Higher and Further Education

Debate between Lord Willetts and Tristram Hunt

Tuesday 11th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

Why did the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills not stand up to the Home Office and the UK Border Agency, and not stand up for British universities and their reputation around the world, by not allowing this crazy decision to go ahead, which is doing untold damage to this world-class industry?

[Mr Willetts]

It was an operational decision by the UK Border Agency, for whom the matter is very clear. Highly trusted status, which is enjoyed by individual universities, is highly prized and brings heavy responsibilities. UKBA’s assessment, independently made, was that London Met was not meeting the responsibilities that it needed to in order to have highly trusted status. In those circumstances, it was unable to advise Ministers that the situation should be allowed to continue. That is the background to the decision, but we are focusing on ensuring the best possible support for legitimate overseas students as constructively as we can.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Willetts]

We inherited from the previous Government a simple line in the 2009 autumn statement announcing £600 million of cuts in higher education, science and research. Absolutely no work had been done about where the cuts should be and how they should be delivered, but they would have meant either falling student numbers or less support for science and research. We have been able to offer cash protection in a ring-fenced science budget, and as I showed the House earlier this evening, there has been an increase in the total funding available for teaching in our universities. To achieve that when we are facing the severe financial problems that we inherited from the previous Government is evidence of our commitment to opportunities for young people and to universities and research.

That is exactly what the outside experts say. For example, I remind the Opposition spokesman of the assessment by the Institute for Fiscal Studies. It stated in June:

“The HE funding regime to be introduced in England in September 2012 will be substantially more progressive than the current system. Roughly the poorest 30% of graduates, in terms of lifetime earnings, will be better off…than under the current system…Universities will also be better off, on average, and the taxpayer will save around £2,500 per graduate.”

Only yesterday I met the head of the education division of the OECD, who was here to launch “Education at a Glance”, its annual publication. He described our system of repaying loans as

“the most advanced system in the OECD”,

and added that

“probably no system does it better.”

That was what the impartial head of the OECD’s education division said yesterday.

[Tristram Hunt]

rose—

[Mr Willetts]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will agree that he should endorse the assessments of the IFS and OECD.

[Tristram Hunt]

While the Minister was having that conversation, did the OECD back the Government’s strategy of an 80% cut in the teaching budget at a time when every other major nation is investing in education and higher education and thinking about those industries as part of the future rather than cutting them? We are in the same bracket as Romania.

[Mr Willetts]

The OECD actually believes that our proposals are a way of continuing to ensure that a good number of people go to university even when we are having to save Exchequer funding. It believes that other countries can learn from our model.

I have set out our policies, and I should like to turn to the Labour party’s policies, about which the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood said surprisingly little in her lengthy speech. We know from the motion that Labour’s policy is £6,000 fees. There is a long and unhappy history to Labour’s higher education policy. I will not take her through the whole of it, although I am tempted. I will jump straight to where we are at present, as stated in the motion and in the longest single statement of Labour’s policy that we have found, the speech by the shadow Secretary of State on 2 December. His explanation of that policy took up a tiny fragment of the speech, a few lines. It was the type of fragment of text that academics in our universities love to pore over. He said:

“I’ll explain how this works: reducing the maximum level of fees to £6,000 while compensating universities for the difference costs £1.1 billion.”

That was his starting point. Well, the Department’s official costings show that his policy of bringing fees down to £6,000 would cost £2 billion. That £2 billion is currently going to our universities to pay for the education of students and for outreach, bursaries and access programmes that we thought Labour supported. He would take away that £2 billion of funding for higher education. He claims that he would miraculously be able to finance that, although admittedly he would only have £1.1 billion so he is £900 million short already.

Let us go through how the shadow Secretary of State claims he would plug that gap. He stated:

“£350 million will come from automatic savings from reducing the cap to £6,000 because it will mean some associated expenditure, such as on as fee waivers, will no longer be required”.

The trick is in the words “such as”, because it is not just fee waivers. Let us be clear about what that “associated expenditure” is. It is programmes to assist with student retention; outreach programmes whereby universities go to local schools and encourage students to apply to university; and bursary programmes financed out of the higher fees to offer our students increased financial support. I have a simple question for the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood. I have already permitted her to intervene twice, and I will do so again. Can she offer a guarantee that no student at university would be worse off as a result of the changes that she would make to save that £350 million?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Willetts and Tristram Hunt

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

16. What assessment he has made of the effect of higher tuition fees on the level of university admissions in the next academic year.

[The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David Willetts)]

UCAS published figures on 30 January 2012 covering applications to higher education institutions by its main deadline. That independent information shows that the proportion of English school leavers applying to university is the second-highest on record and is higher than in any year under the previous Labour Government. It is also encouraging that applications from people from some of the most disadvantaged backgrounds remain strong. We will continue to monitor closely the data on applications.

[Tristram Hunt]

I thank the Minister for his answer and draw attention to my interest in this matter, as set out in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Since this Government’s punitive and regressive £27,000 tuition fees have been introduced, university applications for design are down more than 16%, applications for history are down more than 7%, applications for classics are down more than 8% and applications for non-European languages are down more than 21%. Britain has long had a world-class reputation for the humanities; why are this Government so determined to kill it off?

[Mr Willetts]

I am amazed that the hon. Gentleman could refer to an arrangement under which graduates pay for their higher education only if they are earning more than £21,000 a year as a regressive policy. It is a progressive and fair way of maintaining higher education. Because, unlike him, young people across the country understand that, we have had a very healthy level of applications to universities this year—down only 1% on last year’s peak.

Off-quota University Places

Debate between Lord Willetts and Tristram Hunt

Tuesday 10th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Willetts]

The Secretary of State for Education, just like me, is trying to deliver improved education opportunities after inheriting a total mess in the public finances from Labour, so we have to take tough decisions. We are trying to save money, but at the same time we are delivering reform of schools, improved access to universities, a better way of funding them in future and the freedom for them to escape from student number controls, albeit under carefully controlled conditions and with clear principles. That is the way to improve education standards in our country, even when money is tight.

[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

Will the Minister tease out for us the conversations he has had with his adviser on fair access, the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes)? Has not this whole problem arisen because of the ideological experiment that the Minister is conducting with our universities? What is wrong with the state and the private sector working together, rather than this neo-liberal vision that he has for our universities, undermining their integrity and world-class reputation?

[Mr Willetts]

We absolutely do want the public and private sectors to work together. That is why we do not like the regime that we inherited from the previous Government, which had what are called “closed places”—that is, specially restricted places that are the only off-quota places that employers can sponsor. I very much value the advice of the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes)—who, if I might say so, made a powerful intervention in a previous debate in this House on higher education, only last week or the week before, about how our student finance reforms will work, which was exactly the right way forward for student finance in this country. [Interruption.]

Higher Education Policy

Debate between Lord Willetts and Tristram Hunt

Wednesday 27th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Willetts]

It was made perfectly clear—[Interruption.] Let me quote from the very first sentence of the terms of reference of Lord Browne’s report. It was to

“analyse the challenges and opportunities facing higher education and their implications for student financing and support. It will examine the balance of contributions to higher education funding by taxpayers, students, graduates and employers.”

So, the previous Government left us a deficit, recognised that they needed to make £14 billion of savings and set up an inquiry under Lord Browne to look at how universities should be financed in those circumstances—almost in the same month, incidentally, that we had the plan from the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) for large reductions in public spending.

After considering Lord Browne’s report, which took him a year to produce and in which time he took a large amount of evidence, the coalition has adopted a strategy that, although not in every respect his strategy—[Hon. Members: “Ah!”] I do not know why Opposition Members react with such glee; in many ways, we have improved on the strategy that Lord Browne put forward. The fundamental proposal in the report that the previous Government commissioned is the one that we are now implementing in order to put the finances of higher education on a stable footing.

[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Willetts]

Let me just develop this point, because crucially the best way to save money is not to go for reductions in the teaching grant per student, as that simply means a lower-quality experience for students in our universities; instead, the aim is to provide universities, as the teaching grant is reduced, with an alternative source of income from fees and loans which does not involve students paying any money up front.

[Mr Willetts]

I am just going to carry on explaining the basic finances of the measure, because they are so important and the Opposition clearly do not understand them. The point is about lending students money to pay fees. For example, if we lend them £1,000, we can reasonably expect, on the basis of outside forecasts, about £700 of that to be repaid, so we account for the £300 of the loan that is written off—that will not be repaid—but know that we will get approximately £700 back. That is the financing model in Lord Browne’s report, which the Labour party commissioned, and that is what enables this coalition to save money for the Exchequer, to continue with high levels of finances and to ensure that students do not have to pay any money up front. That is an excellent combination of policies at a time when money is tight.

[Tristram Hunt]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way as he digs himself ever deeper and reveals the fallacy of the sums involved. The whole point of the Browne review was that it would introduce a market in higher education, but, if we strip away the teaching grant and everyone charges £9,000, we do not have a market. That is why the policy is such a car crash.

[Mr Willetts]

I will move on to that stage of the argument in a moment, but let me just explain to the hon. Gentleman why this measure, which is not mine but that of the report commissioned by the Government whom he supported, is very straightforward, simple and absolutely the right way to tackle the challenge of financing higher education at a time of fiscal crisis. It enables us to save money for the Exchequer, because the money that goes into universities is lent to students and is not a grant, and at the same time we ensure that universities are well financed.

The shadow Secretary of State sounded as if he was willing to contemplate large reductions in the amount of resource going to universities, but that would affect the quality of students’ education. On our estimates, the cash going to universities rises from about £9.2 billion in 2010-11 to £10 billion in 2014-15, so we save money, there is more resource going into universities and, crucially, at the same time the money is accompanied by reform.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Willetts and Tristram Hunt

Thursday 17th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

Will the Minister explain how the Government can possibly hope to promote access by cutting the teaching budget for universities by 80%? As a result, universities will have to charge £7,500 simply to stand still. Rather than attacking the autonomy of universities with Whitehall over-interference, why do the Government not invest the requisite public resources in our great universities?

[Mr Willetts]

The hon. Gentleman cites a figure that even the NUS no longer accepts as viable. He seems to have failed to understand the fundamental feature of our reforms, which is that the money will continue to reach universities but via the choices of students. That is the right way in which to finance them.