Children’s Funeral Costs

Debate between Marcus Jones and Baroness Keeley

Monday 28th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Just to reiterate, it is always difficult to know how others feel in such circumstances, although it is always easy to say we do when we have not been in those circumstances ourselves. I am a father of two children, and I am very lucky, but losing a child must be the worst thing that can happen to a parent.

It is important that the arrangements that the state can put in place in such circumstances are as helpful in giving support to grieving parents as they can be. This is clearly, therefore, a matter of great sensitivity and importance, and it is incumbent on all public sector organisations with a role to play to ensure that they are understanding and helpful.

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for setting out this issue so powerfully. It certainly cannot have been easy for her to come to the House tonight to make a speech on this subject. She has shown great strength and courage in bringing this issue to the House tonight. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”]

Let me start by setting out the context in which my Department and local government operate. As democratically elected organisations, local councils are independent of central Government and are responsible for managing their budgets in line with local priorities. I understand that a number of local authorities already choose to waive fees for children’s funerals. I hope all local authorities would carefully consider their policy in this area, and whether it is right to go further in the light of the concerns the hon. Lady has raised today. I note that very recently Telford and Wrekin Council and Clipstone Parish Council have decided to do just that, as the hon. Lady requested.

There is also a role that central Government can play. The Government recognise that the period following a death will have emotional, social and financial impacts for the bereaved, and people may need to draw on a wide range of support at that difficult time. It is for that reason that the Department for Work and Pensions operates the social fund funeral expenses payments scheme, which makes a significant contribution towards a funeral for families in receipt of a qualifying income benefit. The scheme meets the full necessary costs of a cremation or burial, including the purchase of a grave with exclusive burial rights. Other costs, such as the coffin, and church and funeral directors’ fees, are limited to a maximum scheme payment of £700. However, there is no restriction on the type of funeral expenses that can be claimed under this category, and applying the limit allows the bereaved a choice of how best to spend the payment.

I certainly hear what the hon. Lady has said about the social fund, and I absolutely understand her concerns about the way in which it works. It is good that we have on the Treasury Bench today my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Welfare Delivery, from the Department for Work and Pensions, which operates the scheme, and she will have heard what the hon. Lady had to say about the scheme.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I hope that the Minister has listened to and heard what has been said. As we have heard, parents in a fog of bereavement cannot even think of filling in DWP forms, and a grant of £700 goes nowhere towards the cost of a funeral in many parts of the country—it costs thousands. My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) has put an incredibly courageous case for having that cost covered by the Government. It cannot be right to make a local council choose between doing this or providing social care, and that might be the choice that it has. Will the Minister think again and not give my hon. Friend, or any of us, pat answers but really take this away and think about it?

[Mr Jones]

I fully understand the points that the hon. Lady makes and the sentiment behind them. With regard to the social fund, the maximum payments for certain costs are limited to £700, but there are other funds that can be realised. I appreciate what she says in relation to how the fund is accessed. In many cases, the funding from the social fund funeral expenses payments and social fund budgeting loans offers an adequate level of support. The amount spent by the Government in 2015-16 was £40 million.

I realise that this evening I am unable to give the hon. Member for Swansea East the assurances that she has come to the House to seek and will not be able to go as far as she would like, but I recognise the very significant pain that she has articulated to the House, and the very significant pain that families find themselves in when they are in the same situation.

Local Government Finance (England)

Debate between Marcus Jones and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Marcus Jones)]

I thank hon. Members for this passionate debate, which it is my pleasure to close. These are important times for local government. The devolution of power and resources from Whitehall is gathering momentum. Public services need to find innovative ways to save money and support services for local people.

I take the opportunity to thank local government for its hard work and dedication across the country over the past five years. More savings need to be made as we finish the job of eliminating the largest deficit in our post-war history. The finance settlement that we have discussed today will help councils to continue their excellent work. We have consulted carefully, and I am grateful to hon. Members—particularly Government Members—for bringing their constituents’ views to us during the consultation.

I want to cover some of the points that hon. Members have raised. The opening salvo from the hon. Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed) was nothing more than scaremongering and the politics of fear. There was certainly a lot of heat, but there was not much light. He showed no contrition whatsoever for the deficit that the previous Labour Government left behind, which we have had to deal with. He made no mention of the fact that, only months ago, the Labour party went into a general election saying that it would cut funding to local government. He might not know his Kent from his Surrey, but he is the former leader of Lambeth Council, so I think we should give him some credit for his knowledge of local government. I am sure he will be keen to know that Lambeth Council has supported the idea of transitional measures:

“Transitional measures are usually employed where a new distribution methodology is introduced to ensure significant shifts are not experienced one way or the other. The Council believes this is sensible on the basis that the control totals are adjusted such that those benefitting are not adversely affected.”

No council has been adversely affected as a consequence of our response to the provisional settlement, but the hon. Gentleman seemed to deny that. He gave Government Members a considerable lecture about council tax, which I found absolutely astounding. During the last five years, council tax has been reduced by 11%, on average. He did not mention the fact that while the Labour party was in government, council tax doubled.

My hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) made strong representations during the process on behalf of his constituents. I hope that he was reassured by the comments of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, who is certainly listening to the challenges faced by the island that my hon. Friend represents.

The Chair of the Communities and Local Government Committee, the hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), made a sensible contribution. He welcomed the move to localism and local funding for local services. He asked when details of the distribution of the better care fund would be made available. I reassure him that there will be a response to the consultation on the better care fund very soon, and we will be able to give further details.

My hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) welcomed devolution, the transitional arrangements and the increase in the rural services delivery grant. My hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) used his considerable experience of local government and as a Minister to support the proposal. He made a sensible and excellent point about entrenching efficiency. That is absolutely achievable now that we are offering councils the ability to take a four-year budget if they so wish.

I want to mention the speech by the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Jim McMahon), who is no longer in his place. He made some appalling comments about my noble Friend Baroness Williams. I can assure hon. Members that the transitional grant is based purely on supporting areas that have encountered the largest reduction in the revenue support grant. The approach he took towards my noble Friend Baroness Williams was very sad and not becoming of him.

[Barbara Keeley]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Jones]

I will not give way, because I do not have the time.

My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) has been an effective advocate for rural areas, as he was again today. I am glad that he has welcomed the Government’s response to the consultation.

The hon. Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman) made a very strong speech, but I was surprised because if she feels so strongly why did she not respond to the consultation? If she had done so or if she had looked at the figures closely, she would have seen that Darlington has actually benefited from the way in which the settlement has been prepared.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Marcus Jones and Baroness Keeley

Monday 8th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I know that my hon. Friend is a real campaigner on this issue. As he identifies, the Better Care Fund is paying dividends. We are seeing significant joint working through the Better Care Fund, which, in many areas, is reducing delayed transfers of care from hospital. We are absolutely intent on spreading best practice around all areas of the country. Plans are also in place to improve areas that are the most challenged.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I am afraid that what we have just heard is nonsense. Government funding for social care falls far short of what is needed. Directors of adult social services tell us that £4.6 billion has already been cut from adult social care, and the gap is growing at £700 million a year. The social care precept will raise only £400 million a year, and the Better Care Fund, which the Minister mentioned, does not start until next year, at £105 million a year. Government Ministers must consider that they are risking the collapse of social care because their funding is too little and too late.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Marcus Jones)]

The funding coming into the Better Care Fund—£1.5 billion—is all new money for adult social care, and it is going directly to local authorities. The absolute key is the integration of health and social care, and as I have set out to the hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) and my hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris), the Government are determined to achieve that integration.