English Apprenticeships (Consequential Amendments to Primary Legislation) Order 2015

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Grand Committee

[Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, is of course second to none in his support for and encouragement of apprenticeships. Next week, we will come to a very substantial discussion of apprenticeships during our consideration in Committee of the Enterprise Bill, of which this order may be an hors d’oeuvre, and maybe not even that. All I would like to be certain of, and I am sure that my noble friend will be able to give me this assurance, is that what we are doing in this piece of legislation will not inhibit or restrict our debates on the clauses that relate to apprenticeships in the Enterprise Bill, which I suspect we will get to on either Monday or Wednesday of next week in Committee.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord who has just spoken paid tribute to my noble friend Lord Young’s continuing interest in and support for the apprenticeship movement. His words carry much weight in these areas. I have only four small questions for the noble Earl in what I take to be more of an amuse bouche than a first course, because we will be returning to these matters in the Enterprise Bill next Wednesday—if we make a little more progress than we did yesterday.

The first question is on almost the same point that has just been raised, which is that in this statutory instrument we are closer to finding an approved English apprenticeship only to see it removed and replaced by the statutory English apprenticeship in the Enterprise Bill, although obviously the dates will vary. When he comes to respond, perhaps the noble Earl could give us a sense of how this is going to segue from one to the other and what changes there will be in practice in terms of what the Bill says and what is currently meant by this statutory instrument. I suspect that that is a slightly longer piece than will be possible in this discussion, so I am happy for him to write to me.

My second point is that in paragraph 10 of the Explanatory Memorandum on the impact, the statement is made that:

“A separate full regulatory impact assessment has not been prepared for this consequential instrument because no impact on the private, public or voluntary sectors is foreseen separate to that already covered by the substantive provisions in the Act”.

That is fine, but unfortunately I am not very good at keeping my files and I could not find the impact assessment for the original Act, and clearly there is a hint here that there were some costs as a result of this change. Perhaps the noble Earl could dig it out—I see a little bit of panic behind him, so perhaps it will take a few days. However, if at some point I could have some indication of what the costs would be, I would be grateful for that.

My third question reinforces the point about quality that was made by my noble friend Lord Young. The Ofsted report on apprenticeships is extremely damning in many ways. It would be interesting to hear the reflections of the noble Earl on what lies behind the points made by my noble friend, which is that we can change the title all we want, but if we do not raise standards or change the nature of what is happening, we will be in trouble. I would like some assurances that the simple change in nomenclature, which is what appears to be happening here, is in fact covered by more action on the part of his department in terms of trying to ensure that standards in apprenticeship training rise and will indeed, it is hoped, eventually get to the point where we are talking about parity of esteem between the academic and the non-academic or vocational routes so that we can in truth have a fully integrated system of further education, complementing those who choose the academic route, but also open to those who wish to switch between the two strains.

The final point is my familiar trope on implementation dates. I appreciate that we are talking about a minor change that is consequent on a piece of legislation which is soon to be overtaken, but the Government have signed up to common commencement dates for the implementation of activities that will put a burden on business. This statutory instrument appears to come in 21 days after the order is made, which presumably will be tomorrow or the day after, and therefore will come in in late October, which is not one of the two commencement dates, which are, as I am sure the noble Earl will be aware, 1 October and 6 April. Why was this not brought forward only a matter of days to 1 October? Given its simplicity and apparently innocuousness in terms of changing things, why on earth did the department not get its act together for 1 October? Given that it is inconsequential and will shortly be overtaken by another Act, why did the noble Earl not wait until 6 April?

[The Earl of Courtown]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this short debate.

I should probably refer at first to the mention by the noble Lord, Lord Young, of the Ofsted report. This does apply, as the noble Lord is aware, to old frameworks. We are addressing these issues now as part of the reform programme in the Enterprise Bill, among other legislation. The Ofsted report criticises the quality of the existing provisions, and not those that have been designed and put in place by employers through our reforms. We are committed to creating the 3 million apprenticeships by the end of the Parliament, but this will not be at the expense of quality.

We are ensuring that each apprenticeship is a paid job with substantial and sustained on and off-the-job training, lasting a minimum of 12 months. As we have said before, we will legislate to provide protection for the term “apprenticeship”. Under the new trailblazers scheme, employers are designing new, high-quality apprenticeships that address the specific skills requirements of their sectors. We are putting purchasing power in the hands of businesses and allowing employers to choose from which provider they buy training.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned statutory apprenticeships. What he said is not the case. Statutory apprenticeships include the existing apprenticeship programmes, which are included in the standards and frameworks. The noble Lord also asked about costs. These are consequential amendments and so no costs are associated.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

My Lords, that is an immensely cheering thought, but it is not what I said. I said that the impact assessment has not been provided for this statutory instrument because it has been said that the calculations were done in respect of the original Bill. Since I have lost my impact statement for the original Bill, I would be grateful if the noble Earl could confirm what those costs were, so that I am reassured on that point.

[The Earl of Courtown]

If that is not available by the end of this debate, I will write to the noble Lord.

There was also concern over the quality of apprenticeships, raised by the noble Lord, Lord Young. We are improving quality. This is central to our reforms. Employers are developing new standards to ensure that apprenticeships meet the skills needed by their sectors. The published trailblazer quality statement sets out a range of measures to retain and improve quality, including the requirement for all apprenticeships to last at least 12 months. The new standards will replace existing complex frameworks, with short, simple, accessible standards written by employers in a language they understand. Quality and safety, the two underlying points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Young, must be at the front of these reforms.

My noble friend Lord Hodgson asked whether the order had any effect on the Enterprise Bill going through the House. It does not.

I welcome this debate on the issues that have been raised and I thank noble Lords for their contributions.

[The Earl of Courtown]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Young, for that point. Yes, this matter will be looked at very carefully before the next stage of the Enterprise Bill, and I shall discuss it with the Minister taking it through this House.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

I do not think that the Minister has responded to me about the commencement dates issue. If he cannot do so today, can he please confirm it in writing to me?

[The Earl of Courtown]

I shall write. I commend the order to the Committee.