Special Educational Needs

Debate between Lord Touhig and Baroness Smith of Malvern

Thursday 24th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I agree with the noble Lord. In fact, so does the National Audit Office, which published a report this morning, and so do members of the former Government, who have described it as a lose-lose system. That is exactly why we need to ensure that within our mainstream schools, and in our early years provision, where most children’s special educational needs can and should be identified, we have better support and training for the staff and more support for those children when their needs have been identified, short of having to go through the very arduous process of getting an education health and care plan, on which the noble Lord is absolutely right.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a vice-president of the National Autistic Society. Rachel de Souza, the Children’s Commissioner for England, has recently produced a report on waiting times to get a diagnosis for autism. She says:

“We have created a system … working against itself”.


Children need the diagnosis before they can get SEND provision and they have to wait up to five years, sometimes, for a diagnosis. Will my noble friend look at this and the report? In the meantime, children are getting no help and support at all. We have to change this.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend is absolutely right. That is why, as part of the 10-year plan for change and modernisation in the NHS, I am assured that there will be a focus on reducing the length of waiting times and improving the provision of autism services. The SEND Code of Practice is also clear that meeting the needs of a child with special educational needs and autism does not require a diagnostic label or a test. We expect schools and colleges to monitor the progress of all pupils and put support in place where needed. There has been some good work—for example, by the Autism Education Trust—to provide a range of training and support for staff on autism. However, it is clear that there is more we need to do, both to identify and then to support children and young people in this situation.

Schools: Mental Health and Poor Attendance

Debate between Lord Touhig and Baroness Smith of Malvern

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My Lords, I know that the noble Baroness has done much work in this area and, obviously, has had a Private Member’s Bill on it. Access to mental health professionals will be for all schools, secondary and primary. We are working with the Department of Health and Social Care to ensure that we get that model right and that we can, as she emphasises, provide that early support to alleviate the need for more acute mental health provision for young people, I hope.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend to her position and congratulate her on her appointment to the House. Research by the Disabled Children’s Partnership found that only one in three disabled children receive the support they need in education, and only one in five receive the support they need within the health service. In the light of these findings, it is unsurprising that mental health issues prevent many disabled children continuing their education. Can she assure the House that these two barriers in particular will receive urgent attention from the Government, because they are destroying lives?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend identifies particular issues around mental health and special educational needs and disability. There are 1.6 million children identified with SEND. Unfortunately, outcomes are poor and confidence in that provision is declining. That is why we are working hard and, as I mentioned in my speech last week, are willing to engage widely to provide ways in which we can support those children and improve a system that is currently failing too many of them.