Policing and Crime Bill

Lord Wilson of Tillyorn Excerpts

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard - part one): House of Lords
Wednesday 2nd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, there is a serious risk of agreement breaking out. I will make one point, if I may, as the only Scottish lawyer, I think, in the Committee. It is important to remember that the verdict of not proven occurs after trial and trial takes place only if there is a reasonable prospect of conviction and, of course, it is in the public interest. So the standard is slightly different but that does not in any way undermine my support for what the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, said. There is absolutely no doubt that inferences can be drawn from “insufficient evidence”. Indeed, the way in which the language is sometimes placed in a paragraph or a sentence goes a long way to suggesting that that may have been the conclusion of the prosecuting authorities but the police may feel rather differently. From that point of view, it seems to me that “lack of evidence” provides a pithy and succinct way of dealing with an issue that is all too common, particularly in relation to public figures.

[Lord Wilson of Tillyorn (CB)]

My Lords, I have not spoken before on this Bill but I will speak very briefly in support of the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford. There is no need to name names. All of us in your Lordships’ House know of people who have been mistreated over the past months in the way that their cases have been dealt with and summed up by the police. The reputations of some very distinguished people have been damaged as a result. If those people have been treated in that way, there must be many others who have been treated similarly.

I confess to some doubts about whether legislation is the right way to deal with this. It seems a very large sledgehammer for what should be a small nut but it has been a terribly resistant nut and perhaps we have to use legislation. One would have thought that something like Standing Orders would be sufficient. But if this amendment is put to your Lordships’ House, I would support it.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, I feel very privileged to add my humble voice to the very distinguished voices that have already spoken on this matter. Many, many years ago, in what was then the old Wales and Chester Circuit, a verdict was returned by a jury in south Wales: “just a little bit guilty”. That was in a trial so not dealing with exactly the same issue that is now before the Committee. We must be very careful not to have a wording that suggests that there may be just a little bit of evidence and no more. I am not exactly sure how that should be worded but I am sure that it is not beyond the wit of draftsmen to bring it about. Whether it should be by way of statute or some administrative provision, I leave to the good judgment of those concerned.

Civilian Use of Drones (EUC Report)

Lord Wilson of Tillyorn Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Tillyorn (CB)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure—and it has been very instructive—to have been a member of the European Union Committee, which approved this report, and of its Sub-Committee B, which, under the chairmanship of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, produced the draft of the report.

The noble Lord, Lord Brooke, referred to our chairman as having been slightly doubtful at the beginning. I confess that, at the beginning, I was a sceptic on this: I thought that the time had not yet come when we would be able to look at the question of drones in a sensible way. I was wrong. There is no doubt at all that the evidence produced for us showed that the time is right. Plenty needs to be done, and needs to be done urgently, and as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said, it needs to be done at a European level—indeed, at an international level, but at the very least at a European level.

It is clear enough, as all noble Lords have said so far, that we are at the beginning of a very significant development in the use of unmanned civil aircraft. I share the view of the noble Baroness that “remotely piloted aircraft systems”, or RPAS, is a hell of a mouthful and that “drones” is a much better way of referring to them. We are at the beginning of some enormously important developments with the use of drones. Some have compared it with the beginning of the internet but, as the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, said, it is part and parcel of the whole development that follows from the internet and all the technology that goes with it.

Despite all the newspaper stories about pizzas being delivered by drones or Amazon delivering all its books by drones, it is clear that what we are seeing is not some sort of version of Hogwarts’ owl mail service but something much, much bigger. It is clear that drones are going to be used for all sorts of very important things, such as inspecting power lines, surveying crop use and checking on high-rise buildings. My noble friend Lord Rees of Ludlow mentioned a number of other things and the list can go on and on—drones are going to be very important. In the evidence to the committee, we were told that the day may not be very far in the future when it will be possible to carry freight long distance in an unmanned aircraft remotely controlled, for instance, from London right up to the Shetland Islands.

The potential for jobs, too, is enormous. One figure quoted by the European Commission is an estimated 100,000 new jobs in the United States by 2025 and another 150,000 in the EU by 2050. If the first is true, the second is surely an underestimate at the very least, and all one can say is that this is inspired guesswork. However, the economic significance and the significance for jobs is huge.

Surely it is important, too, that this matter is dealt with at a European level. It is very EU-worthy. Drones are not going to be limited by borders and, if the European Union is to be right at the forefront of developing drone technology, it is terribly important that early on there should be European-level regulations for drones so that those who are engaged in their development and manufacture can know the direction in which they are going and there will not be a limitation on the speed of development in Europe.

I will not go into the details of the recommendations. Our chairman covered a number of them and they are in the report in detail. I should simply like to make two points. The first is that the European Commission deserves credit for the work that it has already done on this, putting forward proposals early in 2014, and also for responding very quickly to our report. That was very encouraging. Sitting on the EU Committee or one of its sub-committees, there are times when one gets almost overwhelmed by the amount of paper that pours out of Brussels. One also has a feeling that quite often there are proposals which should not really be dealt with at a European level; they should be dealt with at a national level. There were even occasions when the previous Commission—not this one—was pretty cavalier in how it treated comments from national parliaments, saying that they had gone in the wrong direction. In this case the European Commission responded very promptly and positively to the report that we put to it, and it has said that it is going to produce concrete proposals by the end of this year.

My second point is that HMG also deserve credit for responding quickly—a point that has been made. The report came out on, I think, 5 March and before the end of March the Government had responded. It may be that the advent of the Dissolution of Parliament concentrates the mind wonderfully but, whether or not that is true, it is wonderful to get that sort of quick, and indeed positive, response from the Government.

Lastly, the Sub-Committee B that drafted this report is no more under the rules governing the length of tenure of any committee. Only one member of that Sub-Committee B has survived in the present Sub-Committee B under the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and he had to excuse himself from taking part in this report because of a possible conflict of interest. Therefore, this report really was the swansong of the old Sub-Committee B and I submit that it was a pretty good swansong.

Visas: Student Visa Policy

Lord Wilson of Tillyorn Excerpts

Thursday 31st January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Tillyorn]

My Lords, like other Members of this House, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, for the opportunity to raise this important issue. I have an interest that has expired so recently that I should mention it: until the end of the previous month, I was Chancellor of the University of Aberdeen.

The general points have been made by all speakers that graduate students coming from overseas are extremely welcome, not just for the fees but because they enhance the whole student experience at the university to which they come. Secondly, assuming, as is the case for most, that they have been well treated, when they leave they are life-long friends and ambassadors for Britain, and points of contact.

Nor is there any doubt that we have severely damaged the reputation we have for welcoming overseas students. To pluck one statistic out of the air, the number of overseas students coming to Scotland from India in the past year has dropped by over a quarter. That is just one of the countries involved.

A number of practical things could perhaps be done. I will raise two and ask whether the Minister will look at them. First, there was until recently in Scotland a very good scheme called Fresh Talent, under which my students could stay on and have their visa extended for two years. I know from experience that some of the people who did this were very valuable to the economy in Scotland and very valuable when they went back to their home countries.

There was a similar scheme in England for a shorter period. That was cancelled a few years ago. Is the Minister prepared to have that looked at again? It was an extremely good scheme. It has been to some extent replaced by another scheme whereby MBA or PhD students can stay on provided that they have what is called “skilled work”. That is a very good idea. I suggest that the numbers are much too small; the total is 1,000 visa places.

There is another issue, which perhaps affects some parts of the country more than others. Skilled work means that one is getting a salary of at least £24,000 a year. That seems excessive, since, in the case of Scotland, the average graduate salary is £21,500 per year. I ask the Minister whether that could be looked at again to get a more realistic salary level.

Above all, as other noble Lords have said, we have created an atmosphere that suggests that students from overseas are unwelcome. Many noble Lords have suggested that figures for immigration should not include students. I totally agree. Above all, surely we must give the impression not that overseas students are unwelcome but that they are very much valued and very welcome in this country.