Prison: Support for Dependent Children

Debate between Lord Winston and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I take this opportunity to thank my noble friend for all his extraordinary work in this area, and for his generosity in acknowledging the work of my colleagues in the department. This is a great example of local innovation, and one that we will share with the National Centre for Family Hubs, which seeks to share examples of best practice. I will make sure that it is also taken back to our work with the Prison Service, and more broadly the Ministry of Justice.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure we all wish to congratulate the Minister on her sympathy for such children in this situation and the long-term effects that can occur. Does she not feel that what we voted for last night somehow has a kind of parallel in this House, when we see that children who have been affected terribly by various tragedies in their families may be separated from their parents? Do the Government not need to consider every care for those children, particularly when they may be effectively incarcerated in a kind of prison on a boat?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government have sought to explain just how seriously they take the safety and well-being of those children. Being complicit in some way with people traffickers is not the way we plan to do it.

Childcare

Debate between Lord Winston and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point, which really goes to the issue of the affordability of what in the jargon is known as “wraparound care”—outside conventional hours. One of the initiatives the Government have taken is to introduce what is known as tax-free childcare, which subsidises the cost of childcare for children between the ages of nought and 12. That programme historically had relatively low take-up, but I am pleased to be able to tell the House that the number of families using that tax-free childcare has more than doubled in the last four years.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister seems to have given an inadequate answer to my noble friend about Sure Start. The research shows very clearly that Sure Start changed and improved the quality of collaboration between children, their sociability and indeed their intellectual development when they started at primary school. Why have the Government left this in the way that they have?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sorry if the noble Lord thinks I gave an inadequate answer; that was certainly not my intention. What I was trying to say was that the Government absolutely recognise the importance of support for families, both in the first 1,000 days of a child’s life but also in the longer term—since, in my experience, families do not work in a straight line—as children grow up in the family hubs. All I was trying to say was that there is more than one way of achieving the same objective.

Music Education in State Schools

Debate between Lord Winston and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 2nd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We believe that the network of music hubs we have set up gives children choice, including specialist individual music tuition in an individual subject, and for other children perhaps group singing or other activities.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, unfortunately, the noble Lord, Lord Black, has had the same answers in the same kinds of debates for many years, since he has been asking this really important question. It is very clear that music education enhances memory, improves dexterity, includes collaboration and is a major part of learning. Indeed, it has been shown repeatedly that it improves and facilitates learning in other subjects. However, not even sufficient instruments are available in primary schools, despite what the noble Baroness asserts. There should be far more done to ensure music is an essential part of the curriculum. Does the noble Baroness agree?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely agree that it is an essential part of the curriculum: that is why it is compulsory in all maintained schools. I go back to the work of the music education hubs, which have had fantastic outreach into schools but have also linked schools and the children in those schools with music groups in their communities, so they can expand their interests.

Safety of Chemicals, Medicines and Vaccines

Debate between Lord Winston and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 18th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, the use of the word “chemicals” seems a little curious. Is it not a fact that every Member of the Front Bench opposite is basically just a bunch of chemicals—and they may be regarded as being safe or unsafe? It seems to me that this is not a very sensible way of looking at things that are used for medicinal purposes.

[Baroness Barran]

I obviously cannot comment on the safety or otherwise of my colleagues on the Front Bench. We are of course “a bunch of chemicals”, as the noble Lord so elegantly put it. The serious point is that we have to find a proportionate way of regulating substances in everyday life which, when used sensibly and in line with regulation, do not present a risk to the vast majority of people.

Cycling: Licences and Insurance

Debate between Lord Winston and Baroness Barran

Monday 18th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Winston]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of the case for requiring adults riding bicycles in city centres to have a licence and third-party insurance.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government considered this matter as part of the cycling and walking safety review in 2018. They have no plans to require cyclists to have a licence or third-party insurance. The costs and complexity of introducing such a system would significantly outweigh the benefits, particularly the requirement for a licence. However, the Government believe it is wise for all cyclists to take out some form of insurance, and many cyclists do so through their membership of cycling organisations.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. Of course, most cyclists are conscientious and law-abiding but an increasing number are extremely aggressive and ignore, for example, the fact that some streets are one way, pedestrian crossings and red lights at traffic lights, and from time to time they collide with pedestrians. In view of the fact that the Government obviously wish to encourage cycling—and I agree with that—does the noble Baroness not think that they should consider their obligation to improve public safety and therefore implement these or similar measures?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord makes a number of very fair points. The Government obviously want to reinforce safety for all road users, particularly those described as vulnerable road users, including pedestrians and cyclists. He will be aware that there was a review of cycling and walking safety, and licensing and insurance were considered as part of that. Over 3 million new cycles are sold each year. Licensing and insurance would require the establishment of a central register, and the Government’s view is that this would be very cumbersome and expensive to administer. There is evidence that other countries that have trialled these schemes have then withdrawn them. The Government have committed, through the cycling and walking investment strategy, to a 50-point plan and £2 billion of investment to improve safety for all road users.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Lord Winston and Baroness Barran

Thursday 20th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Winston]

I should be grateful if the noble Baroness would give way. I am not a lawyer, so I ask this in genuine innocence. I am not sure that the terms “inquisitorial” and “adversarial” are always in the best interests of justice in cases such as these. I am sure that it is possible to cross-examine somebody without necessarily being adversarial, trying instead to tease out what works and what seems to be the most likely truthful path. I do not suggest for a moment that one wants to humiliate somebody who claims to have been abused. I hope that we can try to seek the truth, using our intuitive judgment rather more successfully than we might by simply listening to an account which is not properly contested. That is a very real issue in cases such as these because many people feel that they have been very badly damaged, although the probability is that in many cases they have not been.

[Baroness Barran]

That makes two of us, as I am not a lawyer either. I hear the noble Lord’s concerns, but I think the approach of inquiries, as set down in the Inquiries Act 2005, has been reviewed and endorsed by your Lordships’ House. The Government do not see a need to make special provision for how inquiries into specific matters, such as child sexual abuse, are carried out.