. We in the House of Lords have the time, duty, knowledge and obligation. We are people of public service, and we can do all that is possible to make certain that everything that comes through this House comes out again in perfect condition, suitable for the population of Great Britain and elsewhere.

I thank the Minister once more and, just to make him laugh, tell him that the debate that he leads this afternoon has a hashtag. Guess what it is. It is all over the web and the House of Lords. The hashtag is #MumsTheWord.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP) [V]]

It is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Nicholson. I add my voice and thanks to the Minister for his earlier remarks and his acceptance of the amendment standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. I also express thanks to those noble Lords who have spoken so powerfully in changing the language that was originally proposed for the Bill, in moving amendments to give effect to the widespread view of Members of your Lordships’ House about that issue.

During the Second Reading of the Bill, all were struck by the virtual unanimity, across all parts of the House, in opposing the use of the word “person”. Like others, since participating in that debate, I too have received many emails from women who have expressed real concern about the original proposals and what they meant. One of the things that came out of the debate, more than anything else, was the feeling that it is important to draw a line in the sand on this issue and that it is time to stand up to some of the—if I may say—intimidation and marginalisation that goes on when people try to express what in my view is a perfectly reasonable position.

If it is not possible to talk about a “mother” or “woman”, rather than a “person”, in a Bill of this nature, when would it ever be considered appropriate? Reassurances might have been given that this is to do with legal drafting guidelines, that the Bill is perfectly competent and legally effective, that what is said here cannot be taken as a precedent and so on. I fully respect the sincerity and good faith of the Minister in the arguments that he advanced in the previous debate, but we know that the danger is that, if we had missed this opportunity to resist and rectify something that is palpably wrong, albeit for what might have been seen as plausible reasons, in the future it would have been used as an argument to further do away with appropriate and proper references to “woman” and “women” plural in legislation and elsewhere.

This legislation is very narrow in its application to the circumstances and situation of the current Attorney-General. Again, we wish her and her family well at this important time. It is a pity that the Government found themselves in the position of incurring such controversy on such an issue. I hope that the lesson has been learned. The way in which your Lordships’ House has reacted and taken action is to its enormous credit.

There are a number of wider issues that I and other noble Lords raised during our debate on Monday, and the Government have agreed to come back to the House before the Summer Recess to report on many of them. That is welcome and I look forward to the report. Like other noble Lords, I might have preferred the Bill to refer to “woman” rather than “mother”, but I recognise that the Government have moved today on this most important issue, and I thank the Minister for listening to noble Lords.

Covid-19: Vaccination Passport

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I confess that I cannot find the answer to that at the moment. I will write to the noble Lord on that point. I apologise for not being able to answer it now.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, on international travel issues, but surely the way forward within the United Kingdom is to have as rapid a vaccination rollout, of as many people, as possible. Can the Minister assure us that the devolved Administrations are intimately involved in that rollout programme and that they will all move ahead at the same time?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, we wish for the fastest possible progress across our United Kingdom. I can give that assurance. In reply to the previous question, at this stage, the Government are not looking to make it a requirement to have a Covid-19 vaccination to travel into the country.

Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Bill

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 22nd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his opening statement and for clearly setting out the purpose of the Bill. It is narrow in its application, and I am happy to support it through all its stages in this House. I agree that it is wrong, in this day and age, that Cabinet Ministers who take maternity leave are required to resign. I welcome the extension of provisions to cover the position of opposition officeholders, as well. Women in Parliament and public life generally have faced massive challenges, and our ways of working must be brought up to date as quickly and comprehensively as possible.

However, like other noble Lords, it seems strange to me that it takes the circumstances of an individual case to prompt legislation of this nature. The public will find it very odd that this situation has not been legislated for long before now, rather than being rushed through to accommodate specific circumstances. I also take the opportunity to wish the Attorney-General and her family well, at this time.

I share the view that it would be far better for the Government to bring forward more comprehensive proposals than this legislation to cover paternity, shared parental or adoption leave. I cannot think of any real reason why they could not have included these. None of them is covered in the current legislation; nor is the situation of Cabinet Ministers who are affected by sickness and need to take leave. In recent years, we have had examples of Cabinet Ministers who have had to step down as a result of sickness. It would be good if there was legislation to cover those circumstances, as well.

I welcome the commitment by the Minister and the Government to give urgent consideration to issues such as this and to bring forward proposals to address outstanding parental leave issues in due course. I welcome what the Minister said about an update before the Summer Recess, and we look forward to that. It would also be useful to know how the legislation before us and the situation that has been presented compares to provision made in the devolved Administrations. It is important to have consistency across the United Kingdom.

There are a couple of specific issues that I want to highlight on the particular provisions of the Bill. The first is the time limit of six months for paid leave and the second is the discretionary nature of the provisions, whereby the Prime Minister is vested with certain powers that do not normally apply elsewhere—a matter just alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick. That Ministers are public officeholders, appointed by the sovereign on the advice of the Prime Minister using the royal prerogative, limits what can be put in statute. I recognise that. However, having to seek the permission of the Prime Minister of the day to take maternity leave, as provided for in the Bill, seems incredibly anachronistic. It leaves open the rather bizarre possibility that the Prime Minister could refuse such a request. Neither a Minister in such a position nor the Prime Minister of the day should ever be put in that position, however theoretical. I think that the six-month period is too restrictive; there is no good reason why it should not be for up to 12 months. The current law on statutory maternity leave is 52 weeks, after all, and it would seem reasonable to extend the period to that.

It is also important that the Government address wider, general issues concerning maternity leave and statutory maternity pay. No one should face discrimination or undue financial loss as a result of having a child and no one should ever be in the position of having to give up their job. The low level of statutory maternity pay or allowance generally in this country is cast into sharp relief by the provisions of this Bill, which allow six months’ maternity leave on full pay. As this legislation is brought forward today to deal with the position of Cabinet Ministers, it cannot be long before the Government address wider issues affecting mothers and fathers across the board in this country.

Finally, I fully support the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, in her recent amendment. I wholeheartedly endorse the argument that she and other noble Lords have advanced in advocating their support for that amendment to the Motion, and I will certainly support her, if she presses it to a vote.

I have great concerns, as expressed in the other place and by noble Lords, about the use of the word “person”, as opposed to “woman”, in the Bill. I have yet to hear a satisfactory explanation from the Government for why this is the case. It is baffling, and not just to Members of Parliament—it is something that most members of the public will find utterly inexplicable. I hope that the Government listen to what noble Lords have said in this House and move to rectify the situation, as the Bill goes through its different stages.

Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland: Border Controls

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Thursday 4th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I will not anticipate from this Dispatch Box what might be the progress of negotiations. I take note of the point made by my noble friend, given his great experience. In the first instance, my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Maroš Šefčovič must get together to address, we hope, the substantial range of points set out in the Chancellor’s letter.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP) [V]]

I too condemn all threats made against anyone in Northern Ireland, including the previous threats made by republicans against those working on the Irish border. Last week, the European Union showed no regard for Northern Ireland. It demolished the rationale behind the Northern Ireland protocol, lowered the bar for the triggering of Article 16 and demonstrated its one-sided, pro-nationalist approach by disregarding the Belfast agreement. Does the Minister agree that the problems are real, having been brought about not by the Government and the parties in Northern Ireland but by those who, like the noble Lord, Lord Hain, advocated the Northern Ireland protocol? They need to be fixed either through renegotiation or through action by the Government. Will he robustly defend the need for this Parliament and Government to protect the internal market of the United Kingdom?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. I will end as I began, by condemning all violence and threats of violence. Flexibilities have been invoked. They are required on both sides, as are pragmatism and proportionality. In the negotiation, we need to provide a reassurance that all parties will respect the basis on which the protocol was agreed. That includes full recognition of Northern Ireland’s status as an integral part of the United Kingdom, respecting its place in the UK’s customs territory and internal market and recognising the integral social, economic and cultural ties that bind the UK as a whole, and safeguarding the streamlined flow of goods between Britain and Northern Ireland on which so many lives and livelihoods rely. We are also respecting the need to maintain the support of both communities. That is our objective and it is the one to which Her Majesty’s Government are dedicated. I hope sincerely that our counterparties in the European Union will address the same agenda.

Customs Miscellaneous Non-fiscal Provisions and Amendments etc. (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his speech explaining this piece of delegated legislation before the Committee this afternoon. If I may, I will follow up on some of the points made by the noble Lord in his speech just now.

I make the general point that this is another statutory instrument which, as a result of the protocol, will change regulations that have already been passed to apply to the whole of the United Kingdom to make special provision for Northern Ireland’s trade with the rest of the United Kingdom. I remind Noble Lords—and this is important—that no one in Northern Ireland ever gave their consent to this protocol, despite the promise in the EU-UK joint declaration of December 2017 that regulatory difference could happen only with the consent of the Assembly and the Executive. That was arbitrarily set aside. Since the protocol means that certain provisions of EU law will continue to apply to Northern Ireland, it is certainly not—and the Government would have to admit this—taking back control of our laws, borders and money, as far as Northern Ireland is concerned.

I will turn to some of the detail of this instrument. The Explanatory Memorandum states that

“this instrument comes into force at the end of the transition period. Royal Assent to the Taxation (Post-transition Period) Bill is, however, required before this instrument can be laid. This instrument will therefore be laid as soon as possible after Royal Assent to the Taxation (Post-transition Period) Bill.”

We are also told that

“The consequences of delaying this instrument by using non-urgent powers are that the amendments and modifications required to make changes to address the different regimes applying in NI and GB, and to deal properly with certain movements of goods between NI and GB would not be in place in time (that is at the end of the transition period).”


Given that the transition period ended on 31 December 2020, will the Minister clarify the precise legal position as of today, and indeed for the last almost three weeks? Have these regulations actually been in force from the end of the transition period? What has been the legal position, and what is the current legal position, prior to the approval of these regulations?

Will the Minister also set out the extent of the consultation there has been in relation to these new regulations? Have the Government had any discussions with the Northern Ireland Executive and relevant Ministers about its details and the implications of its provisions? The Explanatory Notes state:

“There is no, or no significant impact on business, charities or voluntary bodies.”

I find the assertion that there is no impact, or no significant impact, on business rather peculiar. I should be very grateful if the Minister would outline what consultation there has been with relevant businesses on the detail of this particular instrument, as opposed to general consultation with businesses on the general issues of the protocol. We know that there has been a lot of engagement with business on the general issue of the protocol, but on this particular statutory instrument and its implications, what has been the consultation process with businesses in Northern Ireland?

An entry summary declaration is required for the movement of goods from Northern Ireland to Great Britain where those goods are subject to customs duty under the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018. If the goods are not subject to customs duty, no ENS is required. The Minister has confirmed that this means that customs duty is imposed only on non-qualifying NI goods. Those include things such as fluorinated gas and ozone depleting substances, hazardous chemicals, genetically modified organisms and so on. Can the Minister clarify for the Committee whether any other goods are subject to customs duty under Section 30C of that Act? To repeat a question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, what proportion of trade movements between Northern Ireland and Great Britain are likely to be caught by the provisions of this instrument?

I welcome the fact that the entry summary declaration can be lodged two hours before a ferry carrying goods from Northern Ireland arrives at the first port of entry in Great Britain. This shorter time limit for submission of the requisite information is of course welcome. Without it, there would be another wholly unnecessary burden for Northern Ireland businesses.

Regulation 4 provides that the registration and identification requirements, which the Minister referred to, that apply to movements into and out of Great Britain apply also to goods moving from Northern Ireland to Great Britain. Where these requirements apply and entry summary declarations are needed, can the Minister outline the form of these requirements and declarations? What will be the process for filling them out and the submission of declarations and other requirements? I presume that at the very least it will entail no extra paperwork and certainly no extra cost for business in Northern Ireland, as that would go against the unfettered trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain that was guaranteed. It would also go against the declaration that the Prime Minister famously made to businesses in Northern Ireland when he said that, if such paperwork and so on was required, it should be thrown into the bin and the relevant businesses should ring him up. Therefore, I ask for a reassurance from the Minister that those guarantees will be in place for Northern Ireland.

These are technical regulations but they have significant implications, both economic and political, and they bear close examination. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on them and to seek clarification today. If the Minister is unable to deal with all my questions this afternoon, I shall of course be happy to receive further explanation and elucidation by correspondence in due course.

Economic Update

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 12th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we have used such instruments as discretionary funding support for local authorities. We have just given an additional £500 million to enable them to fill gaps, for example, in the small business community, where hardship is being experienced. We remain alert to any other pockets of the economy where we feel we may be able to assist.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP) [V]]

My Lords, the Government’s economic measures to get through the pandemic are very welcome but, as has just been said, there are people who have been excluded and their situation needs to be addressed at a national level. In his Statement, the Chancellor also talked of the certainty for businesses as a result of the trade deal with the EU. Unfortunately, it does not look that way in Northern Ireland at the moment, where the detrimental economic effects of the Northern Ireland protocol are all too evident, as we warned. The Government must urgently come to solutions or this will have a big impact on our economic recovery, including invoking article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol as required, to smooth the way for frictionless trade and commerce to continue between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Can the Minister update your Lordships’ House on steps that will be taken in the coming days to fulfil the promises made by the Prime Minister on this issue?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con) [V]]

The Government do not accept that the approach the noble Lord is suggesting is the right one. We have put in place the trader support scheme in Northern Ireland, which I had some responsibility for; some 28,000 businesses have registered for it, including more than 12,500 in Northern Ireland, and 23,000 of those are in a ready-to-trade state. Only last weekend, we managed to move 1,000 lorries across from GB into Northern Ireland; that was after the end of the in-flight concession, which was a big concession, essentially saying that goods were already in transit out of the EU at the point of delivery into Northern Ireland. That has worked smoothly. We will, of course, see problems over the next few weeks as people adjust to a very new system, but I am confident that we will be able to reduce the friction substantially over the weeks and months ahead.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP) [V]]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in this historic debate, but I am disappointed by the lack of time afforded to Parliament for prior scrutiny of the legislation and debate in the House today. I welcome the signing of a free trade agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union. It is better than a no-deal outcome, but it does not undo the detrimental effects of the Northern Ireland protocol. Any consideration of the trade deal has to take place in the context of the withdrawal agreement, which includes that protocol. That is why we will be voting against the Bill today.

The protocol was, as your Lordships know, imposed on Northern Ireland without its consent. It means the promise of restoring control over laws, borders and money does not apply to the same extent in Northern Ireland following Brexit. It should be stressed that Northern Ireland is outside the EU alongside the rest of the United Kingdom—out of the common fisheries policy, out of the common agricultural policy and out of large parts of the single market rules, and it remains within the customs territory of the United Kingdom.

Nevertheless, it is deeply regrettable—and frankly it was unnecessary—that the United Kingdom Government chose to go down the path of the protocol, given that there was never any intention to have a hard border on the island of Ireland, as both the EU and the Irish Government openly stated time and time again. Also, given the vastly greater importance of Great Britain for Northern Ireland’s trade, going forward we will work with the Government to ensure that they hold to their promises and commitments on unfettered trade between Northern Ireland the rest of the United Kingdom in both directions. There are many important outstanding issues still to be agreed, and with sovereignty restored to Parliament, along with the review mechanisms available in the treaties, the Government must prioritise the safeguarding of the internal market of the United Kingdom and deliver economic prosperity for Northern Ireland.

Nationalists, who of course were hoping for a no-deal outcome, will nevertheless use Brexit to seek to undermine the union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, even though I suspect they will have to change their tune as the UK capitalises on new opportunities. Nationalist arguments against Brexit apply even more strongly against the break-up of the union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The benefits of being part of the fifth-largest economy in the world have been illustrated again in recent times, and there is little enthusiasm among most people in Northern Ireland for a future characterised by continuous republican eulogies for terrorists and their sordid deeds.

There remains a great deal of work to be done, and we are committed to seizing the opportunities and progressing the challenges as a full and integral part of the United Kingdom in the years ahead.

UK-EU Future Relationship Negotiations and Transition Period

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I profoundly agree with what my noble friend Lady Noakes says. It has been an outstanding programme of public service from my noble friend Lord Frost and his team. Let us hope that what we all seek is crowned with success.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

In wishing the Government well in their negotiations to achieve a free trade deal that is in everybody’s interest, can the Minister update us on the joint committee’s parallel discussions about the Northern Ireland protocol? As he knows, businesses in Northern Ireland have written a joint letter asking for an adjustment period, but can he confirm that, in all circumstances, free and unfettered trade from Great Britain to Northern Ireland—and vice versa—will be guaranteed?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I am happy to underline the importance of unfettered access; I hope that all Members of this House will come round to recognising that. Talks have been going on in the joint committee, as the noble Lord knows. The atmosphere has been good; I hope that we will learn more in due course.

Definition of Qualifying Northern Ireland Goods (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Monday 30th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

My Lords, as the Minister said in his opening remarks, this regulation is designed to guarantee unfettered access for Northern Ireland goods into Great Britain. I welcome what Her Majesty’s Government have said about guaranteeing those commitments in legislation. As the Minister pointed out, it is in the New Decade, New Approach document, which was agreed by all the parties in Northern Ireland; they all signed up to that document. It was also in the December 2017 joint European Union- United Kingdom document, which at paragraph 50 said:

“In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.”


That paragraph was inserted after my party negotiated with Theresa May during that fateful week. We were always conscious of the need to ensure that protection was in place.

It is always a delight to follow the noble Lord, Lord Hain. He knows a lot about Northern Ireland, and he talked about a dog’s breakfast. Part of the problem that we are facing with Northern Ireland goods and trade with the rest of the United Kingdom is because some people prioritised trade with the Irish Republic and European Union above the biggest market of Great Britain. By far and away the biggest market for Northern Ireland is trade from Great Britain to Northern Ireland and from Northern Ireland to Great Britain. At the time when we were pointing out all those problems over the past couple of years, people did not seem to regard those issues; instead, they talked about all sorts of invented issues about problems north-south, when Simon Coveney, the Foreign Minister, Michel Barnier, and everyone else, including all the parties in Northern Ireland, guaranteed that there would never be any checks on trade north-south, in any circumstances. That is something that the Foreign Minister of the Irish Republic said just the other day.

I will bring the Minister on to a couple of questions that I have about this approach. As he said, this is phase 1 of the issue of how we grapple with defining what is a Northern Ireland good for the purposes of unfettered access. When exactly will we have the longer-term definition? We were told that it would be at some point during the course of 2021, but can the Minister be more precise about that? Can he also undertake that these issues will be sorted out for Northern Ireland at the same time as they are for general UK-EU trade? There is that aspect to it as well—the movement of goods between the European Union and the rest of the United Kingdom. Our view must be that it should all be done at the one time.

On the current or phase 1 definition, under these regulations, how will the Government ensure that Northern Ireland products move through ports in the Irish Republic to Great Britain? Some 20% of our trade with Great Britain goes through the Irish Republic. That needs to be clarified. The agri-food sector has been mentioned, and it is a very important part of our economy. There is concern among producers in Northern Ireland in that sector that this very wide definition, albeit temporary, could lead to goods from the Republic of Ireland being moved through Northern Ireland to Great Britain, which would potentially create great problems in terms of reputational damage for the Northern Ireland agri-food industry.

That brings us on to the issue of anti-avoidance measures, which the Minister mentioned and which are very important. We are told that they will be produced, I think he said, “in due course”. However, we are now almost at the end of 2020. The new definition for unfettered access for qualifying goods comes in on 1 January and we have yet to see the anti-avoidance measures. We were promised that this would be in place before the end of December. We need to see those very soon so that we can examine them and ensure that only Northern Ireland goods benefit from unfettered access. As has been said, it would be entirely wrong if, along with the other disadvantages that Northern Ireland may now face as a result of the protocol, this advantage of unfettered access was extended to competitors in the Irish Republic or elsewhere in the European Union, who would be only too willing to take advantage. The anti-avoidance measures must be effective, they must work, and the Government must ensure that proper enforcement measures are in place. I would like to know what mechanisms HMRC will have in place to find out who is trying to benefit and what steps and powers it will have.

Clear guidance then needs to be given to Northern Ireland businesses so that they are clear about what products qualify and there is no ambiguity. There needs to be clear messaging to producers in the rest of the United Kingdom about the right of unfettered access for goods coming from Northern Ireland. I have already heard of competitors of businesses in Northern Ireland, in the agri-food sector in particular, lobbying people in Great Britain to warn them off Northern Ireland produce, saying, “This could be contaminated with produce coming from outside and it may not be lawful”. There needs to be clear guidance from the Government in Great Britain on this as well. Clear guidance also needs to be given to Irish businesses to the effect that if there is an attempt to use Northern Ireland as some kind of back-door mechanism to the Great Britain market, that will lead to severe consequences and action will be taken, as opposed to one line in the Finance Act setting out how that is unlawful but without any means of enforcing it.

The idea behind these regulations is welcome in principle, but there are questions that need to be answered about goods going through Irish Republic ports that will also benefit from unfettered access, and questions about the anti-avoidance measures. We are now very late in the day in seeing them, and I would welcome more detail being spelled out on when they will come and how effective they will be at policing these regulations.

Great Britain and Northern Ireland: Access for Goods

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Thursday 12th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, work is under way, as noble Lords have raised before, in seeking to recruit vets and, in other areas of this policy, customs agents. That work is ongoing. We are hopeful that we will achieve the desired end.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

My Lords, earlier this week, the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland jointly wrote to the EU, imploring it to act sensibly and pragmatically to prevent any threat of disruption to food supplies to Northern Ireland. This is about defining goods at risk. We are in the ridiculous situation that the EU, unless it comes to a sensible arrangement, will ensure that all goods coming into Northern Ireland are goods at risk. Tins of beans on a Tesco lorry destined for Belfast, Portadown or Banbridge will be deemed at risk of being smuggled over the border by the supermarket at Dundalk. How ridiculous. If the EU does not see sense, will the Minister undertake that the necessary fallback, safety-net provisions will be there to safeguard Northern Ireland consumers—nationalist and unionist—as the First Minister and Deputy First Minister have said?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, as I said earlier, the Government certainly take extremely seriously the need to ensure the security of this trade. I agree with the noble Lord that the protocol obliges both the UK and the EU to seek to streamline trade between GB and Northern Ireland.