Extremism Definition and Community Engagement

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Thursday 14th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I congratulate the hon. Member on his election as Member of Parliament for Rochdale. As he rightly points out, we have known each other for several decades. During that time, I have always admired his oratorical skills and the passion with which he makes his case. There is nothing in this definition that any hon. Member should fear will inhibit them in making their case. While I passionately disagree with the hon. Gentleman on so many issues, he has the same rights as every other Member of this House and deserves to be listened to with respect as he makes his case.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

By stating that a free society requires that the Muslim religion accommodates itself to the same level of scrutiny, criticism and even blasphemy that Christianity has become accustomed to, am I straying into the Secretary of State’s permissive environment? I am not an extremist, am I?

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend is many, many things: learned, wise, kind, a champion of the New Forest and a distinguished former educationalist. He is not an extremist, and I shall continue to admire the rigour with which he prosecutes his case.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Monday 4th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

They certainly cannot rely on a Labour Government, because the Leader of the Opposition just this morning has been talking about his admiration for Margaret Thatcher and cost cutting. I am afraid all the hon. Lady is doing is raising false hopes that have no chance of being satisfied under a Labour Government.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

T5.   [R] My interest is in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Why is it Government policy to deny a landlord and tenant the ability to agree a mutually convenient fixed-term tenancy?

Renters (Reform) Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

2nd reading
Monday 23rd October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

Order. I will allow the right hon. Gentleman to do that in just a moment, but first let me set the record straight. The Clerks have informed me that the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) was in the Chamber from the start. I apologise. I would not wish that to influence the decision of the Secretary of State on who he gives way to.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

I accept entirely the force of what the Secretary of State has said, but clearly under section 8 many landlords will, for perfectly legitimate reasons—to get rid of a tenant for antisocial behaviour or whatever—have recourse to section 21 simply because of the convenience and ease, particularly in the face of tenants who make particular difficulties. That is why the provisions that he is making in respect of the courts being able to deal with such things effectively and efficiently are vital as part of the reform that he is bringing forward.

[Michael Gove]

Actually, I agree with my right hon. Friend. It is vital that we ensure that the courts system is reformed and that we have end-to-end digitisation. We have seen section 21 abused, but if a determined tenant wishes, for whatever reason, to ignore section 21, that ends up in the courts anyway.

[Michael Gove]

It is not so much this Bill; it is more the steps that we are taking in order to improve the justice system that will help, but I would be grateful if my hon. Friend would write to me about that particular situation. It is always the case, no matter how well framed any piece of legislation might be, that if we are dealing with unscrupulous characters who seek to evade justice, we have to rely on the agencies of the criminal justice system to pursue them.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise; I should have referred to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests when I intervened.

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend is nearly always right and always honourable.

Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

2nd reading
Monday 3rd July 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Michael Gove)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I hope the House will allow me first to pay tribute to Lord Kerslake, who, as the House will know, died over the weekend after a short illness. Bob Kerslake was a true public servant, steeped throughout his professional life in local and central Government, and wholly dedicated throughout his career to improving the lives of citizens. He began his career with Greater London Council and went on to run, with distinction, Sheffield City Council—the fourth largest in England—before making the switch to the corridors of Whitehall. He was the first chief executive of the Homes and Communities Agency, the forerunner to Homes England, a vital arm of Government in making sure that affordable housing is available to all. He was deservedly promoted to become permanent secretary to the Department for Communities and Local Government and, later, head of the home civil service, where he served with great distinction and kindness. Speaking personally as a Minister in the Governments where he served, I was deeply grateful to Bob for his dedication, his generosity of spirit and his wise advice.

After leaving Government, Bob led the inquiry into the 2017 Manchester Arena bombing. More recently, he chaired the UK2070 Commission on regional inequalities. My colleagues and I greatly valued his work on homelessness with the Kerslake commission, and I think we all agree that his energy, knowledge and wisdom will be greatly missed. I know that right hon. and hon. Members across the House will wish to join me in sending our deepest condolences to his family in their grief. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] I thank you, Mr Speaker, and colleagues across the House.

The Bill does four things: it honours a manifesto promise to which this Government recommitted in the last Queen’s Speech; it affirms the important principle that UK foreign policy is a matter for the UK Government; it ensures that local authorities concentrate on serving their residents, not directing resources inefficiently; and, critically, it provides protection for minority communities, especially the Jewish community, against campaigns that harm community cohesion and fuel antisemitism.

In our 2019 manifesto, this Government committed to

“ban public bodies from imposing their own direct or indirect boycotts, disinvestment or sanctions campaigns against foreign countries.”

The Bill does just that—no more and no less.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

I think it does a fifth thing, which is to introduce a thought crime. Were I to be a leader of a local authority opposed to the provisions of this Bill, once it became an Act, if I continued to say that I disagreed with its provisions and what I might wish to have done with the powers I retained were those provisions not to have been made law, I would be breaking the law. That cannot be right in a free society, can it?

[Michael Gove]

It would not be right if the Bill restricted local authorities from adopting policies that they considered to be in line with Government policy. It is also the case that it would be problematic if we were to restrict freedom of speech in any way, but the Bill does not do that.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I appreciate the point that the hon. Lady makes, and she is right to draw attention to and thank those who exercise caring responsibilities. The family is the foundation of our welfare society, even before the creation of the welfare state, and we need to work in partnership with carers everywhere. I know that she and others—including, if I may say so, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey)—have come forward with proposals to ensure that we can better support carers. It is the mission of the Secretaries of State at the DWP and the Department of Health and Social Care to see what more can be done, particularly in the wake of the covid pandemic, which has placed particular pressures on some of the most vulnerable in our society.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Where families make a choice that one parent will remain at home for full-time childcare, their tax treatment is much, much less eligible than for couples where both parents work. If we are to have true freedom of choice in childcare arrangements, there is an agenda on taxation that we need to address.

[Michael Gove]

I know that my right hon. Friend and other Members of this House, including my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Miriam Cates), have raised interesting questions about how we can better support families overall. Both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer are absolutely determined to explore what more we can do, but tax changes are, and always have been, above my pay grade. They are a matter for the Chancellor of the Exchequer in consultation with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and I know better—particularly after recent weeks—than to try to guide their hands.

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

2nd reading
Wednesday 8th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I am allergic to power grabs. I am entirely in favour of relaxing the grip of central Government and strengthening the hand of local government, which is what the planning reforms here do. The reference to the national development management policies is simply a way to make sure that the provisions that exist within the national planning policy framework—a document that is honoured by Members on both sides of the House, of course—do not need to be replicated by local authorities when they are putting together their local plans. It is simply a measure to ensure that local planners, whose contribution to enhancing our communities I salute and whose role and professionalism is important, can spend more time engaging with local communities, helping them to develop neighbourhood plans, and making sure that our plans work.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

May I suggest some powers that the Secretary of State might like to grab?

[Michael Gove]

Yes.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

I suggest that the Secretary of State addresses a problem to which national parks are particularly prone, where a historic lawful development certificate is acquired because a caravan was previously located there, affording huge development on the basis of permitted development rights over which the national park authority and the planning authority have no control. That is a power that needs to be grabbed and given back to local authorities.

[Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

And areas of outstanding natural beauty.

EU Withdrawal Agreement

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for suggesting the lucrative opportunity of exporting conflict diamonds, but just how burdensome will the additional paperwork of which he spoke be?

[Michael Gove]

Given that there is very little trade that I am aware of in conflict diamonds from Northern Ireland to Great Britain—if anything, it is an even smaller trade than, for example, endangered species products such as tiger skins—I suspect that the bureaucratic burden will be so small as to be almost naked—sorry, I mean invisible to the naked eye. [Laughter.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Thursday 1st October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

What recent discussions the Government have had with the devolved Administrations on tackling the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)]

We and the devolved Administrations recently published a joint statement showing our commitment to work together to protect the health of our citizens, to protect our communities, and to enhance our economic recovery. Ministers from all the devolved Administrations attended Cobra on 22 September following bilateral discussions with the Prime Minister the day before. Of course I have regular meetings with the First Ministers of all the Administrations.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

If the effort against covid is a war, then the first principles are the selection and maintenance of the aim. In March, the aim was to flatten the curve and protect the NHS. Has it changed?

[Michael Gove]

No. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, as a distinguished Territorial Army officer as well as a very successful former Defence Minister. Yes, our aim is to flatten the curve, to protect the NHS and to save lives.

EU Exit: End of Transition Period

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Some of that detail has already been published, but there is more that depends on the negotiations. If he gets the companies in his constituency with particular concerns to get in touch with me directly, I will work with him to provide them with the information we have.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

The markets Bill does not break any law, does it?

[Michael Gove]

This Government believe entirely in the rule of law.

Civil Service Appointments

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Tuesday 30th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

It may surprise the hon. Gentleman, but, no, I do not. Of course, we benefit from impartial and authoritative advice, but, ultimately, Ministers decide. It is certainly the case that, in the Scottish Government, I know that the excellent civil servants there provide robust challenge, but, just occasionally, Ministers of the Scottish Government sometimes take a different view.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

You would think that nothing had changed since the fall of Thomas Cromwell. Has my right hon. Friend read Hilary Mantel’s “The Mirror and the Light”? It is not really like that, is it?

[Michael Gove]

I have not had the opportunity to read Ms Mantel’s latest novel, but I hope to have the opportunity to do so over the summer. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to point out that, historically, government has been carried on by a mixture of those who are dedicated public servants in the civil service and outside appointees of a political hue.

Public Services

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Tuesday 28th April 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

We do value every life. Every life is precious, and the deaths of those in care homes, in our hospitals and in the community are a source of grief, sadness and loss to us all. The figures that we produce are the figures that the Office for National Statistics validates. It is vital that Government figures are supported by the ONS, so that they are robust and detailed, but we will work with everyone constructively to ensure that we have the appropriate data and our response is tailored in accordance with those facts and with the science.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con) [V]]

I thank my right hon. Friend for the “Pick for Britain” initiative, but why are the employers being so picky, with many people being told that their services are not required? What assessment has been made of the potential impact of mandatory quarantine on air travellers, which will certainly devastate business travel?

[Michael Gove]

I would hope that all employers will make use of the willing hands available. I am not the most dextrous of Members of this House, but even I was able to help with the tattie howking when I was younger, so all willing hands can help in our fields at this time. On the question of quarantine and how we deal with international travel, it is important that we ensure that we depress the infection curve here, but of course we are keeping under review our approach towards international travellers.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Desmond Swayne

Thursday 27th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, but I am afraid that his question is wholly misconceived. We have absolutely no intention of doing anything other than honouring the withdrawal agreement, honouring the protocol that we have signed, and making sure that we achieve the political declaration’s aim of ensuring that we have a comprehensive free trade agreement with no tariffs, no quotas and no quantitative restrictions.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend think the EU has spotted that we have actually left and no longer need to negotiate our terms of release?

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend has made a very good point. There are a range of views—a spectrum of opinions—in European capitals, but I think that the pennies, the pfennigs and the centimes are dropping as a result of the Prime Minister’s speeches and the lecture given recently by the Prime Minister’s sherpa David Frost.