Defending Democracy Taskforce

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 12th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Mr Gill is in prison now because the counterterrorism police of the security services in the United Kingdom brought evidence together, sufficient for prosecution, which proved he was acting as a traitor to this country by promoting information on behalf of a foreign nation and that he had taken money to do that. That is not acceptable and should send a warning to all who would potentially undertake that type of activity in the future. We keep under constant review potential threats and misinformation. We will continue to take action through the Online Safety Act and the review that my honourable friend the Security Minister is currently undertaking. Foreign interference in our democratic process is not acceptable and Mr Gill’s jail sentence is evidence that we will take action.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I understand why some of the investigations that the Defending Democracy Taskforce is undertaking have to be kept highly confidential, but if we are going to defend democracy effectively, the public and parliamentarians need to be well informed as to the nature of the threats. I understand that Sir Philip Rycroft’s review of foreign financial influence and interference in UK elections, due in March, is to be presented to the Security Minister. Before this House has the elections Bill, which we expect in the next few months, it would be helpful for us to be informed as fully as possible of what that report says. If much of it is not allowed to be published for the public, can parliamentarians at least have as full a briefing as possible?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

It is important that any information that comes from Sir Philip Rycroft’s review or from the separate review from the Security Minister is analysed. There will always obviously be restrictions on the information we can put into the public domain, but I will take away what the noble Lord has requested and find a mechanism to ensure that, for the information we can put into the public domain, that is done.

Muslim Brotherhood

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 5th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

There is a range of offences on the statute book on which the security services and/or the police can take action in the event of potential terrorist or criminal activity. The purpose of proscription is to say that an individual cannot support an organisation, and that gives additional power to the state to protect citizens who are subject to potential terrorist or criminal activity. Proscription is defined very clearly by the Terrorism Act 2000, and therefore there are strict criteria where proscription can take place. But that proscription is done for a purpose: to secure an end to what could be perceived to be legitimate support for organisations that foster terrorism.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I simply ask the Minister whether he feels that, under the current circumstances, we should be a little more cautious than usual about following the advice of President Trump on the designation of foreign groups as being either terrorists or in other ways outside the realm of law.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

President Trump is responsible for the policy of the United States. The noble Lord will know that, before Christmas, the United States produced a document on its approach to foreign policy. We are an independent nation and we will look at any issues with the interests of the United Kingdom. In this case, going back to the original Question from the noble Lord, Lord Godson, the evidence President Trump has called for in relation to the Muslim Brotherhood has not yet been completed, so it would be very foolish of us to make a decision on that issue, which we keep under review at all times, without even seeing what the Americans have said. We will examine the issue, and we will always be an independent nation responsible for our own foreign policy.

Police: Records

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a very important point. There is the idea of 43 police forces, going back to the noble Viscount’s initial point, but we should be trying to encourage co-operation on procurement, on personnel services and on a whole range of other issues where we can save resource and put it into front-line policing. Without trailing too much, the White Paper will examine how we improve that collaboration. When it is published, I hope the noble Lord will welcome it, contribute to it and, if need be, challenge it.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, peacekeeping needs to be local as well as national. If one centralises too much the way the police is organised, we will lose touch with people in communities. I also recall that the four Yorkshire forces have a number of collaborative operations about organised crime, terrorism and, as I remember, helicopters and animals. These are obvious things to collaborate on, but one should retain a sufficient link with local communities in order to make sure that policing makes sense to the people it serves.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Absolutely. The whole principle of policing is that it represents and is accountable to the local community. If I may say so to the noble Lord, it is still absolutely vital that we get best value out of the police resources that are put in. It is a valuable course of action to follow to find mechanisms to ensure that police forces can co-operate, where they want to, on getting a better deal for the taxpayer on some major procurement or on efficiencies generally. When the police White Paper is published relatively shortly, it will offer a number of pointers for where that co-operation can potentially be encouraged.

Overseas Companies: UK-registered Subsidiaries

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 17th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for the question. The UK’s international obligations require us to treat suppliers from other countries on an equal footing with UK suppliers in procurements which are covered by trade agreements with those countries and under WTO arrangements. The requirement for fair and open competition is a two-way street, as it gives UK suppliers access to public procurement opportunities overseas, which is worth close to £1.3 trillion. If the noble Lord has a particular case in mind, perhaps he could speak to me, and I will refer it to officials in the department.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, noble Lords will recall that, when the Covid pandemic broke out, the contract for setting up local testing services was given to two multinational companies, one of which had its headquarters in Miami. Not surprisingly, it put an awful lot of the local testing sites in the wrong places because it had no local knowledge. In awarding public contracts, can the Government be sure that they take issues like that into account? Can they ensure that companies which have most of their work overseas have a proper presence and pay the appropriate level of tax in this country?

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. If we have a free trade agreement with a particular country then we have to follow international obligations by allowing foreign companies which have got an office registered in the UK access to public procurement. Obviously, following Covid, the Government are committed to using every means possible to recoup public money lost in pandemic-related fraud and contracts that have not been delivered. The Government are determined to ensure that we go after any contracts that have been committed to under some kind of fraud case. The Government have appointed Tom Hayhoe to be the Covid Counter-Fraud Commissioner, and he will use every lever to go after any such fraudulent contracts.

Defending Democracy Taskforce

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 6th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The Government keep under review at all times the influence and threats from foreign powers. I will reflect on the particular point the noble Lord mentioned, but we are very clear that foreign influence on UK government policy, or the undermining of elections, is not acceptable.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, the Defending Democracy Taskforce has a relatively narrow focus on hostile states and covert action. What we have seen recently have been private actions, very often made openly, from within states we regarded as friendly, including misinformation, the weaponisation of social media and flows of funds, actual and promised, which are clearly foreign interference in British politics. Does that come within the Defending Democracy Taskforce remit, and, if not, which elements of our Government will respond to these threats?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The task force is looking at a whole range of issues, not just foreign interference and interference in elections; it is also looking at intimidation and actions at general elections and other elections. The National Security Act 2023, which had cross-party support in this House, provides the security services and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to deter and detect the type of influences the noble Lord mentioned. The task force will look at that and, as with the counterterrorism and security review, bring forward proposals in due course to this House and to the House of Commons.

Asylum Seekers: Deportation from France

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 4th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

As I said earlier, I am not going to speculate as to what will be in future legislation. That will be presented to Parliament in the fullness of time.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, that we on this side are the establishment while the anti-establishment are the poor people who are stuck in government with only the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, GB News and a few others to help them, battling against a profoundly demoralising liberal consensus that somehow they do not seem able to break?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I rather agree with Michel Barnier, with whom I imagine the noble Lord sympathises quite a lot, who said:

“You can find nothing in the French constitution about migration, and there is almost nothing in the European treaties. For 30 or 40 years, there’s a kind of interpretation that is always in favour of the migrants … We have to rewrite something in the … treaties or in”


the European Convention on Human Rights. Is he wrong?

Certificate of Sponsorship: Foreign Health and Care Workers

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 13th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

There is no workforce plan in process. As I say, the communication between the Home Office and the Department of Health and Social Care and other relevant government departments is a close one. The function that the Home Office can perform is to set the minimum floor for the sum that these workers must be paid, which, as I said earlier, is £20,960, reflecting an hourly salary of more than the living wage. That is an important mechanism to achieve the objective that the noble Lord outlined.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I read in the financial pages of the profits that chains of privately owned care homes are making. I also note that some of them have their headquarters outside the United Kingdom for tax and other purposes. Is it a failure of regulation that these companies are extremely profitable with a substantial chunk of those profits coming from subsidies from the state or local government? Do the Government think they should tighten regulations to make sure that conditions for such workers are adequate?

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

It is not for the Home Office to regulate the profits made by private companies, and the noble Lord would not expect me to comment on that. I reassure him that the Department of Health and Social Care is sighted on what the appropriate standards should be for those working in the sector, and it works with the Home Office on the grant of sponsor licences for those coming to work in the sector.

Policing of Marches and Demonstrations

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 13th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, we are told that two of those arrested in Paris for painting anti-Semitic slogans on French synagogues have said to the police that they were acting under orders from Russian sources. Are the Government looking to see whether there is any element of foreign interference in some of these protests? It is in the Russian interest to stir up disorder in this country, and this is a very easy way to do it.

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I have absolutely no idea.

Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Wednesday 18th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I will talk a little about the role of the House as a revising Chamber and the legislative process. I am not an expert on the legalities of combating fraud, although I am well aware of the international dimensions of economic crime as someone who worked in the international sphere.

We have had a thorough committee process which was largely non-partisan; indeed, the way this House has treated the Bill has been almost entirely so. I have learned a great deal from a number of former Conservative Ministers and Cross-Benchers on the Bill, and I am interested to hear that two other former Conservative Ministers in the House of Commons supported the approach of these two Motions.

We are a revising Chamber, and the parliamentary process should be one in which reasoned amendments are taken into account by the Government and, where the Government are not entirely sure of their ground, compromises are made. The role of a Lords Minister is partly to act as a mediator between the reasoned arguments in this Chamber and the insistence of Cabinet Ministers that whatever they had thought of in the first place should absolutely go through unchanged. I have a strong memory of talking to Cabinet Ministers when I was a Lords Minister about why perhaps they might not wish to insist on their full original, because the reasoned arguments made in the Lords were sufficiently persuasive. That is the process that should be taken on. This is not an attempt to delay the Bill further: we are all committed to it going through. We are also committed to future-proofing it, so that it does not have to be amended, and to producing a Bill that commands as wide a consensus of support as possible.

I remind the Minister that we have not followed that for some Bills we have seen in recent Sessions. I am sure that he is well aware of the issue of party finance, which came up in the Elections Act and the National Security Act. He was sufficiently firm in resisting some of our arguments as to accuse me at one point of spreading rumours about a non-problem. I have now learned that the Leader of the Commons, Penny Mordaunt, has just written to the Security Minister to ask for the assistance of the intelligence agencies in investigating the origins of donations to political parties from foreign sources, so clearly there is now recognition within government that there is a real problem. There are other aspects of that Elections Act, particularly the insistence on a strategy statement from the Secretary of State, which the Government also appear to have had second thoughts on. Sadly, whoever become the next Government will have to introduce another elections Bill to put right some of the things that this House wished to amend but that the Government resisted.

Here we are with a Bill that has been improved and carefully scrutinised, and on which I, certainly, am persuaded by having listened at length and in succession to the arguments made by former Conservative Ministers wanting simply to improve the Bill to improve the fight against international fraud and economic crime.

Having been persuaded by that, I and the team on these Benches will recommend that Members of the Liberal Democrat group in the House support both the noble and learned Lord and the noble Lord in pressing their amendments, if they wish to do so, because we believe in a legislative process in which this House has a role to play, in carefully scrutinising and improving Bills, and making sure that when a Bill becomes an Act, it lasts for some time, because it commands a widespread consensus.

[Lord Eatwell (Lab)]

My Lords, I listened carefully to the case that the Minister advanced against these amendments. The core of that case seemed to be that the cost of a company actually responding to this legislation would make the company less efficient, and that it should be concentrating, as he said, on increasing its production and activities, and not be bothered with issues such as fraud, perhaps. What was peculiar about the Minister’s argument was that it was an argument which could be placed against any regulation whatever. It could be placed against the need, as has been commented already, to have seatbelts in cars. That increased the costs of production of the vehicle and, indeed, the cost of the vehicle. It could be argued that most financial regulation, which seeks to increase the stability and respectability of the financial system in this country, increases costs. Yes, it does, but the benefit far exceeds the cost.

If the Minister feels that the amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, increases costs and damages production, why is he accepting it at all, even for larger companies? It seems to me that this is an empty argument. The Minister has not produced any data or argument for the cost-benefit trade-off on which he has rested his entire case. In fact, I think he has no case at all.

Family Migration (Justice and Home Affairs Committee Report)

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I want to focus on a particular aspect of family migration: the recruitment of researchers and technicians from overseas, under the global talent and skilled worker visa programmes. I emphasise “recruitment”. Unlike the determination to block immigrants as such, at least part of our current Government positively want to attract large numbers of such talented scientists, technicians and engineers.

The noble Viscount, Lord Camrose, told the House last week, in reiterating the Government’s optimistic claim that they will make the UK a science superpower by 2030—that is to say, in seven years’ time—that

“bringing in overseas talent via the visa system”

is vital to that aim. He added that the number of researchers in key science subjects

“will have to increase by around 380,000, and overseas talent will be a very big piece of that”.—[Official Report, 13/9/23; col. 1008.]

That is what DSIT thinks, as perhaps do the Department for Business and Trade and DfE. The Home Office is pushing hard in the opposite direction.

The visa system is designed to keep families out. It will discourage any applicant with a family from coming. Visa charges have been raised several times in the past 10 years. In addition, an immigration health surcharge was introduced in 2015, initially at a modest £200 a year. This autumn, the health charge will rise from £634 to £1,065 a year, with a discounted rate for children of £776 a year. That is an increase of roughly 400% since 2015. It is payable for an incoming scientist’s partner and children and payable up front, on arrival. Alongside this, the visa charge will be raised by a further 20%, also payable up front on arrival on behalf of the researcher and all their dependants. Someone who has been offered a post at a salary quite likely to be under £50,000 a year will be charged up to £25,000 a year at the point of entry.

The Government have abandoned all pretence that these payments are assessed on the basis of regaining direct costs. The rise in visa charges has been justified by the Home Office as helping to pay for the cost of police forces and border services. The increase in the health charge has been hailed in official government statements as contributing to the cost of offering doctors an increase in pay. These charges are far higher than those imposed by comparable countries with which we are competing for this sort of talent.

We are already in a situation in which graduate students who come to study in this country are pressed to leave their family behind: acceptable perhaps for a nine-month course but agonising for people with partners and children staying much longer. For post-doctoral researchers—precisely the people we want to attract—we are expecting some of the world’s most talented scientists to leave their families behind when they come here to support the UK’s scientific ambitions, or to mortgage their first year’s salary to pay these upfront costs.

Some in government have suggested that universities should pay these extra charges themselves if they really want to attract such talented people, or that grants for research should have to include funds to defray these additional costs—taxing universities and grant-giving foundations to avoid having to pay for public goods out of our own taxes. These people will be paying UK taxes from when they start to work here. In effect, they will be paying twice for health services and, if they want to renew their visa after five years, they will have again to pay a similar amount up front.

This represents a total contradiction in government policy: the Home Office doing all it can to keep talented people out while universities and research centres, with the Government’s active encouragement, are trying to bring them in. I first came across this mess when my son returned from 10 years working in the United States with an American wife. Some of his friends from Cambridge, working in some of the best American universities, decided to stay in the USA because of the way they thought the British Government would treat their American wives and children if they accepted posts back here.

I understand that the Home Office does not always pay much attention to other aspects of government policy. I know that there are many on the right of the Conservative Party who are hostile to universities as hotbeds of leftie intellectuals. They are happy to undermine their finances and unconcerned about universities’ scientific ambitions. But sensible Ministers, such as the noble Lord, Lord Murray, will want their Government to rediscover strategic planning and coherent policy. So I ask the Minister to take this back and tell his colleagues that these increased charges discourage British researchers from returning from abroad and foreign researchers from coming to work here. It is bad enough being nasty to the families of refugees; it is counterproductive to make talented people we want to attract to the country pay through the nose for the privilege of a family life while working here.