Energy: Winter Supplies
Debate between Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
My noble friend follows on from what I said in response to the noble Baroness opposite. We need a sensible energy policy and we are working towards a sensible debate. We have ensured that we are hard on energy companies where we see that they are not being fair to the consumer. We have brought in the CMA and have tightened Ofgem’s rules—so the Government have done a lot. Energy companies need to play their part, but we as political parties need to play ours.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that when I worked in the electricity industry for the CEGB, we needed 18% spare capacity? She is now trying to persuade the House that 4% spare capacity will give security of supply. Can I assure her that that policy—particularly since we have 25% of energy coming from wind power—is endangering security of supply, not only for industry but for all consumers as well? I hope that the Government will treat this as a matter of urgency, particularly in light of the fire at Didcot over the weekend.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I think that I have made it clear through my responses that we are very aware of what we have in reserve. We are giving—and have given—powers to both national grid and Ofgem to ensure that we have enough supply.
Ukraine: Gas Supplies
Debate between Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
My Lords, there is no division on shale. There was a decision taken by the coalition Government to support a diverse range of energy supply, so I reassure the noble Lord that there is no dissent in government on this issue.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)
My Lords, we have been hearing a great deal about the massive coal supplies which are available off the north-east coast of this country, which would give this country energy independence for hundreds of years. Would it not be as well to find ways in which this resource could be used, on a green basis, by gasification or other means?
Baroness Verma
My Lords, the noble Lord is of course aware that the Government have invested £1 billion to ensure that CCS projects go forward. However, the Government have no plans to re-evaluate the role of coal in the UK’s energy mix.
Energy Bill
Debate between Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Baroness Verma
Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)
My Lords, I support the amendment, especially subsection (3)(b) dealing with,
“representation of employees in health and safety”.
That is so important. I worked at a power station myself. It was not a nuclear power station, but it was a power station. I was also secretary of the local advisory committee. I therefore have some experience of how essential it is that working people are taken into account regarding management of a plant.
Those advisory committees, incidentally, both at national and local level, were set up under the electricity and gas Acts of, I think, 1949 and 1950. There was a statutory duty to provide opportunities for employees to be consulted, at least, not only on matters of health and safety but on the broader workings of power stations and other installations. Indeed, it is necessary for employees to have those powers because it is helpful to management to ensure that working at ground level is safe. Managers cannot know everything that goes on, but most of the employees do. I support the amendment simply and solely because the question of employee consultation should appear somewhere in the Bill.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for this amendment to Part 3 of the Bill, and my noble friend Lord Jenkin for his sensible and measured intervention. Noble Lords will recall that we debated the matter of the make-up of the ONR board in Committee. Amendment 78A would introduce a requirement for the ONR board to have at least one member with experience of, or expertise in, nuclear safety management and one member with experience of, or expertise in, employee health and safety representation.
As currently drafted, the legislation allows the Secretary of State to appoint non-executives with skills and experience that best meet the needs of the ONR. This may include experience or expertise in nuclear safety, which I think is what the phrase “nuclear safety management” means, although this is already provided by the chief nuclear inspector, who is an executive member of the board. This experience or expertise may include that of employee health and safety representation. However, that should be a matter for the Secretary of State to determine over time and, while the matters identified in the amendment are no doubt of great importance, it should be left to the Secretary of State to determine whether that experience would benefit the ONR.
The ONR also requires flexibility to change its skills-mix over time as it develops as an organisation and as the industry it regulates changes. The amendment significantly restricts the flexibility available to the Secretary of State in setting those appointments to only two non-executives. It would be unwise to restrict the ONR’s flexibility in this way. However, the legislation does make provision for a non-executive with security expertise. This role is required to ensure that the ONR’s security interests are carried out in the context of wider national security policies. It is required to prevent nuclear security matters being developed in isolation from the wider, national security agenda. The current security non-executive, for instance, does not have specific nuclear security experience.
Turning to employee representation on the board, as I have explained, the intention is to have a skills-based board, not one made up of representatives. Therefore, just as it would be inappropriate for the board to include a representative of the nuclear industry, it is also inappropriate to mandate a representative of workers.
It is important to remind noble Lords that the Health and Safety Executive, which will retain overall policy responsibility for wider health and safety in Great Britain, including health and safety on nuclear sites, will have a trades union representative on its board. Thus the interests of employees will continue to be represented in the ONR’s wider work on health and safety on nuclear sites. In addition to this, Schedule 7 makes provision for the Health and Safety Executive to appoint one of its members to the ONR board, should it wish to do so, and for the arrangement to be reciprocal. This will also provide for employee interests to be represented on the ONR board. I hope that noble Lords find my explanation reassuring and I hope the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.
Energy: Electricity Supply
Debate between Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
No, my Lords, the path that the Government have taken is absolutely the right one. A number of plants are mothballed, but, as I said earlier, they can come on board if we require them. At this moment, we do not require them.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
Did I hear the noble Baroness aright, when she said that the spare capacity was 1,800 megawatts? If so, that represents only 4% of maximum demand. When I worked in the electricity supply industry, we believed that we could not run the system with less than 18% spare capacity. If we are down to 4%, we are in a very serious position.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I said that we already have 1,800 megawatts to draw on, but that Ofgem and National Grid are consulting on whether, in the short term, we need to procure more.