Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Lord Touhig and Lord Bishop of Wakefield

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Grand Committee

[The Lord Bishop of Wakefield]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 2, which is in my name and co-sponsored by the noble Lords, Lord Ramsbotham and Lord Touhig. Perhaps I should begin with a mild apology for being slightly overdressed for this Room but, with the warning that there might be a Division, there would not be time to get backstage to get sorted out in time for that.

I begin by thanking the Minister for making so much time available earlier today in his “open house” at which this amendment was given the chance of some airing. It was a most constructive lead into this debate and confirms the willingness of Her Majesty’s Government to engage in dialogue over the Bill. At Second Reading, the introduction of Clause 2 was welcomed generally by this House. However, there remains a concern from a wide compass of people as to whether the reporting mechanisms envisaged in Clause 2 are sufficiently robust and adequately objective. In earlier debates and in the very helpful briefings arranged by the Minister, I have raised this issue.

Perhaps a key to our discussions is the covenantal relationship between the nation, the Government and the Armed Forces. Covenant is a concept with clear foundations within the Jewish and Christian religious traditions. Essentially, it is rooted in trust between various parties. Such trust is made secure only by setting the covenant within properly defined parameters.

This amendment seeks to address two issues. It is notoriously difficult for any institution or organisation to stand outside itself in an objective critical fashion. This is to expect more than is reasonable from either the Ministry of Defence or the Secretary of State. But a second issue is of equal importance. Vital in all our discussions is the proper, just and generous treatment of veterans, which has been referred to already today. The media have had a field day in the past couple of years in focusing on untreated post-traumatic stress disorder. This is of course a crucial matter to address but, as we have heard, the range of concern facing veterans runs far more widely than this alone. Included here will be issues relating to education, welfare and social security, and to areas relating to social services—family breakdown or even homelessness.

It is unrealistic to expect the Ministry of Defence and thus, by virtue of that, the Secretary of State, to have the ability to respond in each of these areas, including health and notably post-traumatic distress. The MoD has neither the competence nor the facilities to cover this enormous range of challenging concerns. There must be one integrative reviewer who can bring together the resources of the various government ministries. This person will need to respond to individual cases effectively and to engage with local authority provision where necessary. These are matters which each of us will have seen testing the resources in all the localities in which we live.

This amendment aims to provide flexibility in response through the presence of the independent reviewer of armed services welfare. It would allow for such findings to be reported to Parliament annually. It may be that Her Majesty’s Government, in framing Clause 2, took some of these issues and proposals into account. If so, it would be good to know why such a reviewer was not included in the proposed legislation.

Once again I want to emphasise how encouraged I have been by the willingness of Her Majesty’s Government to take the military covenant so seriously and their being prepared to move things on. None the less, at present I am clear that further strengthening is essential if the numbers of our Armed Forces, both serving and retired, are to receive what they undoubtedly deserve. I do not intend to press the amendment at this stage—certainly from how I feel things are going so far this afternoon—but I shall bring the amendment back should that seem necessary at a later stage in the proceedings.

I am most grateful to my two co-sponsors, and indeed to the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, for their encouragement and advice on this.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I have no doubt that the approach outlined in Amendment 2, spoken to by the right reverend Prelate, is one to which we should give careful consideration, which is why I put my name to it. For any report to Parliament on the operation of the military covenant to have credibility, it should be underpinned by an independent review of the welfare needs of both existing service men and women and our 5.5 million veterans. In that way the operation of the military covenant will be properly audited.

On Second Reading I was not alone, I think, in expressing concern that there are just three areas listed in the Bill on which the Secretary of State should report—healthcare, education and housing. The Secretary of State alone would decide whether to report on anything else. If Parliament enacts this Bill as it stands, there would be precious little opportunity for future Parliaments to do anything about the issues to be reported. It would be entirely a matter for the Secretary of State. In the coming years there might be many other areas of concern about the welfare of service men and women—and veterans—that should be included in a report to Parliament. The amendment tabled by the right reverend Prelate, if accepted, would afford that flexibility. In my experience, all too often Governments as a rule, Ministers in some instances, and the civil servants always like to have things buttoned down in legislation, leaving little room for manoeuvre or interpretation. I was a strong advocate for that when I sat on the other side.

The scope of this amendment would, I believe, better fit the need of implementing the covenant without being overprescriptive. Under the broad heading of “welfare”, it would be possible to widen the areas to be examined and reported on from the three specified in the Bill without the need to resort to further primary legislation.

I was also concerned on Second Reading to understand how the Secretary of State for Defence would, without being given some special powers, be able to examine and report on healthcare, education and housing for veterans when these responsibilities were held by other Ministers in the devolved Administrations and other bodies that are not answerable to him. I suggested at that time that the National Audit Office, for which I have a high regard, could carry out an independent audit. It has a fine track record and an international reputation for thoroughness. I took the view that such an audit could be presented to Parliament at the same time that the Secretary of State makes his annual report. I think that the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, and the noble Lord, Lord Selkirk of Douglas, also supported the idea of an independent audit when they spoke on Second Reading. My experience of serving on the Public Accounts Committee in the other place taught me that there is very much merit in monitoring and auditing new systems of service delivery, and the military covenant is certainly that, which is, of course, at the heart of this Bill.

I believe that appointing an independent Armed Forces reviewer, which this amendment proposes, dedicated to looking at matters concerning the welfare of service men and women and veterans alone, is even better than my suggestion of bringing in the National Audit Office.