Residential Home Closures

Debate between Michael Ellis and John Howell

Thursday 10th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) on securing this debate. I am grateful to him, and to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for permitting me to contribute to this important Adjournment debate, as the regular proceedings do not normally allow for that. The hon. Gentleman spoke very well and advocated his position very effectively. I agree with much of what he said.

I admire Scope, as I am sure the hon. Member for Luton South does. It is an excellent charity and its staff do wonderful work. They clearly care about the people in their charge, for whom they are duty bound to care. Hampton House, in my constituency, should not close. It should not close for the very reason that it is not an institution, but a home for more than a dozen people. We are told that this is not about economics, Government policy or local authority decisions; it is a policy shift. There has been a decision to move away from a residential setting to more of a care home setting. This may well work in many cases—the hon. Gentleman alluded to them—especially for those who are disabled who are entering this kind of care arrangement, but it does not work, and is not working, for those who have lived in Hampton House in my constituency for literally decades, and in one case nearly four decades.

In the very short time allowed to me in this instance, I want to put on record my suggestion that we work with Scope to find an alternative to its proposal to close Hampton House, and ask it please to look again and please think again. Those who have lived there for decades are firmly wedded to its atmosphere, staff and ambience—to everything about a home—as you or I, Madam Deputy Speaker, would be. There must be alternatives.

[John Howell (Henley) (Con)]

The point is that the sense of community is being destroyed. Whatever arrangement we come to with Scope, we have to find a way of keeping that sense of community for the people who want to keep it.

Forensic Science Service

Debate between Michael Ellis and John Howell

Monday 27th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

It was Sir Robert Peel who set up the Laboratory of the Government Chemist in 1842 to analyse alcohol and tobacco products. It remained in situ until 1996, when it was privatised. There has, in effect, been a managed decline of the Forensic Science Service for years, including under the previous Labour Government.

[John Howell (Henley) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree with my constituents who work as forensic scientists for LGC that since 1991, when the market was opened up, there has been more innovation and investment, quality has been driven up, and prices and turnaround times have been driven down?

[Michael Ellis]

I do agree with that.

In Germany and the United States, both of which are first-world countries and in the group of the 20 leading industrialised nations, it can take up to six weeks for routine forensic results to come through, whereas in this country, as the LGC managing director has confirmed, similar results can be obtained in two to three days. That has been the case for years. Opposition Members express concern about the private sector and ask, “What price justice?” I say to them that the private sector has been used in forensic services for years.

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[Michael Ellis]

I agree absolutely with my hon. Friend—I have made that point already. The reality is that the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Crown Prosecution Service would not seek to put a case before a judge and jury that relied on someone who was not actually an expert. Therefore, pursuing that argument is clutching at straws.

[John Howell]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way again—he is being incredibly generous—but may I take him back to the point that he was edging towards making? By proposing a £50 million subsidy in March 2009 for the transition arrangements, did the previous Government send a message that they were not interested in the private sector? Does he agree that that did more damage than anything else to their scope for investment at that time?

[Michael Ellis]

I agree. When the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) was Home Secretary, he accepted the recommendations of the McFarland review into the future of forensic science services. The then Government said that the review

“makes a number of helpful observations and recommendations aimed at improving FSS performance, but the most fundamental is that it should be transformed from a trading fund into a government-owned company as a precursor to development into a private sector classified public/private partnership…I am confident that the proposed change will stimulate and broaden the market”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 17 July 2003; Vol. 651, c. WA167-168.]

The proposals are an extension of that position. The right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) said at that time:

“The status quo is not an option, and it is clear that we need to act to ensure that the FSS remains a leading-edge forensic organisation.”—[Official Report, 5 November 2011; Vol. 412, c. 280WH.]

That is what will happen now. The Forensic Science Service needs to provide an excellent service, but it need not be in Government hands to do so. Farming it out to the private sector is simply an extension of the current position, to the tune of between 35% and 50%, depending on whom we listen to.

The Committee report states its

“disappointment at the historical inadequacies in government decision-making that brought the FSS to its current dire financial situation.”

I recognise that, but the Committee wished to place

“on record that we consider much of the responsibility for the current problems facing the FSS to lie with previous administrations.”

I am happy to accept that point. I happen to agree with it, but I would go further and say that the FSS is in its current position almost solely because of how it was run down under the previous Labour Administration.

I note that the Committee agreed with the Government that allowing the FSS to go into administration would have been undesirable. I presume that Labour Members agree with that, because allowing the FSS to go into administration would not have been good for the criminal justice system or for FSS staff.

It is clear that the wider interests of the criminal justice system in this country are best met by the actions that the Government are taking. They are taking the bull by the horns, which has to be done to provide the continuation of the excellent service from forensic scientists and experts, who have given such excellent support to the wider criminal justice system in this country for many years.

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[John Howell]

I feel trumped in the television stakes, as one would expect.

[Michael Ellis]

Dr Who was born and brought up in my constituency.

[John Howell]

I fear that this is turning into a debate about who has got what television show—