Council Tax Benefit Localisation

Debate between Lord Stunell and Grahame Morris

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I congratulate the hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) on launching the debate, and the many colleagues who have contributed to it. It will be extremely challenging to answer all the points raised, so I will pick out what seem to me to be the key ones. It is time that will limit what I am able to say, certainly not the strength of the arguments.

There has always been recognition in the House that welfare spending needs to be targeted properly and that more needs to be done to tackle poverty by getting people off benefits and into work. Part of achieving that, and part of the Government’s strategy for doing so, is to return control over council tax support to councils and for local authorities to have the freedom to decide how to help provide for the most vulnerable in their communities.

[Grahame M. Morris]

Will the Minister give way?

[Andrew Stunell]

Yes, although it will reduce my chances of answering all the points that have been raised.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way on this fundamental point. Will he recognise that housing benefit is an in-work benefit?

[Andrew Stunell]

I suspect that the hon. Gentleman meant to say council tax benefit, which is what we are debating. I certainly accept the figures given by the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones). Of course, some of the recipients of the benefit are in work. That is not in doubt or dispute.

I remind Members that council tax benefit expenditure more than doubled between 1997 and 2010. Much of this debate has centred on two different but overlapping things: localisation, which, on the whole, Members present seem to approve of; and the reduction in the total amount of money being distributed, which, on the whole, they seem to disagree with. I understand the difficulties that this creates, but I remind Members that the reason why we have to reduce central Government spending is the inheritance that the Government received in 2010.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Stunell and Grahame Morris

Monday 30th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

8. What assessment he has made of the potential effects on lower-income households of his planned localisation of and changes to council tax benefit.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell)]

On 19 December my Department published an impact assessment setting out the Government’s assessment of the impacts of the reform of council tax support.

[Grahame M. Morris]

The Secretary of State has told councillors that they have a “moral duty” to freeze council tax this year, but at the same time he plans a cut of £500 million, or 10%, to council tax benefit for the poorest, so that the only people to face rising council tax bills next year in constituencies such as mine will be the most deprived and the working poor. Why is he balancing the books on the backs of the poorest?

[Andrew Stunell]

The hon. Gentleman’s original question referred to localisation and changes in level. I hope that he accepts that the localisation part of the proposal is absolutely right and fully consistent with what this Government are doing. The changes in level are necessary to tackle the deficit; they are part of the Government’s deficit reduction programme. I would remind him that the bill for council tax benefit has gone from £2 billion a year, in 1997, to £4 billion a year. That is largely a product of the rampant rises in council tax during the 13 years of Labour Government, so it seems absolutely right that we should tackle the deficit in this way.