Draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) Order 2017

Debate between Lyn Brown and Sarah Newton

Thursday 20th April 2017 General Committees

[Sarah Newton]

I welcome the constructive comments of the hon. Member for West Ham and will attempt to respond to them now. She raised some detailed points about evidence from the ACMD, and I will be pleased to write to her about them. She is right to say that all our decisions are based on the ACMD’s advice; I am very grateful for the work of Dr Owen Bowden-Jones, who so ably chairs the organisation, and that of the people who share their expertise to enable us to make the best possible decisions. I will write to the hon. Lady about the details, but I will say a few words about our approach. We asked the ACMD to look at the scope of the scientific research on the particular questions that she raised. That work is ongoing, and I will give an indication in my letter of when we anticipate that the ACMD will complete it.

It is really important that we understand how harmful these substances are. We must make every effort not only to send out very clear messages about their harmfulness, but to restrict supply—both internationally, by preventing such substances from coming into our country, and domestically, by preventing those that are being manufactured here from getting into the hands of the vulnerable people whom the hon. Lady described so well in her speech. Equally, some controlled substances can have a positive medicinal effect, and it is important that we have a regime that permits that to happen. I am very pleased that the ACMD is getting on with looking into and revising the structure of it to ensure that it is really fit for purpose and that we are striking the right balance. I look forward to its coming back to me shortly with its review.

I hope that that has addressed the issues that the hon. Lady raised about these substances. I agree with her that although it is essential that we take action to ban such substances, as we are doing today, that is not everything that we need to do. We must also prevent people of all ages from desiring to take them in the first place, in order to prevent all the terrible consequences—the health consequences for users and the consequences for society more broadly.

The hon. Lady invited me to comment on the Government’s direction of travel. It is absolutely clear that, irrespective of whether it has been published, the strategy is really focused on an evidence base for how we can best educate young people in particular about the harms of wanting to take drugs. We need to enable them to be resilient and understand the risks so that they do not even want to take them in the first place. I am sure she agrees that the Government’s decision to make PSHE and sex and relationships education compulsory is vital for that. Extremely good work is already being done by PSHE teachers throughout the country. We also have the excellent resource “Frank”, which pools all the best available information for young people.

[Lyn Brown]

I was trying to be sisterly by not intervening any earlier, but the issue of “Frank” has got to me. When we discussed “Frank” on the Psychoactive Substances Bill Committee, we agreed across parties that it was not the best resource that could be available and that it needed a massive overhaul and update. I say gently to the Minister that it would be lovely if she wrote to me to let me know how that work is progressing.

[Sarah Newton]

I appreciate the spirit and manner of the hon. Lady’s question, and I can assure her that the comments that she made were obviously taken on board. That work is ongoing, and it is regularly updated. I have met the PSHE Association, and I have been to conferences where there have been experts from around the world, so we are constantly learning and updating that resource.

It is pleasing to note that the number of young people taking drugs is really declining. The high was in 2003, and the number now is less than half the number then; it is down to just over 8% of young people who are experimenting with drugs. That is 8% too many, but it is a significant reduction in the number of young people who want to take drugs in the first place.

The interventions to support people to come off drugs are also improving. The number of people going into therapy has increased—it is up on the 2010 number. People get access to that treatment, and the percentage of people who are sustaining not taking drugs after they leave treatment is about 80%, so we have seen significant progress.

I would love to get on and publish the drugs strategy, but I assure Members that even without that strategy we are moving with vigour and at pace to address what we would all agree is a scourge for the people concerned and the communities involved. The hon. Lady mentioned the situation in Manchester. I have been in touch with the police there, and they have reassured me that they have the resources needed. The police budget has been protected, but operational decisions about how the police are deployed are very much down to the police themselves. Of course, measures such as the one we are now considering will give them more enforcement powers. They will be able to go after people even for possession offences, to reduce the prevalence of this harm on the street.

I hope that I have given enough evidence today to enable Members to agree with me that this order is an important step in tackling a very challenging issue for our country, and that alongside work to prevent people from taking drugs and to make sure that good-quality recovery opportunities are always available for people, it will really help to prevent the harms that we associate with these substances.

Question put and agreed to.

Disclosure and Barring Service

Debate between Lyn Brown and Sarah Newton

Wednesday 26th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Sarah Newton]

I completely understand that if there is job insecurity, that makes it difficult to retain good-quality staff. I visited the Metropolitan police unit only a few weeks ago and witnessed the training process. The decision-making process is complex, and it takes time to train staff. Even when the DBS sits down with the Met or any other police force that is having difficulty and agrees extra funding, it takes at least six months to train someone so that they can carry out the checks.

The hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood is right that the PCS union has acknowledged that there has been a change of leadership at the Met. The Home Office has provided considerable support to help improve processes, and the DBS has funded more than 100 new staff, so there has been a huge amount of effort. The hon. Lady understands, as I do, that more of the staff have now been given full-time contracts. The DBS sits down with the police forces each year and agrees the contracts based on the anticipated number of checks. If the number of checks requested goes up, more staff have to be recruited. Sometimes it is efficient and right to have temporary staff; on other occasions we need more full-time staff. Such contractual decisions are made between the DBS and the police forces. I have also seen that no stone is left unturned. The Met has asked for support from other police forces that have a surplus of staff with the right expertise to help. So I can absolutely assure the hon. Lady that every effort has been made between the DBS and the police forces to get the necessary resources in.

Only two police forces are not meeting their timeliness performance targets: the Met and Surrey. In the case of Surrey, a relatively small number of people are affected and a recovery plan has been agreed with the DBS, which is going well. I can share that information and be certain about it because the DBS regularly publishes the data on its own website. That addresses one of the issues that the hon. Lady raised, about the transparency of data. Opposition Members have quoted extensively from performance data, so there is not an issue of transparency here. Those data are on local police force performance as well as the DBS’s own organisational performance, and the next data will be published later this month. I look at such data on a daily basis.

[Lyn Brown]

I am struggling with what the Minister is telling us. First, we know there has been a problem in the Met since 2008, which is a long time. We know that the delays in the Met are massive. If the DBS has been placing money in the Metropolitan Police Service so that it can get the checks done, then it must have been significantly underpaying the Met for several years in order for us to have got to the current situation. I am afraid I cannot accept what the Minister is saying about that.

The Minister also tells us that only two police forces are not meeting the timescales, but in the Government’s own assessment, on the red, amber and green scale, 17 of the 50 forces were judged to be providing a second-rate service or worse. It is not only two police forces; by the Government’s own admission, it is more.

[Sarah Newton]

The hon. Lady raises a couple of points. The data I am referring to are the most recent. We will get another tranche of data this month, so she will be able to see for herself what the information is.

On how the Metropolitan police or any other police force is funded, the fact is that the DBS funds police units to do police checks. Whether they have received adequate funding over a certain period of time is a fair question. I have been to Liverpool and had conversations with the DBS, and I am monitoring the situation on a weekly basis. I will go back to the DBS to make sure that all the recovery plans we have discussed are implemented. I can say no more to reassure the hon. Lady about how seriously I take this issue. I and my officials are focused on it, and I am regularly involved with the DBS to make sure we tackle it.

As I have said, I visited the Metropolitan police unit recently. The hon. Lady has acknowledged that significant extra resources and changes in leadership have been put in place, and the unit is processing 20% more applications than it receives. That gives me some confidence that it will reduce the backlog over time. If the unit was processing only the number of applications that it was receiving, we would not have any confidence that it was dealing with the backlog, but it is, and 20% is significant. I am therefore confident that it will make significant progress.

It is important that the DBS continues to work closely with the Metropolitan police and any other police forces that are having difficulties to make sure that they are given the necessary resources to do the job. I know that the Metropolitan police take the matter seriously. I have been to Sidcup and spent time with the team there, and they talked me through what they were doing about it. They know full well that I will be back again to personally check up on their progress.

I will go through the range of other questions that hon. Members asked me on issues from portability to escalation and redress.

Draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) order 2016

Debate between Lyn Brown and Sarah Newton

Thursday 20th October 2016 General Committees

[Sarah Newton]

I would like to thank the hon. Member for West Ham and my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford for their interesting contributions. I welcome the hon Member for West Ham to her new position and look forward to working with her. She rightly says that this is an incredibly important area of policy. What could be more important for us as parliamentarians than keeping the communities we represent safe? I welcome the hon. Lady’s support. As she says, new psychoactive substances have already cost too many lives. The Psychoactive Substances Act is sending out a clear message: this Government will take whatever action is necessary to keep our families and communities safe. These drugs are not legal or safe and we will not allow them to be sold in this country. The hon. Lady is quite right that it is a game of cat and mouse and the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 enabled us to get ahead of the game.

But where drugs continue to emerge, which are sufficiently harmful to warrant control under the Misuse of Drugs Act, the Government have a duty to impose that higher regime of control, both to support enforcement in restricting the supply of these substances and to send out the message that these drugs are too harmful to be in circulation.

Our approach to drugs must continue to be proportionate, informed by evidence of harm and ACMD advice, and characterised by a balanced response. The ACMD’s advice today is precisely that: it is proportionate and appropriate to control these emerging drugs under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. We are acting on that advice and will continue to do so.

I would like to reassure everyone that the Government understand that the response to drugs needs to be broader than restricting supply through legislation. I have made it my priority to take action to prevent the harms caused by drug misuse. I have first-hand experience of working with drug users and understand the complexities that they as individuals have to overcome in their recovery process, before we can begin to consider the wider harms and costs to our families, friends and communities. I fully recognise the scale of the challenge.

As a Minister I have already seen a range of excellent work across the country, including in Durham where the police are working with local partners and charities, including the Centre for Change, to tackle the supply, to empower people to resist drugs and to put in place highly effective programmes to help them recover from their dependence. That is why it is so important to have a balanced drugs strategy.

I can assure the Committee that the Government are committed to publishing a new cross-Government drugs strategy and will do so soon. That will include new action to prevent the onset of drug use and its escalation at all ages through universal action, combined with more targeted action for individual people.

That includes placing much greater emphasis on building resilience. This is where I would like to go into more detail to answer the questions about the educational tools and resources that are available. Since the introduction of the Psychoactive Substances Act we have developed a range of new and specific resources.

Yesterday I was at the national conference, sponsored by Mentor-ADEPIS, of all of those involved in our country. It pulled together all the best evidence and practice available to educators, teachers, parents and people working with young offenders, right across the spectrum. It is worth noting that ADEPIS has been praised by the United Nations as an example of best practice.

We really are leading the world in this area. One only needs to look at the data that clearly show the number of people across all age groups, particularly young people, who are no longer tempted to take drugs. We have seen really good evidence and data to show that fewer people are taking drugs and, indeed, alcohol.

Of course, we are not complacent. The number of deaths from people misusing drugs is too high. One person dying from taking drugs is one too many. Although I am not at all complacent, it is worth noting the success and achievement of those involved in drug education, prevention and rehabilitation services.

“Talk to Frank”, which came under some criticism from the hon. Member for West Ham, has been updated since the Psychoactive Substances Act. We do keep the databases and portals for the information and tools available regularly updated. We put evidence at the heart of everything that we do. It was interesting, when meeting the practitioners who are day in, day out on the front line of delivering this education in schools and a variety of settings, to hear the importance of using an evidence base.

Some things that we think, with very good intentions, will absolutely do the trick—for example, the short, sharp shock of ex-drug addicts or police officers going into schools—do not always work. Enabling young people to be more resilient, to focus on their health and wellbeing, and to make risk assessments and manage their own risky behaviours produce a far more sustainable and effective result.

I hope that by elaborating that, I have reassured the Committee that there is a lot of very good work going on.

[Lyn Brown]

The Minister has clearly supported our position on personal, social, health and economic education in her short statement. I am grateful to her for that. I say gently, and with a smile on my face, I will be pressing her on that in future. Will she tell me, however, when the Government will actually produce the strategy?

Finally, the Minister was kind enough to nod and smile at me when I was talking about Sativex. It would be great if she could tell us, on the record, that she will talk to her colleagues in the Department of Health and NICE about making it available to patients in England.

[Sarah Newton]

The hon. Lady anticipated my next point, which was to address the concerns that a number of honourable colleagues have expressed to me this morning. First, however, I will come back to her on PSHE. It is incredibly important that young people are provided extremely good education in schools, not only so that they can make the most of all the great opportunities of 21st-century Britain, but so that they understand the considerable risks that come along with that, especially online. Given my ministerial portfolio, I look at things such as the sexualisation of children and what more we can do to enable young people to have appropriate, respectful sexual relationships, and I am fully aware of the need for comprehensive, age-appropriate education for young people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Newton]

I will answer the question. Cannabis is clearly a very harmful substance, and there is no evidence at all to support its decriminalisation. Moreover, we already have a very good regime that allows classified drugs to be used in scientific research and the development of medicinal substances—not only cannabis. I assure hon. Members that I have met with my colleagues over in the Department of Health, and that my officials have been in touch with officials there to re-examine the existing regime to ensure that it is not preventing scientific research, or stopping pharmaceutical companies from asking for licences to use cannabis.

We have talked about one particular medicine today, but a whole range of research is in fact funded by the Department of Health, such as research into the use of cannabis in the treatment of not only cancer but Parkinson’s disease. I have assured myself, through working with my colleagues, that the existing regime is fit for purpose and is producing beneficial effects. If at any stage scientists, researchers or medical researchers come to me with evidence that our regime is standing in the way of the positive use of listed substances that might have medicinal or positive effects, of course I will examine that evidence.

[Lyn Brown]

The Minister is being very generous in giving way and, I have to say, remarkably wonderful this morning, but may I press her on Sativex? She is right that our scientists have produced good, beneficial medicines from cannabis, THC and so on, but we need them to be available. It is no good them being available only to people in Wales, but not to people in England as well. I know that this is not part of her portfolio, but it would be great to have an ally pushing at the Department of Health and NICE to get those benefits available to all people in the United Kingdom.

[Sarah Newton]

I will also take the intervention of the hon. Member for Glasgow North East.