Building Safety

Lord Watson of Wyre Forest Excerpts

Wednesday 27th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Swinburne (Con)]

Again, I will ensure that the department briefs us and we will be able to come back in writing on the situation in Barnet. I will check what the independent individual has told us with regard to that risk to life and whether that involves an assessment of the time of day. I am afraid I do not have that information, but I am sure somebody in the department does.

[Lord Watson of Wyre Forest (Lab)]

My Lords, I seek a little more clarity on timelines. Do the Government have a deadline by which remediation must be complete? If they do, what is it? If they do not, does the Minister think it is sensible to set one?

[Baroness Swinburne (Con)]

At this point, “as soon as possible” is the deadline and therefore no excuse is a good enough excuse for this not to be happening in any identified building right now, in order to ensure that people are safe. As to whether it needs to happen as this progresses, we have doubled the number of buildings that have been made safe in the last year. If that does not continue to progress and, indeed, potentially quicken, then, on that basis, I imagine that the department will start to investigate whether other measures are needed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Swinburne (Con)]

If there are instances where that is the case, then you can either work with our department, or directly through the Association of British Insurers to alert them to the fact that it is happening. There is an agreement with insurance companies that, if remediation work has been done, the insurance premiums should not be excessive.

With regards to other parts of the insurance market and those buildings which have not yet had full remediation work done, they are also expected to be working with residents to ensure that insurance is affordable. There is a fire-safety reinsurance facility led by the Association of British Insurers, which reinsurance brokers can utilise. There are a number of insurance-led schemes which are supposed to be helping. If noble Lords know of any instances where they are not, please let us know.

[Lord Watson of Wyre Forest (Lab)]

Can the Minister say if there is an intention in government to seek recompense for the taxpayer from the people who are responsible for this crisis?

[Baroness Swinburne (Con)]

We believe that those responsible for these buildings need to be the ones who ultimately pay for this, so the answer is yes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Swinburne (Con)]

In the first instance, I suggest that they go to their insurance company directly and notify it of the requirement that this should be fair and assessed based upon the existing current risk rather than prior risk. If that does not yield results and the ABI is unable to help, I am more than happy, as the Minister here, to have those sent to me.

[Lord Watson of Wyre Forest (Lab)]

Since there is time, and on this very important point, is the department monitoring the rise in insurance premiums in these properties to allow Ministers to make appropriate policy decisions, and should the ABI not honour its commitments?

[Baroness Swinburne (Con)]

I do not know the explicit answer to that. I will check, and anything comes to light that suggests that we are not, I will come back to the House, but I imagine that we are, and if not, I will revert.

International Holocaust Memorial Day

Lord Watson of Wyre Forest Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Watson of Wyre Forest (Lab)]

My Lords, some years ago I was privileged to meet Susan Pollack OBE. After the German invasion of Hungary in 1944, Susan was first sent to the Vac ghetto, from where she was sent to an internment camp, followed by Auschwitz-Birkenau, then a forced labour rearmament camp and finally, after the Allies advanced, she was taken on a death march to Bergen-Belsen. After liberation, she had typhoid, TB and severe malnutrition.

When I met her, she had a twinkle in her eye, but in a very polite and courteous way she asked me why my party allowed people who hate Jews to join it. Your Lordships will not be surprised to know that Susan made a profound impact on me. I wrestled with the question of how liberal-minded people can be anti-Semitic. How can campaigners for a more equal society and a peaceful world be anti-Semites? I came to understand that at the heart of this question, to some people on the liberal left, the problem was psychological. Not wanting to be seen or thought of as anti-Semitic or to feel anti-Semitic, the campaigner becomes anti-Semitic to the degree that they could not forgive their fellow members for troubling their conscience and making them consider whether they were indeed anti-Semitic.

The author and public intellectual, Howard Jacobson, extrapolates this argument and applies it to anti-Zionists, saying that many liberal thinkers operate on a false syllogism:

“Not all critics of Israel are anti-Semites. I am a critic of Israel. Therefore I am not an anti-Semite.”


I saw too often that when certain members were challenged on anti-Semitic behaviour, rather than trying to understand the feelings of the members expressing hurt, their reaction was a kind of insolent denial, a closing down of the mind to the possibility that the offence being felt was legitimately held. Yet in all other areas of their life, the member would try to understand the lived experience of a complainant. Even when my Jewish parliamentary colleagues began to collectively organise, to express revulsion at events, they were very often treated with suspicion or criticised for in some way undermining the interests of their party, or, worse, their country, some even being accused of dual loyalties.

The worst calumny against the Jews is to say that, despite the Holocaust, Jews have not emerged from it as better people. The people who express this view often hold up their so-called proof of this failure as whatever the policy of the current democratically elected Government of Israel is. Therefore, it is a great relief to me that my party is now led by Sir Keir Starmer, who understands these things and continues to take a strong stance against anti-Semitism.

As we mark Holocaust Memorial Day, it is important that people, particularly those in my own party, do not pay tribute to those murdered without paying equal respect to the living. In the years since my conversation with Susan, I have thought of her often, and I have realised that her testimony was a gift. May she continue to be blessed with long life.