Passport e-Gates Network Outage

Debate between Lord Teverson and Lord Sharpe of Epsom

Monday 13th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I can reassure the noble Viscount that I am being honest. The simple fact is that this is not a repetition of the previous outage, which was unrelated to this capacity issue. The capacity relating to this incident has now been doubled, in effect, so I am confident that the problem is currently fixed. The previous issue related to a different set of upgrades, as far as I understand.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I shall be a little bit more positive and say, first, that since their introduction these gates have been tremendous in terms of increasing mobility and getting people through airports generally. I welcome them in terms of people being able to travel relatively freely. At the moment—this may be slightly different data from that of my noble friend—I understand that seven non-European nations are able to use the gates, including South Korea. Can the Minister say whether more negotiations are going on and whether we will be able to welcome more nations to this facility? Secondly, Ireland is not part of Schengen; it is part of the common travel area that we are the major part of. One key area for security was the Schengen Information System, which has an alert system in terms of bad guys and people who we would not want to come into this country. Can the Minister remind me whether we are still seeking entry or sharing Schengen Information System data, whether that is still possible or whether it has happened?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his positivity, and I could not agree with him more. It is perfectly possibly now to get off a plane and, if you do not have luggage, to be out of an airport within 15 or 20 minutes, which is remarkable—Singapore levels of efficiency, some might say. As regards the sharing of information and Schengen, I am afraid I do not know the answer; I will have to write on that.

Stop and Search

Debate between Lord Teverson and Lord Sharpe of Epsom

Tuesday 20th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I am afraid that I disagree with the noble Lord in his assertions. Earlier, I gave statistics on the number of knives that have been removed from the streets and the number of crimes that have been prevented because of stop and search. I will give some more examples. In Manchester, the chief constable, Stephen Watson, has said that a 260% increase in the use of stop and search over a defined period correlated with a 50% reduction in firearms discharges and a fall in the number of complaints. I think that there has been a concerted effort to improve; my right honourable friend the Home Secretary said this the other day in the House of Commons. We need to improve the way in which stop and search is applied but also understood; to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, it has to be applied judiciously, proportionately and legitimately.

On the proportionality side, I go back to my original comments. Young black men are disproportionately likely to be the victims of crime. There are disparities in the use of stop and search—they remain and we acknowledge them—but it is positive that they have continued to decrease from nine and a half times in 2017-18 under the 2011 census data to 4.9 times in 2021-22 under the 2021 census data. I also referred to the changing methodology in collecting these statistics, which brings the numbers down even further. However, as I say, that methodology is very much in its initial stages. We will work more on it and will, I am sure, hear more about it.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, was not the exhortation by the Home secretary to chief constables an example of the Executive getting involved in operational matters? It seems to me completely straightforward that it was. Is that not wrong in terms of the way our policing should work?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

No, I do not think it was. She has written to all chief constables and asked them to provide strategic leadership and direction when it comes to the use of stop and search powers. That is not operational. She asked them to ensure that every officer is confident in the effective and appropriate use of all stop and search powers, including the use of suspicionless powers. That is not operational. Investigating instances where somebody is obstructing or interfering with the use of these powers and, if necessary, making arrests is not operational. As I have also said, she asked them to be proactive in publishing body-worn video footage, which will protect officers who conduct themselves properly and will also lead to instilling greater public confidence.