UK-EU Relationship (European Affairs Committee Report)

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure for me to follow the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, with whom I first became involved in the European adventure, if one might call it that, as far back as 1977. I have listened to his wisdom a very great deal since then. It is also a pleasure for me to congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and those who served on the European Affairs Committee that produced this report. I was very sorry when I had to leave the committee earlier this year. I can see that the quality of the work that the committee has done has continued to improve since my departure.

This report is exactly the kind of thing which was needed at present. It is a detailed and workmanlike assessment of how to make the UK-EU relationship work better for this country as a whole, as well as for the EU. When I say as a whole, I mean for individuals, businesses and interest groups. As my noble friend Lord Lamont said, the important thing now is to make Brexit work, and this report is an important contribution towards exactly that aim—towards getting things done which were left undone at the time of our departure, and the sooner that we can act on these matters, the better.

Reading the recommendations relating to creative artists, school visits, higher education and support for small businesses, as well as the sanitary and phytosanitary rules, brings home the extent of the lost opportunities. These are all matters on which my noble friend Lord Frost might have had something to say if he was here today. He could explain how it was that these matters were overlooked at the time of our departure. It is tragic, by which I mean that businesses, interest groups and individuals themselves have all suffered loss and lost opportunities. I am glad that this report has shown the way forward.

There is also much good sense in the report on the big political issues, such as the overall political relationship, defence and foreign policy co-operation, the institutional framework and green-related issues. But these matters will, of course, take time to resolve and will depend very much on circumstances within both this country and the EU. So far as the EU is concerned, they are by no means top of the agenda. The EU has its own problems in relation to immigration, the eurozone, energy security and of course Ukraine.

That brings me to my key point. Looking ahead, it seems that Ukraine will become an increasingly important factor in framing the EU’s approach to its relationship with the United Kingdom. Here, I am thinking of two quite separate but interrelated matters. On the one hand are the consequences that flow from Ukraine’s application to join the EU and how that is dealt with. However it is dealt with—whether Ukraine joins as a full member at some distant date or whether some special arrangement is made—the consequences of that decision are bound to be extremely far reaching on the structures of the European Union and will also create precedents in terms of relationships between the European Union and other countries. Ukraine is a transformational matter.

Another factor will be the huge costs involved in reconstructing the country and preparing it for eventual EU membership—or whatever other relationship is agreed. In the nature of things, the primary responsibility for financing and carrying through the preparations to bring Ukraine into the EU, or into whatever relationship is decided on, will be for the member states. But surely those countries which have played an important part in supporting Ukraine during the war—the United Kingdom has been particularly prominent in that respect—will also play a part in reconstructing Ukraine after the war, whenever that may be.

That reconstruction will involve the creation of a very close and novel relationship with the EU. The terms and conditions on which we co-operate with the EU in Ukraine will, I think, have a very great influence on the nature of our overall relationship and how it might play out, and it is not too soon for us to start thinking about that now.

European Union: Border Control Checks

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an extremely good point. If I may dwell on it for a moment, it is obviously true that the legal framework for Northern Ireland and Ireland goods coming to Great Britain is different because of the unfettered access commitment. In practice, at the moment, it is not always possible to distinguish between the two categories of goods, but that will change in future and we will need a definitive solution to this question. Of course, the degree of pragmatism that we show in future to Irish goods coming to Great Britain will be related to the degree of pragmatism and flexibility that the EU shows in allowing goods to move freely around all parts of the UK.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lord, in the light of the questions and answers about Northern Ireland, did the Minister see the report in the Financial Times last week that the most rapidly growing region in the United Kingdom is in fact Northern Ireland? Does this not show that, whatever the problems surrounding the protocol, Northern Ireland is doing extremely well at present from being part of the United Kingdom and part of the EU?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I am not sure that I share the characterisation that Northern Ireland is both part of the United Kingdom and part of the EU. It is certainly in a somewhat different position as regards goods trade. Northern Ireland is a very successful part of the United Kingdom, has some great companies and has a very bright future. I am very happy that, as the FT article noted, it has grown well. Nevertheless, the burdens of the protocol are significant and will probably grow over time, so we need to find a solution.

Inflation

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Forsyth has achieved a notable success in making statistics both interesting and controversial. Normally there is nothing so dry as statistics, but he has demonstrated by his speech, the committee by its report and the noble Lord, Lord Darling, by his speech that statistics are not only dry but have a profound impact on people’s standard of living, sense of well-being and, therefore, political attitudes. The choice between the RPI and the CPI, with its problems, means that people are either better off than they thought they were or they have resentment because they are worse off than they should be. In practical terms, that means that decisions that ought to be taken in a democratic fashion, and debated and made judgments on in Parliament, are left at the whim of statistical inconsistencies. This is very wrong.

Having listened carefully to my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Darling, it is difficult to think of anything to add to what they have said. I had prepared a speech, but everything that I had intended to say has already been said. Rather than make that speech, I should like to emphasise, in no particular order, what is at stake: first, the position of the statistical authority; secondly, the way in which the Government make judgments between different sections of the community—bond holders, students, commuters and the rest; and, thirdly, as a result, the way in which decisions are taken in Parliament that have an immediate impact on the lives of ordinary people.

My noble friend Lord Forsyth has carefully explained our recommendations, and it remains for me to say only that this important debate demonstrates the unanimity of the members of the committee, who are people drawn from each of the political parties, of different backgrounds and approaches, in supporting this important report. We look forward to what my noble friend Lord Young will say. Earlier, he said that he had been a Treasury Minister, and we look forward not only to his response but that of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whoever he may be in a short time.

Making Tax Digital for VAT (Economic Affairs Committee Report)

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, it is a matter of great regret to me that, because Brexit is such a dominant issue in our politics, I often find myself in opposition to my noble friend Lord Forsyth. It is therefore a great pleasure to be able to say how much I admire the way he has chaired the Economic Affairs Committee and its sub-committee. The fruit of his chairmanship has been shown in the considerable media attention that our reports receive. They receive it not only because a certain amount of effort is put into obtaining that coverage but because they deal authoritatively with matters of topical and widespread concern, and in a detailed fashion that demands answers. The Government—HMRC, on this occasion—have largely responded in the same spirit. I do not by any means accept all the points made by HMRC and shall come to those in a few moments, but the quality of the response has been rather good.

That leads me to make a general remark. In inquiries and debates of this kind, we inevitably focus on issues of concern and matters that have gone wrong; that is what we are for. But, having been paying taxes of one sort or another for the last 60 years now, on the whole I have found the Inland Revenue—latterly HMRC—quite reasonable to deal with. My affairs have certainly been simple compared with those of many businesses, including many small businesses, but in my relationship with it over many years I have not found HMRC difficult to deal with. I have found it reasonably sensible and understanding of problems that have arisen. It is invidious to compare one public-facing government department with another, because their functions are very different, but if one compares HMRC’s record with that of the various departments which at different times have had responsibility for social security, HMRC emerges rather well from any such comparison—perhaps particularly so at the moment.

My noble friend Lord Forsyth went through the recommendations and details of the two reports and there is no point in members of the committee following each of the points that he made, so I shall confine myself to very few. I agree with his strictures about the pace at which Making Tax Digital is being introduced and I feel that this is an example of the problems that arise when those who work for very large organisations, with a wealth of specialist expertise, have difficulty in understanding the way in which those who have small businesses and do not have very much expertise at their disposal actually live.

Many years ago now, I was chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, which is a very fine body. We dealt a great deal with small airlines, as well as with large ones. I remember being struck by how difficult some of the officials at the CAA found it to put themselves in the position of people running small businesses and understanding the pressures on them. In the case of Making Tax Digital, we have another example of that. Having said that, however, the Government have a responsibility to encourage the digitalisation of the economy. The process of introducing taxes is one way they may do that, so I recognise that fact.

So far as the other proposals are concerned, on treating taxpayers fairly I applaud the Government’s acceptance of our view that HMRC should do more to publicise action against promoters of tax avoidance schemes. These schemes are of course promoted to boost the profits of the advisers, sometimes to the very great disadvantage of the clients of those firms, who get into trouble later. The important thing here is to change the risk-to-reward ratio to make it clear to the promoters that they are running great reputational risks by plugging schemes at the outer limits of what is permissible, or go beyond what is permissible.

By contrast, I greatly regret the Government’s rejection of our proposal that naming and shaming should be restricted to those who have actually broken the law, as distinct from those engaged in legal activities of which HMRC disapproves. I realise that that naming and shaming is not done casually, and that various steps must be gone through before HMRC goes public in these matters. But the practice of naming and shaming people who have not done something that is, or has been demonstrated to be, illegal seems contrary to the basic principle of natural justice. It is also in line with the deeply objectionable current practice of using innuendo and denigration to generate accusations and change behaviour. This is not something a government department should participate in. It is dangerously close to the way the police and others have behaved in the case of sexual allegations, the most extreme example of which is that of Wiltshire Police and Ted Heath.

I also regret the out-of-hand rejection of the proposal to give the First-tier Tribunal the power to conduct judicial review. I accept that, as HMRC says in its response, the Ministry of Justice and the judiciary would need to be involved in reviewing the need and mechanism for such a change, but the terms in which the rejection are couched show no recognition of the reasons for the recommendation. They are to try to even out the balance between the small taxpayer on one hand and the large government department on the other. It would have been helpful if rather more detail or meat could have been given in explaining why this is such a bad idea.

In general, we must recognise that we are dealing with a government department that has a good record. We are putting forward proposals to improve it and to try to ensure that those who work for large government departments, with all the expertise at their disposal, show a greater understanding of the position of small businesses and individuals who lack those advantages.

Civil Service Impartiality

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Well, whether the accusations made in the House of Commons last week constitute bullying, I am not quite so sure. I think they were ill-advised, given that the evidence did not stack up for the accusations that were made. But I agree with what the noble Lord said in his final remarks that the people who come out of it worse are those who make the accusations, rather than those they are levied against.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

Does my noble friend believe that those MPs and Ministers who impugn the impartiality and good faith of our civil servants are behaving very much as President Trump does in the United States with regard to the FBI?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am not sure I want to open up a fresh front from the Dispatch Box, but I hope President Trump will read what my noble friend has just said.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with those who say that this Bill is not about whether we should leave the EU or stay in it—it is about how to ensure against a legal void when we leave. On that basis, it is a Bill that must, of course, pass. The question is in what form it should leave this House and return to the Commons. As has been widely pointed out, it represents an unprecedented arrogation of power to the Executive. Our duty, therefore, is to do as much as we can to ensure that the arrangements in place will be those that ensure that the powers are exercised in a responsible and democratic fashion, in accordance with parliamentary sovereignty and the rights of the devolved Administrations. It will be for the House of Commons to take the final decisions, but we must do what we can to lay before it a Bill that meets those criteria.

This means that the Bill requires substantial revision. I hope very much that the Government will take into account the serious concerns raised by the Constitution Committee and others with parliamentary and constitutional experience. I was encouraged by what my noble friend the Leader of the House had to say on that subject. I hope very much that noble Lords on the other Front Bench will pay very serious attention to what is said and not resort to any accusations of sabotage or anything of that nature. For my part, I hope that I will in general support Ministers. However, I will feel able to do so only if I am convinced by the merits of the case they put forward and that they have taken into account the arguments others have made, even if they have not accepted them.

I hope that the Government will understand another concern that I have. Our debates take place against a background of not only negotiations in Brussels but a struggle between different factions in the Cabinet and within the Conservative Party. Indeed, it is very hard to know at times what official policy is, let alone in what direction it is heading. This uncertainty is bound to influence the way in which—I was going to say “one” but I should say “I”—I respond to ministerial arguments on the Bill and to the way in which Ministers deal with amendments that are put forward. That is true of not just those clauses and amendments relating to our domestic law; it is even more true of those relating to our future relationship with the European Union. On that question I would like to make two points in the limited time available.

First, we must aim to strike a balance between the least possible economic and trading disruption in the short term and scope for regulatory divergence in the long term. That sentence is easy to say but the objective is extremely difficult to reach. As time progresses, the EU will develop differently from how it would have done if we were still members. We need to ensure that while remaining closely aligned to it, we are able to adopt policies that reflect our own views and priorities.

My second point is directed at those to whom the role and scope of the European Court of Justice and European law has become neuralgic. I ask them to consider the extent to which the United States listing requirements and sanctions regulations impinge on the freedom of action and practices of British companies and citizens. We live in a world in which a middle-sized economic power is inevitably constrained by the extraterritorial reach of the larger powers. If we are to prosper and have a successful trading and commercial relationship with the rest of the world, we are going to have to accept that reality. We will certainly have to accept it in any deal we might do with the United States. We need to accept it in relation to the European Union and in due course we will find that we have to accept it in relation to China.

I end on a point which others have made: if we are to secure a good deal—or, indeed, any deal—in Brussels, the Cabinet must end its internecine warfare and Cabinet Ministers must curb their personal ambitions. They must rally behind the Prime Minister and get stuck into the job in hand.

Intergenerational Fairness in Government Policy

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Thursday 26th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Willetts declared an interest as a member of the baby boomer generation. I am older than he is, and I gather that mine is the silent generation—perhaps because it is thought that we are no longer capable of speech.

I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, on bringing this matter to the attention of the House. It is one of the great issues of the present time. It has been given added topicality by the report of the FCA on young people’s finances, published in the last week or ten days. I am also conscious that not only my noble friend Lord Willetts but my noble friend Lady Altmann and the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, have great expertise in this area, which I certainly do not.

The issue can be quite simply stated. We of the older generation have, in recent years, acquired a disproportionate share of the nation’s wealth. Not only that but, because of the triple lock and various other devices, we enjoy greater protection against the vagaries of economic life than any other generation. This is the result of decisions taken in the past which were themselves designed to bring about intergenerational fairness. Previous generations of pensioners endured the hardships of the 1930s and the Second World War. When the rest of the country was getting richer, for a long time they lagged behind. Decisions were taken that enabled them to catch up and safeguard their position. At the time, those were correct decisions.

We ought now to be thinking in terms of the same generosity of spirit for the generations that come behind us. We are now in a situation where, except for the very oldest members of the silent generation, those who are drawing a pension have grown up during the years of prosperity and peace. As everybody in this House knows, we have reached a point where the typical pensioner household is now better off than the typical family of working age. That cannot be right, given the responsibilities that families of working age have and the position of people whose responsibilities have very largely been discharged. Of course, I agree very strongly with my noble friend Lord Willetts that we are not talking about intergenerational warfare but intergenerational mutual support. The older generation supports the younger generation in a variety of ways, depending on the prosperity of the families concerned, but they also look to the younger generation for other kinds of support. To achieve that support in the circumstances that now exist, some redistribution is necessary.

There has been talk recently of tax breaks for people in their 20s and 30s. I am not a fan of that device because, were there to be tax breaks for people in one decade or another, inevitably unfairness would arise. If you give tax breaks to those in their 20s and 30s, you could have people earning a great deal of money in their 20s paying less tax than people earning less money in their 50s, so I do not think that is the right way to go. However, there is scope for more inducements for hypothecated savings—for example, to save for pensions and in ways that the saver is unable to get at in the short term. There is obviously scope for reducing stamp duty but I do not think there is any point doing that unless we combine it with a considerable increase in housebuilding: otherwise, it would merely have the effect of pushing up house prices. We need to reduce stamp duty for younger people, perhaps for first-time buyers, but do it in conjunction with a much more ambitious housebuilding programme.

The findings in the recent report of the Social Mobility Commission have a considerable role to play in resolving the issues that we face today, particularly what it said about apprenticeship policy and persuading universities to link courses more directly to employment opportunities and to provide better advice to students during their university careers and when they graduate on where their education can be put to best advantage. We also need to give a good deal more thought than we have done to the other possibilities offered by tertiary education, and to the balance between different forms of tertiary education in this country.

Anything that we do to resolve this issue will cost money. There is no escape from grasping the nettle and starting to cut back some of the privileges that we of the silent generation and the baby boomers enjoy. In particular, a start must be made on phasing out the triple lock, which next year will yield a particular bonanza because of the September inflation figure.

Finally, I urge the young to vote. The reason the older generation has so many privileges that are so difficult to tackle is because old people vote and young people do not. We saw the result of that in the referendum and in a different and, from my point of view, rather less fortunate, fashion at the last general election. However, if younger people would vote in the same numbers as older people, it would be a great deal less difficult for Governments to tackle the issues that need to be tackled if we are to secure a greater degree of intergenerational fairness.

Kids Company

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

My Lords, I hear what the noble Baroness has to say. When a ministerial direction is given, it is automatically referred to the NAO, as a number of your Lordships will know. It is then expected to be passed to the Public Accounts Committee, and it is up to the PAC to decide what it wishes to do.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Morris of Handsworth]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords, it is the turn of the Conservative Benches, and I am sure the House wants to hear from my noble friend Lord Tugendhat. I think we should go then to the noble Lord, Lord Morris, who has been very patient.

[Lord Tugendhat]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that in the corporate sector, rotation is the normal rule. It is very rare for non-executive directors to stay for more than three terms of three years. I read in the press that the chairman of the trustees of Kids Company has been in office for some 18 years. I do not know whether other trustees have been in office for an equally long time. Does the Minister agree that the lack of rotation is perhaps one of the causes of the difficulties that have occurred and that bringing new blood on to boards of directors or trustee boards is one safeguard against the sorts of problems that have arisen on this occasion?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I entirely agree. That is a very interesting point. Again, I point to the Charity Commission’s investigation into this. It will look at the role of trustees—not just in Kids Company but more broadly, I hope—and the lessons it can learn from that. I hasten to add that trustees obviously provide a considerable wealth of experience. One needs to get the balance right between rotation and retaining that experience on a board of trustees.

National Parliaments (EUC Report)

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Monday 15th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to have been a member of the committee that produced this report. I join others in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, on the way in which he chaired the committee and brought it to a successful conclusion. The report deals with two subjects crucial to the future of the European Union. One is its insufficient democratic roots and the other is the lack of an EU-wide demos. Just as we on our committee have drawn from ideas and practices of other parliaments—the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, rightly paid tribute to the Dutch and the Danes—so I hope that other parliaments will look at the ideas that we have put forward and draw on them.

My reference to insufficient democratic roots and the lack of an EU-wide demos does not mean that I fail to recognise the enormous progress made by the European Parliament in recent years. I will not pretend that I am happy with all that it does or has done, but that its power and influence in European Union affairs and over both the Council and the Commission has increased very considerably cannot be denied. The recent initiative of Spitzenkandidaten is an example of that. None the less, the European Parliament’s debates, decisions and personalities still fail to resonate within the member states. We see that in terms of electoral turnout and media coverage. For the vast majority of people throughout the European Union, the fulcrum of political debate and decision remains their national parliaments. Therefore, if we are to strengthen the European Union’s democratic accountability and framework and create an EU-wide demos, national parliaments must be more closely involved in European Union affairs.

The European Parliament and national parliaments must not be seen as opposing or even as rival forces; rather, they should be seen as complementary forms of democratic legitimacy, each with its own role in the European Union framework. In large, decentralised and democratic countries such as the United States and Germany, one of the two Houses in their bicameral legislatures represents the component states. This is the principle, suitably adapted for a vast Union of 28 sovereign states, with more than 500 million inhabitants, that I wish to see carried forward in the European Union. The specific proposals in this report go some way towards doing that and I fully support them. However, in addition, I should like to make three additional points of my own.

My first point is directed to the Commission. I recognise the practical problems of responding to the demands of 28 parliaments, many of which have two Chambers. I welcome the responsibility for inter-institutional relations accorded to Mr Frans Timmermans in his role as first vice-president, but he is a very busy man and he has a great many responsibilities. This particular responsibility does not feature very high on the list. I noticed that when I looked at the website. Therefore, more is needed.

Many years ago, in the late 1970s, when I was a member of the Jenkins Commission, Mr Jenkins signalled a change in the relationship between the Commission and the European Parliament and the enhanced role of the latter by appointing a commissioner for European affairs, the senior commissioner at that time, Lorenzo Natali, an Italian vice-president. These days, there are not enough proper jobs to go around for 28 commissioners. In those days, some of us had three or four directorates-general, while some people now have less than one directorate-general. So I do not hesitate to suggest setting up a new body in the Commission to provide work for a commissioner. I think that the Commission should consider setting up a department for parliamentary affairs with a commissioner responsible for dealing with both national parliaments and the European Parliament as his main responsibility. By dealing with both the national parliaments and the European Parliament, it would emphasise the fact that these are two complementary forms of democratic legitimacy and not rival forms. Were there to be such a body within the European Commission, it would facilitate the Commission’s dealings with the national parliaments and make it less difficult for national parliaments to make their voice and opinion heard in Brussels. That is my first suggestion.

My second suggestion is to Her Majesty's Government, or at least to the Conservative element in it—the element that I support. I am delighted that the Government have explicitly welcomed the committee’s suggestion for greater co-operation between national parliaments and the European Union Parliament and also welcomed a greater engagement between the national parliaments. However, I wonder whether the Government—or the Conservative element in it—have fully thought through the likely consequences of such a development. As we all know, parliaments work through political parties, so this closer co-operation and engagement will be conducted by and through political parties, which in turn is likely to enhance the existing links between parties in the European Parliament and parties in the national parliaments and to foster new combinations of parties. That in turn will strengthen the influence of the big political families, left, right and centre. This will, I am afraid, leave those parties, such as the Conservative Party, which are not part of a big political family, at a very considerable disadvantage. I strongly recommend to the Conservative element in the Government that it should seek to end this self-imposed isolation. In doing so, it would be able significantly to increase its influence and, perhaps, avoid débâcles of the sort that occurred not so long ago over the appointment of the Commission President.

In this respect, I would draw a parallel with what happened over enlargement. As noble Lords will recall, the United Kingdom, under Conservative as well as Labour Governments, was one of the strongest advocates of bringing into the European Union the countries of central and eastern Europe. Somehow, it did not seem to foresee what this would mean in terms of free movement of labour, and it is now faced with the consequences. I would not like a similar lack of foresight to lead to a disadvantage for my party in terms of the European Parliament and the greater engagement of national parliaments.

My third point is addressed to the House of Commons. At present, EU matters are largely seen as the preserve of the admirable European Scrutiny Committee, under its very energetic chairman. However, just as national parliaments can reinforce the European Parliament in promoting democratic accountability and strengthening the democratic framework of the European Union, so other Commons committees could reinforce the role of the European Scrutiny Committee. I should like to see the subject-specific committees in the House of Commons become more engaged in considering the impact of existing EU legislation, and possible changes to it, whether by addition, amendment, or the return of powers to the member states. I should also like to see the subject-specific committees in the House of Commons do much more to hold British Ministers to account for what they do and say and advocate in the various Councils of Ministers. I should like to see this done both before Ministers go to Brussels and when they return. In that way, a very considerable strengthening in democratic accountability would occur.

I strongly support the proposals in the report, but I should also like consideration to be given to the three that I have added.

European Union Committee: Report on 2013-14 (EUC Report)

Lord Tugendhat Excerpts

Thursday 24th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, as the first speaker after the presentation of the report by the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, I would like to say a few words in praise of him. Being the chairman of this committee is a very formidable undertaking. It means being the ringmaster of a multi-ring circus, but he manages to pay equal attention, as far as I can see, to the work of all the various sub-committees. He says that most of the work of the committee is done by the sub-committees, which certainly may be true, but he is involved in all of them, and that is a very considerable burden.

I also pay tribute to one particular report produced by the main European Union Committee, and that is the report entitled, The Role of National Parliaments in the European Union. Not only was it a very good report, but it is a timely issue and something which the whole European Union would do well to study and consider. I think that, to some extent, we can fairly claim to have been the thought leader in that respect. It has also had the very beneficial spin-off of enabling us to get closer to a number of other parliaments, as well as to the European Parliament. That too has been a great advantage.

I speak as chairman of Sub-Committee C, which deals with external affairs. The noble Lord, Lord Boswell, has already mentioned much of what we do, so I can be very brief. Our main task has, of course, been our report on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, which is the most ambitious undertaking of its kind the world has ever seen and one with enormous potential to benefit economic growth on both sides of the Atlantic. I have been very gratified by the response both of this House and of the Government; my committee shares that view. The report was debated very shortly after its publication on the Floor of the House and the Minister on that occasion provided a very full response to our debate on behalf of the Government. As he is the noble Lord, Lord Livingston of Parkhead, I hope he is enjoying all the activities currently taking place at Parkhead. In both that response and the Government’s formal written response, which arrived last week, we have been very gratified by the extent to which the Government have accepted our proposals and agreed with our recommendations. I will not go into detail, but basically they have accepted pretty much all of them in a very comprehensive and considered reply.

I want to make only one comment, or caveat, perhaps. While I am very pleased that the Government accept our need for a more positive, cross-departmental communications strategy, I should like to see rather more evidence of that being brought into effect. The debate on TTIP is quite an uphill task in this country, but more particularly in some others, such as the United States, France and Germany. The Government’s support for a more vigorous strategy is certainly very welcome and I look forward to its being put into effect.

I also pay tribute to the Commission. We were very impressed by both Commissioner De Gucht and the negotiator, Mr Garcia Bercero. The openness with which the Commission conducts this negotiation, and the way in which it seeks to remain in contact with interested parties in the member states, is very impressive. Given the size of the European Union now, that in itself is an achievement. Of course, we do not know who Commissioner De Gucht’s successor will be, but it is one of the most important portfolios in the Commission. I hope a heavyweight and well qualified Commissioner will be put in charge of that portfolio in the Juncker Commission.

As the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, said, we have now embarked on a study into EU-Russia relations. We are at only the very earliest stages and would be hard-pressed to finish it in the time available, given the length of the Recess and the need to finish early in the new year. However, I can already say we are very concerned by the EU’s lack of shared analysis and common purpose and its inability to reach timely agreement on responses and objectives. We intend to come up with proposals to address these issues after taking evidence not just in this country and from other member states in the Commission, but in Russia, we hope.

In connection with that, we believe it is very important to secure and convey, in our report, a better understanding of how Russia sees its relationship with Europe and how it thinks that might be put on a better footing. We will focus on what happens in the EU, but it is very important that we should hear what the Russians have to say and form a judgment on the approach that they take. We will also consider the EU’s relations with those other states that lie between us and Russia which need to have a good relationship with Russia but which certainly need to have a good relationship with the EU.

Finally, I want to say how much we appreciate the help that we have received throughout the year from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. By that, I mean not just from officials in London but, in the course of our travels, from posts in Brussels and Washington. We have received great assistance of a practical nature. I am certainly conscious of the fact that, given the enormous number of documents that are processed, the speed with which we have, generally speaking, received responses has been impressive.

I raise just one caveat. I think that sometimes the Foreign Office—and this is obviously a matter for Ministers rather than for officials—is reluctant to allow officials to speak on the record. I can understand why that should be, because the matters are often delicate and often controversial. It is very helpful for the committee to receive off-the-record briefings, which are frequently very interesting and perhaps sometimes more interesting than on-the-record evidence, but when we are producing reports, we can take account only of what we hear on the record. Sometimes it would be helpful for gaining a better understanding of the attitude of Her Majesty’s Government if the Foreign Office could be a little less restrictive in that respect.

That said, I feel that, in general, the approach of the Foreign Office to our work, and responses to our reports and what we have to say when we write letters and so forth, is very encouraging and helpful. I have great pleasure in supporting the proposal of the noble Lord, Lord Boswell.