Syria: UK Military Action
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(8 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, this has been a very powerful, moderate and constructive debate. We are all attempting to judge a very difficult situation, and the balance in all our parties is one that we come to with great difficulty. I stress all our parties because we know that when it comes to it this evening, all parties will divide to some extent, except for the rather Stalinist SNP. Certainly in my party over the last few days we have had some extensive and intensive conversations about the costs and benefits, the judgments that one has to make and the deep uncertainties as to where we might end up if we take either course this evening.
I was very glad to see the Prime Minister in the speech he made earlier today in the other place moderate his language of last night and say:
“There is honour in voting for; there is honour in voting against”.
I say that to my own party, as well as to others.
The Liberal Democrats are an internationalist party, not an isolationist one. We believe very strongly in working with our neighbours in facing common threats. We believe in an open society and a well-integrated international society. We take full account of France’s appeal for support and of the Dutch, Danish and now German commitment to the long-term struggle against Daesh. We welcome the UN resolution authorising “all necessary measures” to contain this common threat. We are instinctively reluctant to use force, but sadly recognise that we have to play our part in what will be a long-term conflict, which cannot be won by military means alone.
However, we offer only conditional support for the Conservative Government in the policy that they have set out so far. We warn the Prime Minister to carry the country with him, not to give way, as he did last night, to inflammatory language or to play partisan politics over fundamental issues of national security. Supporters of all parties and none are hesitant about further bombing in the Middle East. They need to be persuaded that the Government will at last prioritise diplomatic efforts to end the civil war in Syria and to promote reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Iran, as well as pushing Daesh out of the territory that it controls.
Many British Muslims are desperately unhappy about the dangers of civilian casualties. They need reassurance that Muslim states are working with us to contain the terrorist threat and to rebuild stable government across Syria and Iraq. This is a global conflict in which Daesh attracts its fighters from across the world, including from within the UK. The noble Duke, the Duke of Somerset, made a powerful point that how we treat our marginalised communities—the second-generation and third-generation children of immigrants uncertain of their acceptance within western society—matters in preventing the recruitment of new fighters to Daesh, al-Qaeda, Jabhat al-Nusra and the rest. Our Government need to take that argument on board as they cut local government spending across the Midlands or the north of England and cut spending for schools and further education. I spend my weekends on the outskirts of Bradford. The cuts in our local authority’s budget will weaken local efforts to integrate our substantial Muslim minority, to offer young Muslims training, jobs, self-respect and a sense of British citizenship within our national community.
Last week, we set out five conditions before we were willing to support the Government’s proposal to extend our military commitment over Syria. We are grateful that the Government have engaged with these conditions, including the need to look into external funding for radical perversions of Islam within the UK. The UN resolution satisfies our concerns about the legality of further military action, but the Vienna talks are only just beginning and the broad coalition that the Prime Minister talks about remains, at best, fragile. We want to witness, and to be regularly briefed about, the active British diplomatic engagement in strengthening this coalition, working closely with our European partners. We also want to hear from a Conservative Party that has been far too uncritical in its relations with the Sunni Gulf monarchies that the Government are working with the Arab League and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation—which at present are almost uninvolved in the situation—pressing the Sunni states of the region to play active and constructive roles.
Many noble Lords raised the question of forces on the ground and demanded that we and other western states be willing to commit ground troops to defeat Daesh and stabilise the region. I suggest that they have forgotten the lessons of Afghanistan and Iraq: that the commitment of western troops, which do not understand local languages or local cultures, risks strengthening our enemies, not creating stability. The Prime Minister was right to quote in the other place today what the Iraqi Government have clearly told him—that,
“the presence of western ground troops can be a radicalising force and can be counterproductive”.
So we have to look to the states in the region to step up to their responsibilities and contribute to stabilising these ungoverned areas. Several noble Lords have rightly criticised the Saudis and the Gulf states for standing by as Daesh perverts the message of Sunni Islam, disastrously embarking instead on a military campaign in Yemen, imposing the model of the Sunni/Shia conflict on a far more messy local civil war.
The traditional leaders of Sunni Islam came from Al-Azhar in Cairo and from Mecca. The legitimacy of the Saudi royal family rests upon this claim. So we are entitled to ask the Saudis to accept their political responsibilities and to stop promoting Wahhabi Salafism against other interpretations of Sunnism across the Muslim world, which now stretches into communities within Britain. The Saudi ambassador’s article in the Times today was an inadequate answer to this demand.
In the middle of the Napoleonic Wars, when many British nationalists saw Roman Catholicism as the enemy as much as French imperialism, the Whig Government responded to the Irish rebellion of 1798-99 by setting up a Catholic seminary within the UK. In spite of persistent Tory attacks over the following years, Maynooth successfully trained generations of Catholic priests who were willing to seek a reconciliation between Catholicism and English values, until the collapse of home rule and the approach of the First World War. Our Conservative Government would now be wise to invest, through our universities, in strengthening the centres of Islamic studies, which have now been established, to train future generations of British imams here.
Daesh promotes the narrative that it is defending Islam against the West. We have to work with Muslim states to promote an alternative narrative of reconciliation and moderation, as the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, in particular, said. That will need to include working with Iran, pushing back intolerance between Sunni and Shia and between Islam and other faiths. I am an Anglican and I welcome what the Anglican Church is doing in this regard. Over the last 12 months I have attended services in Westminster Abbey that have been Christian and Jewish—I recall that the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, was present—and Christian and Muslim. That is absolutely the way that we have to go, and I know that the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury also feels that strongly. I look forward to further work in that direction to promote better understanding between the people of the Book and their three faiths.
Extending Britain’s military operations over Syria is not in itself a game-changer, and we should not pretend that it is. This is in some ways a symbolic issue. Deepening our diplomatic engagement in order both to push back Daesh and to resolve the Syrian civil war is as least as essential. So long as the war in Syria continues, more refugees will struggle to reach safety in Europe. Tim Farron, my party leader, has asked the Government to take in some thousands of the unaccompanied children who have reached Italy in order to offer them security and hope, and to show that we are sharing the responsibility at our end.
Bombing is not enough, as my noble friend Lord Ashdown and many others have said. We look to the Government to develop a far broader strategy together with our allies and partners and to work for reconciliation across the Middle East, for the reconstruction of Syria and Iraq, and for humanitarian assistance for those suffering from the interconnected conflicts across the region.
Syria: Refugees and Counterterrorism
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(8 years, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Stowell of Beeston
If your Lordships prefer, I will say “Government”. This democratically elected Government have decided that this country will support those in need through the approach that I have outlined. Indeed, that has been our policy for a considerable time. We have given refuge to 5,000 people from Syria since the crisis started. Alongside the refuge that we are offering, we have made a huge contribution to support those people affected by this crisis in the region. That is not something that can be said about all the other member states in the European Union. We think that our approach is the right one for the refugees, and the right one in the long-term interests of achieving stability in that area and supporting people in need.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, I regret deeply the absence of any reference in the Statement by the Government to co-operation with other countries. At least in July before we rose, the Prime Minister’s Statement referred to the need for Britain to operate within a broad international coalition. Does not the noble Baroness accept that this is a common problem that we share above all with our neighbours on the European continent and that there has to be common action, particularly European action? Does she not accept, for example, that what is happening in Calais, which directly affects us, is part of this same movement of peoples across Europe; that we depend on co-operation with the French and others in this respect; and that co-operation, not unilateral action by Britain alone, is where we have to take things forward from here?
Baroness Stowell of Beeston
The noble Lord makes a good point about Calais. Clearly, we have co-operated with the French over the summer to address the situation that worsened earlier in the summer. The Home Secretary was one of the Home Affairs and Justice Ministers who called for the meeting that will take place next week because we think it right that Europe should co-operate more. However, those within the Schengen agreement are not operating in a co-ordinated, coherent way. We want to support them but we are very clear that we do not believe it is in the best interests of this country or those who are most in need to join the action that has been taken by other member states. We are co-operating all the time with our partners in Europe by helping them strengthen their operations on the borders and trying to provide them with the expertise they need. However, in the end they have decided that they want to pursue the course they are following. We believe that by pursuing that course they are increasing the flow of refugees from Syria and that is putting people’s lives at risk unnecessarily. We think that a much better approach is the one we are pursuing, which is to provide refuge but to do so for people from the camps directly.
Gaza Strip: Rafah Crossing
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(8 years, 10 months ago)
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The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord makes a good point about approaches to the problems in this area. We are concerned by the restrictions at the Rafah crossing and are urging the Egyptians to show maximum flexibility in reopening it. We are also calling on Israel to fulfil its obligation by lifting its restrictions in order to ease the suffering of ordinary Palestinians and to allow the Gaza economy to grow.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, we have already seen Fatah lose control of Gaza to Hamas, and we now see signs that Hamas is threatened by more radical groups within Gaza which might, indeed, include supporters of IS. Given the cycle of violence between Israel and Gaza—and it is a cycle of violence, with both sides playing roles in it—do we not need something more urgent and imaginative to avoid what would be a disaster for the already poor relations between Israel and both entities of Palestine?
The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord makes a good point. The humanitarian situation in Gaza is deeply concerning, so we are urging key donors to disburse the Cairo pledges. We are encouraging the Palestinian Authority, as the noble Lord said, to engage more in Gaza and to move forwards on reconciliation. We are also continuing to press Israel to do more on exports, power, movements and access. As I said earlier, we are also urging Egypt to show more flexibility at the Rafah crossing.
G7
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(8 years, 11 months ago)
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Baroness Stowell of Beeston
I do not think that my noble friend is suggesting that we are at the point where we might extend the G7 to include China. But he is right about China being so important to the future prosperity and security of the world at large. Again, this is an area where we have been very much in the forefront in recognising the growing importance of China. Before the general election, the UK was the first G7 country to join the AIIB, which is the new Chinese version of the World Bank. Because of our leadership there, other G7 countries have joined that bank.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, I am sure the noble Baroness will be pleased to be reminded that the current EU Trade Commissioner is a woman, Cecilia Malmström, so she should therefore have said “her predecessor” when referring to the EU Trade Commissioner.
On TTIP, the transatlantic trade association, I hope the Government are well aware that there is an active campaign on social media and in the NGO community against this whole transatlantic free trade agreement as a capitalist ramp that will give multinational companies access to our markets at all sorts of cost. That is as irrational as much of the campaign for Britain to leave the European Union. Are the Government planning any major information campaign to combat that underlying distrust of the entire transatlantic trade agreement?
On the EU, are the Government also proposing to use the balance of competences exercise of the last coalition Government to inform the public, given that I read in the newspapers every day of major claims being made by members of the Conservative Party for the repatriation of substantial powers from the European Community, for which the balance of competences exercise produced no evidence?
Lastly, we all welcome the Government’s views on corruption, and we all see again from the FIFA example that the overseas territories and Crown dependencies under British sovereignty form part of a network of transnational corruption. Are the Government planning to take powers to tighten controls over overseas financial centres under British sovereignty?
Baroness Stowell of Beeston
My Lords, there is quite a lot there, but first I must thank the noble Lord for correcting me on the current EU Trade Commissioner. He follows these issues far more closely than I do myself and, unfortunately, I had not spotted from the name in my brief that I had got the gender incorrect, so I am pleased to be told that the Trade Commissioner is a woman.
On TTIP, the noble Lord is absolutely right to say that there are a huge number of benefits in the agreement for small businesses because it will help them to export, as well as for consumers generally in terms of cheaper goods and increased trade. I will reflect on his comment about the promotion of the benefits of TTIP, but that leads me back to the point I made earlier, which is that because there is so much to be gained from this trade deal, I think there are some misplaced concerns about issues which are not relevant. They are not ones that we need to be concerned about because we have got the necessary assurances. I know that the noble Lord was very much involved in the balance of competences exercise. I will look at it again.
On corruption and the overseas territories, although I may not be able to find the specifics, I can make the general point that one of the things that we as a Government have done in terms of increasing transparency is to ensure that the Crown dependencies are part of the first wave of the new arrangements for ensuring that transactions are properly recorded as part of one of our new measures to increase transparency, so they are very much part of the effort to make progress in this area.
Implications of Devolution for England
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(9 years, 5 months ago)
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Baroness Stowell of Beeston
I am a little bit baffled. A lot is happening in terms of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and the Opposition are not arguing that those changes should be delayed for a constitutional convention. Arising from the result of the Scottish referendum is the need for us to address an important issue, which is about English votes for English laws. That can be addressed quickly and there are some options for consideration. It comes off the back of several reports on the issue of English votes for English laws over many years. This is not about ruling out a constitutional convention or any other bigger issues that might arise in due course; but the issue of English votes for English laws needs to be addressed right now. It can be addressed and it should not be delayed.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, we now have 20 minutes of questions. I remind noble Lords that we should have brief interventions and questions to enable the largest number of people to contribute.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, it might be appropriate to hear from a Welsh Peer and then we will come back to England.
Lord Elis-Thomas
My Lords, I am very happy for you to return to England as soon as possible. I have one simple question for the Government. It seems from some references in the Leader of the House’s Statement in the other place that he is inventing a new polity—a place called England and Wales. What is the constitutional basis of this place, if it ever existed in history, which I doubt, being a sort of cultural historian? Since devolution, it is very clear that every piece of legislation which appears before this House, or indeed within the devolved Parliaments, is defined according to its competence and its territorial application. Therefore, there is no place called England and Wales. Legislation is either for the United Kingdom, for England, for Northern Ireland or for Scotland. The Government must be clear about that. I do not wish to go back to the Tudor period.
EU Council
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(9 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Stowell of Beeston
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, for her comments in response to mine on Afghanistan and Ukraine.
In starting my response to the points that she has made, it is important for me to make it clear that the Prime Minister played a leading role in Brussels last week on climate change and Ebola, two very important matters on the agenda at the Council meeting. He achieved very good results that were good for Europe and for the United Kingdom; they felt right and they felt fair. This is in stark contrast to the way in which the previous Government approached some of the negotiations on matters such as climate change in the past. The same cannot be said, though, in terms of it being right or fair, when we consider what happened on the EU budget surcharge.
Taking the questions that the noble Baroness put to me, and starting with climate change, the target of at least a 40% reduction in carbon emissions has been described as ambitious, but it is a very sensible one. The way that we are approaching this, in not having the subtargets as binding agreements on member states, is very important. However, we are now in the best possible position to push our international partners, such as America and China, to bring forward ambitious climate pledges to reach a global deal next year.
On Ebola, the noble Baroness was right to say that the Prime Minister succeeded in ensuring that we attracted a financial commitment from member states, so Europe as a whole now will be contributing €1 billion to fighting Ebola. However, it is not just about the money; we also got a commitment that other European member states will help with their healthcare workers and ensure that they travel to affected countries. This is something that we need to continue to apply pressure on and ensure that we all do our fair share in ensuring that Ebola is properly tackled out there in west Africa.
As far as the budget is concerned and the points that she made about the surcharge, I do not think that it is right to focus on who knew what and when. What people really care about is how much is being demanded and the fact that this amount is unprecedented in the level that is being sought by the EU. It is true to say that there is a process every year that is standard in calculating these contributions, but it has never led to the kind of demand that we have seen on this occasion. Importantly, with regard to the level that the UK is being asked to contribute, no member state will know what amount it is being required to contribute in terms of its net contribution until it is clear what amount the EU is going to return, having identified what the countries’ gross contributions are. It is the net contribution that is key in this context, and it is that net contribution that the Prime Minister has made clear is absolutely unacceptable. He has made it clear that the way in which the European Commission has behaved in going about this process is not right, and that is something that we will ensure is properly addressed in the way in which the Prime Minister has described today.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, we now have 20 minutes for questions on the Statement. I remind noble Lords that it is not a short debate. Noble Lords are asked to keep their questions short so as to enable others to follow.
House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(10 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, the Leader has just reminded me that a couple of raisins and a nut should be available in the Bishops’ Bar. I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
Electoral Registration Data Schemes (No. 2) Order 2012
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(11 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire
That the draft orders and regulations be referred to a Grand Committee.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
My Lords, I rise on an allied matter to the Electoral Registration Data Schemes (No. 2) Order 2012. Perhaps I may ask the Minister to update the House on when it will be able to consider the second day in Committee of the Electoral Registration and Administration Bill.
EU Council
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(12 years, 3 months ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Shall we hear from the Cross Benches and then Labour? We have not yet heard from the Liberal Democrats. We may go around the Benches and there is plenty of time.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick
I join the noble Lord, Lord Brittan, in saying that the Prime Minister was extremely well advised not to contest the use of the institutions in the context of this intergovernmental agreement. I would only add, gently, that you cannot reserve your position on a decision that you are not a party to.
Can the Minister now answer a question that I have been asking with a certain persistence without getting any answers: what provisions in the intergovernmental agreement are objectionable to the British Government? He has just spoken warmly about Article 2, and I imagine that he could speak quite warmly about most of the other articles, so why are we not joining the agreement? It is a little difficult to understand. Perhaps the Prime Minister let the cat out of the bag when, with a look of some relief on his face—at least it looked like that on my television set—he said, “Nothing to sign. Nothing to ratify”—and, he might have added, “Nothing to make me run the gauntlet of my Back-Benchers”.
European Council
Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Perhaps we might hear from the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, and then move to UKIP.
Lord Lamont of Lerwick
My Lords, will the Leader of the House possibly correct the attempts of the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, to rewrite history? Will he perhaps remind her that the decisions on which countries joined the euro, and at which parities, were made well before the 1997 election? At that time, the decision by the Conservative Government not to join the euro was severely criticised by both John Smith and Gordon Brown.
Lord Lea of Crondall
The Prime Minister stated only a couple weeks ago, much to the annoyance of President Sarkozy, about the crisis that they—presumably, the eurozone—ought to sort it out. In a sense, I am responding to the question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit. Does the noble Lord the Leader of the House think that that is what the Prime Minister meant?
