Non-departmental Public Bodies

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many jobs will be lost and how much money will be saved in the next comprehensive spending review period as a result of the decisions on the future of non-departmental public bodies announced on 14 October.

Lord Taylor of Holbeach: My Lords, the reforms to public bodies are about increasing the accountability of public services; they are not driven by savings. The primary vehicle for delivering savings will be the spending review. However, these proposals will help to support the Government’s commitment to reduce the costs of central Whitehall and its public bodies by at least one third. For each of the reforms, individual organisations will be working with their staff to make sensible plans as to when and how the workforce will need to change.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean]

My Lords, the Minister said that this is about accountability, and he is accountable to the House to give us as much information as he can. Is he saying that the Government have carried out no calculations on job losses and the costs involved, or is he saying that he will not tell us what those calculations are until tomorrow with the CSR? I refer to the handbook, which states:

“Ministers should be as open as possible with Parliament … refusing to provide information only when disclosure would not be in the public interest”.

How can the Minister justify not giving detailed information? Is he saying that it is not in the public interest to do so, or is it simply not in the Government’s interest to do so?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

Perhaps if I may say so, I do not think that I need reminding by the noble Baroness of my responsibility at the Dispatch Box. It is very important not to conflate the savings that will come from the public bodies review with the spending review which will be announced tomorrow. The savings from the public bodies review are being made within departments. The departments will make announcements about the detailed savings that they will be making consequent upon the spending review tomorrow.

[Lord Tomlinson]

Is the Minister saying that it is beyond the capacity of government to tot up the sums from individual government departments and to tell us, quite simply, how many jobs and how much money?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

It is important for noble Lords to bear in mind that this is a complex process. The decision-making process has been decided; now we have the implementation process. Implementation involves people’s lives and jobs and it would be recklessly irresponsible to anticipate how government departments will handle individual public bodies within their remits. That is why I am not in a position to give any further details than I have already given.

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tebbit]

I know, my Lords, that Labour Peers used to practise that game on the sofas in among the spin doctors, but it is overwhelmingly in the public interest that the spending review comes out first and that the details of it are then announced so that we can see how they fit into it.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I thank my noble friend for his intervention, which reinforces the point which I have been making, that there will be a series of announcements from individual spending departments consequent upon the spending review.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top]

My Lords—

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, the Minister says that the reduction in number of public bodies is not driven by savings, but can I refer him to the statement issued by the Prime Minister’s Office on 25 May which said that the savings resulting from the reduction in number of public bodies were anticipated to be £1 billion year on year? Will he admit to the House that the Government have found that enormous costs are associated with getting rid of the bodies? Why will he not answer the Question asked by my noble friend; namely, what is the actual figure for savings that the Government have come to?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I was asked a Question about the next spending review period, not about year on year. That is an important point to bear in mind. The Government have already announced that they will make £6 billion-worth of savings across departments. This has been outlined for the next spending review period. We will hear how it is worked out in the spending review tomorrow, when the Government will announce the tough decisions which need to be made. Reducing spending on quangos will contribute both to this year’s savings as well as those that will be announced tomorrow.

[Lord Maclennan of Rogart]

My Lords, I recognise that there are bound to be significant costs in implementing these attempts to tackle the democratic deficit, including dealing with redundancies, retraining and some further recruitment. However, will my noble friend enable Parliament to have rather more detailed scrutiny of these matters and in particular arrange for pre-legislative scrutiny of the public bodies Bill?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I thank my noble friend for that question because it enables me to say that the public bodies Bill is essentially an enabling Bill to provide a legislative framework to back up the decisions taken by the Government. I can assure noble Lords that it is likely to be introduced fairly soon. Meanwhile, as I have said, all decisions made by departments regarding their spending will be the subject of announcements which will be laid before the House.