Homelessness Reduction Bill (Seventh sitting)

Debate between Michelle Donelan and Bob Blackman

Committee Debate: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 18th January 2017 Public Bill Committees

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Thank you for the comfort break, Mr Chope. I think Members on both sides of the Committee were ready for it.

As has been said, the Minister’s amendments have been the subject of something of a rollercoaster ride during the deliberations on the draft Bill and the Bill itself. Clause 1 in the original draft Bill was very different from the clause in the draft Bill that was eventually presented to the Select Committee. It was then changed substantially after discussion with the Minister and officials, and we ended up with the Bill that was passed on Second Reading. At that point, many concerns were raised by a large number of groups about clause 1 in particular. I thank all those who came along to see me, particularly towards the end of last year, to discuss the clause. They expressed their concerns and were willing to engage constructively, which enabled us to reach a solution that is acceptable to everyone. They include the National Landlords Association, the Residential Landlords Association, the local government sector—the LGA, London Councils and other local authorities—and homelessness charities including Crisis, Shelter and St Mungo’s.

The process has not been easy. The hon. Member for Hammersmith alluded to that in attempting to gain advice about how to propose amendments that achieve his aims. Given the various different organisations’ requirements, ensuring that we got something that works for everyone has been like squaring a circle.

At times, some of those groups’ interests appeared to me—and, it is fair to say, to the Minister and officials—to be almost irreconcilable. Local authorities said that they want clarity regarding their flexibility to try to save tenancies at risk and to facilitate moves into alternative settled accommodation directly from tenancies that are ending. That is essential if we are going to ensure that they prevent homelessness in as many cases as possible. Landlords and charities were concerned that applicants must receive proactive help so landlords and tenants do not face unnecessary costs and tenants avoid the distressing experience of eviction. It is the custom and practice of many local authorities up and down the country—particularly in London—when they are approached by individuals or families who are threatened with homelessness through a section 21 notice to say, “Go home, wait until the bailiffs arrive and then come to see us. Then we will try to resolve your problem.” As has been alluded to by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester, one of the key concerns in such cases is that landlords incur court and bailiff costs, and the tenants incur costs and end up with county court judgments against them. In many cases, that also overloads—unnecessarily—the justice sector. We therefore have a real dilemma.

The concern expressed right from the start was that in many ways clause 1, without amendment, enshrines many of those bad practices. That was never the intention—it certainly was not my intention as promoter of the Bill. In this process we have therefore tried to ensure that we keep at the centre of our consideration the needs of those who the Bill will affect most: the people who are at risk of losing their home or those who have lost their home.

We have had the wide-ranging involvement of various groups affected by the Bill, in-depth discussions and consideration of potential impacts in order to determine a way forward. It is fair to say that we have looked at all sorts of ways to amend the clause to make it work in the Bill, and we have concluded that that is not the most practical way forward. The amendments tabled by the Minister offer a practical and achievable solution that I hope we can all support and which will be welcomed right across the sector.

Crisis made two points in its briefing that I will refer to. It supports the decision to remove clause 1(2) entirely, to preserve the status quo, which means that local authorities should follow the existing code of guidance that clearly states that households should be considered homeless if they approach the local authority with an expired section 21 notice. Under amendment 17, a household that approaches the local authority with an eviction notice that has yet to expire will automatically be considered to be threatened with homelessness. That will require local authorities to accept a duty to prevent the household from becoming homeless in the first place.

That is a vital aspect of the Bill. The intention in extending the timeframe in which a family or individuals can apply to their local authority for assistance is to ensure that the local authority and the applicants use that time as effectively as possible to prevent a family or individuals from becoming homeless. The risk we have with clause 1 without amendment is that some local authorities—I will not single any out—notwithstanding the fact that they could intervene, would not do so until such time as the family or individuals became homeless.

[Michelle Donelan]

Does my hon. Friend acknowledge that the amendment will simplify the Bill? The initial feedback was that the Bill was far too complicated, and we are now working towards a more simplified Bill that will be easier to roll out.

[Bob Blackman]

Simplifying Bills is always good news. One of the things we originally set out to do was provide detail where required but simplify processes wherever possible. It is fair to say—I ask the Minister when he responds to the debate to make this clear—that we will look at operation in practice. If local authorities are not following both the letter and the spirit of the law, in any code of practice we introduce we will ensure that there are appropriate measures to enforce that, to ensure that local authorities do honour their duties on the concerns rightly raised throughout the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bob Blackman]

I noted during my hon. Friend’s excellent contribution earlier his very detailed knowledge of the technical issues of housing law.

In the various meetings, we considered the different aspects of section 21 and section 8 and whether we could reach a compromise that would satisfy all parties. The drawback, if we set out all the procedures—almost a flow chart—in the Bill, is that unfortunately we cannot address every single reason why someone becomes homeless; we cannot set out every position in relation to section 8 or section 21 notices. Obviously, what we want to do is to make it clear that the position will be that on receipt of a valid section 21 notice or, indeed, section 8 notice, the local authority will treat that as a means of starting the process of combating the threat of homelessness. That is the clear message that I want to impart as promoter of the Bill. We do not want landlords to have to go off and wait and go through a lengthy legal process, which is of no benefit to them or the tenants and, in the long run, costs the local authority substantial amounts of money when it has to put a homeless family who are in priority need into temporary accommodation. This is one of the issues that we looked at in considerable detail. I will not go on too much about this issue and the various discussions that we had. What I can say to my hon. Friend is that we looked at this in detail and concluded that the way to reach a compromise was to accept the Minister’s amendments.

A planned amendment to clause 4 will also ensure greater continuity of help between the prevention and relief duties for households during the eviction process, if such a process follows. I hope that we never get to families being evicted but recognise that we cannot solve all those problems in one go.

I welcome the commitment to provide stronger encouragement for people to engage early through the forms used in the section 21 process and the “How to Rent” guide that the Department has published.

The intention is to recognise that prevention is vital to tackling homelessness. The earlier someone gets help, the less likely they are to end up in crisis. The clause works with the rest of the Bill, which should be seen as an entire package, and with current legislation in placing more emphasis on prevention, encouraging people to seek help at an early stage.

[Michelle Donelan]

While we continue to discuss the clause, I want to stress that it is not only large charities and organisation that have called for and welcomed the extension to 56 days. Charities in my constituency, such as Doorway, which does a great deal of work on homelessness in the Chippenham area, are delighted and have stressed how vital it is to deal with homelessness at the root and try to prevent it in future.

[Bob Blackman]

I acknowledge that local charities are doing brilliant work to combat homelessness. During my discussions on the Bill I have dealt mainly with national charities and some local ones which I visited. All hon. Members will be aware of the local charities that do excellent work, which is why I believe these measures are universally welcomed.

It is not logical that someone in a private sector tenancy who receives a section 21 notice or encounters the threat of homelessness should have to wait until the final 28 days before they will be on the streets. Ensuring that the clause extends that period, with a duty owed by the local authority, must be sensible to help prevent them from becoming homeless.

I trust that the provision will help increase the number of successful preventions carried out by local housing authorities. In the long term that reduces costs for them and, most importantly, the trauma experienced by vulnerable people and households.

There may be instances where the 56-day prevention duty does not work and ends, though the household is not technically homeless, as the local authority finds it reasonable for the household to continue to occupy the property. That could mean that the relief duty does not begin, potentially leaving the household without support. We clearly want to get to the position covered by clause 4 so that, in those circumstances, the prevention duty will run on until the time the relief duty begins. I was delighted that my hon. Friend the Minister mentioned that in his opening remarks.

Mr Chope, you directed that we should look at costs in this part of our consideration. I welcome the Government’s announcement of £48 million and their commitment, under the new burdens doctrine, to fund all the new costs that will result from the Bill. We have already mentioned that there will be amendments to clause 7 on Report. We have already had a debate about that; I will not reopen it. There will be a further amendment to clause 4 and, after further discussions, we might consider amendments to clause 12 as well.

The hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood was critical, not unfairly, of the timing of the release of the money. The Government have considered our detailed discussions of the Bill and its amendments because there are cost implications. It is not fair if we end up with a running budget in Committee. We have made substantial changes and it is fair to say that the proposed changes to clause 7 would lead to additional costs for local authorities. However, I hope that if there are additional costs, the Minister will commit to their being picked up as originally envisaged under the new burdens doctrine.

The LGA and London Councils have welcomed the money that will be available. I note the concerns of the hon. Members for Hammersmith and for Dulwich and West Norwood about whether the money will be enough. Clearly, none of us is in a positon to say without fear or favour that the money will be sufficient. We will have to see how the new legislation operates. It is part of a package.

I have been clear from the word go that the Bill, if enacted, will not produce one more property or one more home. I look forward to the publication of the White Paper—hopefully very soon—which will set out the Government’s method for ensuring we develop more housing. One way to ensure people are not homeless is to provide more housing in the first place. There is a shortage of accommodation in almost every part of the country, and London has particular pressures, as those of us who are London MPs know. Clearly, that will have to be addressed.

Equally, how the funding is provided needs to be considered: £35.4 million in the first year, £12.1 million in the second year and zero in the third year. I have concerns about that. Will we have solved the homelessness problem in this country after three years? As an eternal optimist, I hope we will have done. I did not mention this too much when we talked about the title of the Bill, but the original title was the homelessness prevention Bill. However, I was warned by our Clerk’s predecessor that that would mean it would be illegal for an individual to be homeless, so we should be careful what we attempt to achieve.

As the hon. Member for Hammersmith said, some £633 million in 2014-15 was spent by London councils on temporary accommodation. If we can reduce that burden by a relatively small amount, that will pay for the prevention duty. I am minded of the fact that London authorities in particular have embarked on large amounts of efforts to combat homelessness through prevention duties, and that is welcome. However, there is clearly going to be a need to review the funding and review how this works.

Homelessness Reduction Bill (Third sitting)

Debate between Michelle Donelan and Bob Blackman

Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 7th December 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Bob Blackman]

I thank the hon. Member for Hammersmith and other Members for the brief debate we have had on these amendments. As the Minister and other colleagues said, the amendments would remove the right of review.

We should remember that local housing authorities will be dealing with a much greater volume of people whom they will have a duty to assist. Those people are extremely vulnerable. They have come into the local housing authority, probably for the first time, because they are either threatened with or suffering from homelessness. They are likely to agree to almost anything that the local authority says on first sight because they are in a position of seeking help and advice. When they go away with a plan put together with the local authority, they may discover after reading it and taking further advice that what is being offered is not reasonable. It would be quite wrong to remove their right to appeal and have the decisions taken about their case for help and assistance reviewed. I am sure that that is not the hon. Gentleman’s intention, but that would be the effect.

My hon. Friends on the Select Committee will know that during our inquiry, we took a great deal of evidence on that. Local housing authorities do not always do what they are supposed to do. They do not always adhere to everything expected of them—the mystery shopping exercises substantiated that during our inquiry. It is important therefore that reviews are possible for people who claim and need assistance from a local authority. That is why the reviews are spelled out loud and clear in the Bill. My concern is that the amendments would remove the protections for applicants.

I have every sympathy with the hon. Member for Westminster North in respect of potential delays. The Minister made an important commitment to monitor the process to ensure that we do not have review after review, and delay after delay, preventing people from securing accommodation. The resources provided to assist local authorities in delivering the duty are vital.

[Michelle Donelan]

Does my hon. Friend agree that our current system often unintentionally exacerbates the problems for those who face homelessness? That is why it is so important we are careful with every amendment not to do the same thing. We are trying to rectify the situation.

[Bob Blackman]

As my hon. Friend says, the clear intention behind the Bill is to have a comprehensive strategy on dealing with homelessness and to reduce homelessness.

The aim is that no one ever becomes homeless. If they get help, advice and prevention measures from the local authority, they will not reach that terrible position. However, we know there are problems in local authorities at the moment and that many are not delivering what they are supposed to deliver. This group of amendments would remove the right of review, which is vital for vulnerable people. I trust that the hon. Member for Hammersmith, having heard the debate and the commitment from the Minister, will withdraw his amendment.