EU: Membership
Lord Stoddart of Swindon Excerpts(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Sassoon
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord and, as I have already explained, the huge benefit from our membership of the EU significantly outweighs the budgetary contribution that we make.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the Minister aware that we run a consistent trade deficit with the EU of about £40 billion a year? Could he say in relation to our net contribution, given the extra £450 million agreed by the Prime Minister at the recent quarterly meeting—or perhaps the £900 million which we will have to pay if the European Parliament has its way—how much we will then be paying?
Lord Sassoon
My Lords, in answer to the first part of the noble Lord’s question, 40 per cent of the UK’s trade goes to Europe, so it is a critical trading partner. On the potential increase of our budget contribution for next year, I should say that it was only thanks to the work of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister that the budget was put on to the agenda of the Council of Ministers and, thanks to the work he did with a number of other member states, the ridiculous proposal of a 6 per cent increase has been thrown out of court. The Council instead discussed the 2.9 per cent increase which we believed to be the absolute upper limit of what should be acceptable for next year.
EU: Economic Governance
Lord Stoddart of Swindon Excerpts(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Sassoon
My Lords, I sometimes struggle to speak for all the policy matters covered by Her Majesty’s Treasury, which are wide enough. I absolutely cannot speak for what the leaders of France and Germany are going to say when they come to the council tomorrow. I am sure that the Government will be prepared to answer any proposals that come forward. We will hear more about this after the meeting on Monday.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, would not any proposals coming from France, Germany or anywhere else for a treaty change require to be passed by unanimity? If so, can we have an assurance that the Government will not agree to any such change? If they do—to take up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Richard—can we have an absolute assurance that there will be a referendum?
Lord Sassoon
My Lords, I do not think that I can add anything to my earlier answers on this matter. I have tried to make the position as clear as possible. We will treat any proposed treaty changes on their merits and depending on whether they suggest any changes in competences between the UK and Brussels.
Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Bill [HL]
Lord Stoddart of Swindon Excerpts(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, at the Report stage of a Bill, the Minister is not here to be cross-examined in this way. My noble friend may make one contribution—he has made several—so he certainly ought not to make any more. We are dealing with the Report stage of the Bill and the Minister is replying to the debate.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, on this important amendment, we have heard from the Minister that because he is a layman, as I am, he is not able to answer the questions raised by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, in a manner that satisfies those of us who are laymen and thus enables us to vote intelligently if a vote is called.
Lord Sassoon
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham. I hope that the majority of us are clear about the intended scope of Clause 1, so I shall move on to deal with some of the other aspects. However, it is quite clear that the scope of Clause 1 is as intended and required by our obligations under UN Resolution 1373, which is the relevant resolution.
It is worth noting that while the majority of asset-freezing cases in the UK are against those who are charged or convicted of terrorist offences, at the moment there are six cases where it has been necessary, in order to protect the public from terrorism, to act upon the intelligence picture which, for reasons of national security or admissibility of evidence, cannot be used as the basis for criminal charges. However, that does not, of course, mean that those people do not continue to pose a serious risk to national security. Therefore, to limit final designations only to those subject to a criminal charge would exclude such groups and individuals as I have described. This would fatally undermine the preventive and disruptive nature of the asset-freezing regime as well as impact significantly on its operational effectiveness.
Nevertheless, the Government recognise that the Bill as it was introduced raised civil liberties concerns, and it was to address those that we amended the Bill so that a higher final designation threshold of reasonable belief, rather than the previous reasonable suspicion threshold, is being introduced. However, again I stress that there is a twin test, as the test of necessity for public protection also needs to be met. I do not think that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, drew attention to that.
The noble and learned Lord referred to a final order as giving an indefinite freeze. However, it is important to recognise that freezing orders have to be relooked at whenever the evidence changes or after 12 months. While “final order” is the term in the Bill, we should remember that a final order or a final designation will expire after 12 months unless it is renewed. We have also provided that the legal challenge to any designation should be by way of appeal. The Government continue to believe that the Bill strikes the right balance between safeguarding a person’s rights and protecting the public.
Amendments 9 and 11 require the Treasury to apply to the court to make an interim designation.
Comprehensive Spending Review
Lord Stoddart of Swindon Excerpts(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Noble Lords
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
Yes, he is; he is an independent Labour Cross-Bencher. The Government have ring-fenced health and overseas aid. Is there not another item that has been ring-fenced? It is our net contribution to the European Union, which is £6.7 billion this year. Would the Minister agree that if that were reduced by 20 per cent, it would enable 55,000 more nurses, policemen or teachers to be employed? Should our country not come first rather than subsidising other countries?
Lord Sassoon
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, for a question that reminds us that we are working extremely hard as a nation to live within our means. It is equally important that within Europe the European Union also lives within its means. The Government will be doing everything they can to make sure that proper financial discipline is applied to the European budget this year and for the next spending period. I do not know, but I have a sense—I might like to ask on the subject—that the Labour Members of the European Parliament were today voting to allow the European Union to have its own tax-raising powers to fund a separate pot of money. The present Government want to see proper discipline applied to European Union expenditure.