Ukrainian Asylum Seekers and Refugees

Lord Soley Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

Again, that is an excellent question. We do not know the number of visas that are running out but I know that we have measures in place to make sure that when those visas—student visas, work visas and other types—run out they will be extended in this country and there will be no need for those people to return to Ukraine should they not want to do so.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

The Government are rightly focusing on Ukrainians, but can the Minister tell me whether the Government have any policy towards the several hundred thousand Russians who have fled Putin’s Russia and will be very important for a post-Putin Russia? They are scattered all over Europe and surrounding areas. What attention do the Government give to those people and the enormous asset they can be to the West generally in its battle against Putin?

Brexit: UK-EU Security (EUC Report)

Lord Soley Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by commending the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, for the quality of her chairmanship of this committee and for engaging fully with everyone. I also thank the staff of the committee, who also did an extremely good job. I want to say at the beginning that I welcome the very recent change in the language of the Government, particularly in Malta. For the first time, I heard members of the Government say rather more forcefully than they had in the past that we must have a very close, positive relationship with Europe.

My view is that the referendum has happened and there is no going back on it in the foreseeable future. Therefore, we have to make it work for both the United Kingdom and the European Union. Failure to do so will have severe consequences for everyone. The noble Lord, Lord Wasserman, who has a lot of experience of this from his work in the Home Office, knows that many of the things that will happen as a result of Brexit will not be fully understood by the British public because the information was not put before them. I understand that, but I agree with him that the outcome would not have been different had it been put before them. He pointed out that people might have thought differently had they known the implications for the security side of things, but I remind him that if politics were rational, frankly, we would not need politicians. That ought to be an exam question for anyone who is thinking of doing politics.

We now have a report that gives the Government a way forward. Security and policing is one of the top four objectives for the Government, as has already been said. In my contribution I will focus mainly on what I see as the most important part of the report. Paragraph 37 talks about the problem of linking up with the security and policing work in Europe. It ends by stating:

“This may mean trying to remain part of certain channels and structures, or finding adequate substitutes”.


For me, that is very important, and it ought to be one of the negotiating aims of the Government. For all the reasons given by the noble Lord, Lord Wasserman, the security of the people of the United Kingdom and the European Union will be at risk if the co-operative organisations and structures that we have now cease to work, and we will all be in greater danger than we would have been otherwise. That is why this is so important. It is worth saying that there are a number of ways of achieving this. I take the view that it is perfectly possible to work these matters out and come up with acceptable solutions that work. But it is not going to be easy and I rather doubt that it will be quick.

In areas where we have to trade across borders—aerospace, cars and agriculture are good examples—there must be some sort of agreement on regulations. One advantage in those areas is the recent idea of equivalence; even if you do not follow the regulations precisely, you can have equivalence. The European Union could look at Britain’s arrangements on any of these matters and decide that because they are equivalent to the EU regulations, it can co-operate—and vice versa. The important difference with security is that although we can have equivalence in certain areas, there is the problem that this is about people’s liberty, about policing mechanisms and about the power of the security services. That means that the law is involved, and so everything has to be underpinned by the rule of law. That adds an important different dimension.

In my view, the primary aim of the Government should be the creation of new mechanisms for very close co-operation. Indeed, I have said elsewhere that I think we have to have a special relationship with the European Union and that we ought to start talking about it in that way. I visited Brussels in the middle of the inquiry and it struck me how many people were sad that we were leaving, but also how many people were angry. I understand that anger. Continental Europeans have always seen this as a political project. The British people have never seen it quite like that. We have seen it as an economic project. I have made the point before that for continental Europeans this is a superstate while for the British it is a supermarket.

We are now going down the road of what the Europeans rightly call cherry picking: we have picked this and that, and said we will take part in this but not that. I am reminded of the depth of the history of British culture in relation to Europe. It is very much a reflection of Lord Palmerston’s famous statement, made in the middle of the 19th century. To paraphrase, he said that Britain had no permanent friends or enemies, only our own interests to pursue and that it was our duty to pursue them. In a way, that is why we have ended up going from being the most popular country in Europe, post 1945, to being probably the least popular. We are now seen as the bad boy of the class.

A number of the existing arrangements mean that the police and the security services can talk and act directly together. That is the message that came through from the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, and the noble Lord, Lord Wasserman. Outside the European Union, that will not be the same. We will no longer have a seat at the top table, so we will not be discussing what the rules should be on all of these areas for policing and security. Yet, as indicated, they are vital, so we have to work out how we do that. On leaving the European Union we become a third country, which produces a position where there might be arrangements by international treaty, cross-border agreement, with individual countries or with the European Union. I do not need to spell that out in any more detail for noble Lords to realise the complexity. As I have said already, equivalence is one way forward on some of these matters, but it is not the complete answer.

I will give an example. The United Kingdom could apply to the European Union for adequacy status on data protection, because data protection affects all our privacy. It often seems a rather dry topic, but if people are worried about privacy in their own lives, in business or other areas they need to worry about data protection. The EU could then decide if data protection in the United Kingdom was of an equivalent or adequate status in relation to that practised within the European Union. If it were, we could have an agreement that the exchange of data could take place. There would be safety in doing so. But there is a caveat because, although that could work, and it is one thing that the Government ought to be looking at in negotiations, I am not a lawyer but it occurs to me that if somebody felt that it was not appropriate in their particular case, they could challenge it in law. So again I emphasise the seriousness. But other countries have come up with adequacy arrangements with the European Union, so that could work.

When I visited the European Parliament during the course of this inquiry, I had some useful discussions with Members of the European Parliament, as well was the chairman and members of the various security committees from all of the other 27 countries who were present at the meeting. One thing that we were all concerned about was Europol and the whole issue of parliamentary scrutiny of the legislation passed. The European Parliament is now in the process of setting up what is in effect a rather large—and I suspect rather too cumbersome in the long run—Select Committee process for looking at the way that policing and security is done. We need to be linked into that. We cannot be members because we will be out of the EU, but we need to be closely involved in some way.

Our contribution in Brussels is remarkable. The chairman is Claude Moraes, whom I know well. He is a British Member of the European Parliament. Sir Julian King, the EU Commissioner for the Security Union, gave evidence to our committee and is also exceptionally highly regarded. Rob Wainwright is the director of Europol. He is a British police officer, again with a high reputation in Europe. All of these people are doing exceptionally good jobs. All of them will cease to be members when we leave the European Union.

There was a recent report of an extraordinary meeting of the conference of committee chairs with Mr Verhofstadt, a former prime minister of Belgium who is now the European Parliament’s co-ordinator on Brexit. The notes of the meeting state:

“Linked to this is the question of the use of the European Arrest Warrant. UK has always been critical about the EAW. Entering an alert for arrest … is equivalent to a provisional request for extradition … It will have to be discussed whether UK will want to continue”,


with the EAW. If we do, what do we do about the oversight of the European Court of Justice, because UK officials have pointed out that the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice is a red line and that we will not accept that court’s jurisdiction? So there is a complex area between the use of the European arrest warrant and how we resolve that problem without also putting ourselves in the situation of being outside the remit of the European Court of Justice—which I assume we will do, because it is a red line for the Government. So what other safeguards will we have? It is a complex area and that report is important.

There will be a limit to how closely we can co-operate if we do not recognise the European Court of Justice. We need to recognise that there will be some international treaties between the UK and the EU. There will have to be some structures, agreements and adequacy points, which I have already mentioned, that allow us to continue with the co-operation. In some ways we will have to rely on precedence for having access to some of these policing and security practices. Other countries have done that with bilateral agreements. The United States has a bilateral agreement on passenger name records because it regarded that as particularly important after 9/11. Norway and Iceland have an agreement on the European arrest warrant. But again, if we look at that closely, there are problems with it, so replicating it is probably not the best answer.

I will conclude where I began—by saying that the onus is now on the Government to negotiate new forms and new ways of making sure that co-operation between the EU and the UK continues. It is of such importance. It is not just a conventional thing in many people’s minds—arresting someone in Belgium or Germany or vice versa in Britain and sending them over. There is also the whole question of terrorism and, as the noble Lord, Lord Wasserman said, we cannot solve that problem on a single-nation basis; we have to have close co-operation. That means exchanging vital information that will often be of a security nature.

In those circumstances, one thing that the Government will have to look at in their negotiating procedure is the legal safeguards. What legal challenges can they expect from people caught in that system who decide that the Government of the United Kingdom or the European Union do not have the legal power to do what they are doing and then challenge it in the courts? This is where the negotiations are critical. We will not see how they pan out for a few years yet, but they are really extremely important.

EU: Unaccompanied Migrant Children (EUC Report)

Lord Soley Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

It was a privilege to serve on the committee under the chairmanship of the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, who chaired with her usual skill and determination, and to have able staff to help us throughout that process.

There is no doubt—it has already come out in the debate—that neither the United Kingdom nor the European Union emerge with any credit from what has been happening in the world. As a former MP for a west London constituency that took refugees from all over the world, I know and fully understand both the problems of doing that and the fear of a host community that is experiencing a degree of population movement that the world has never before experienced. However, I also believe that there is, as has been said, a willingness on the part of the British people to help. If we look back on this time in a few years, all of us will be ashamed of the role played by the United Kingdom and the European Union. I often think that if there is a Charles Dickens out there writing a novel like Oliver Twist, they will be doing it on this issue. Those who have been involved in trying to delay, slow down or make difficult taking children into care in the way we are describing here might feature rather badly in such a novel.

I say very strongly to the Minister that the Government need to look at how the Home Office responds to such reports. As the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, said, she got the response an hour before this debate. I went out to the office just now and it is not there, so we do not know what the Government’s response is. Therefore I can talk about our recommendations but I cannot talk about what the Government will do in response to them. Equally, in the course of other matters that the committee deals with, there have been delays by the Home Office on a number of important issues. It needs to get its act together. I know that the Home Office is a difficult department to manage in all its complexity, but a major department of state, complicated as it is, has to get its act together and do better than it is now. Not to have a response to this report that we can debate now is a disgrace. I hope the Minister will take that back clearly.

A number of things in the report could and should be done, and I hope I will eventually be able to read a response and understand what the Government intend to do. However, I will start with a point raised by a number of Members, most notably in the excellent speech by my noble friend Lord Dubs, about the media response to this. If you read about the disbelief shown towards the children’s ages, it brings home to you what those children, and indeed other, older family members, have experienced. As a number of people have said, it is hard to judge a child’s age when they come from a society in which nutrition has not been up to normal standards, reliable dates of birth are not kept, there is intense violence and the child has suffered considerably. I invite a couple of those editors who have been writing stories that stir up hatred and disbelief—I will start with Hugh Whittow, the editor of the Daily Express, and Paul Dacre, my old opponent at the Daily Mail—to give up a week of their holiday and work in one of the places where there are child refugees. To make their nightmare doubly worse—I think they will regard it as a nightmare—I will come with them to work in that area. I do not think they will enjoy the experience but they may learn a degree of humility, care and concern.

On the age factor, I recognise the problem and recognised it years ago as a Member of Parliament, when we had to deal with these issues. First, however, there is an understanding that this is such a difficult problem that you would rather make mistakes on the side of generosity than on the other side of the argument. Secondly, bear in mind, as has already been touched on, that when children leave those situations, they are not just desperate in the sense of fearing for their lives but, as my noble friend Lord Dubs pointed out, afraid of being recognised because their families will be punished. Afghanistan is a good example. If you are in a Taliban area, the Taliban will not only punish your family but force boys to join it. This is why quite a lot of boys come from Afghanistan. Are we really saying we would rather they stayed there to be trained by the Taliban to make bombs and kill people? Is that what we are saying? Therefore, when Mr Hugh Whittow and Paul Dacre come with me, we will have that experience together and they will learn, as I learned over many years, about the complexity of this area. If they do not, they might feature in the novel by the new Charles Dickens, who I hope emerges from this terrible time.

I will make a couple of points on the recommendations. The culture of disbelief of age is important. I would not be against having what are sometimes referred to as invasive tests of age, such as on teeth, and so on. But—this is important—very few of them are accurate. The committee was told by the dental professionals that if you judge a child’s age by the development of its teeth, you can judge it accurately to within only about five years. There are other medical checks, which again, I would not object to in principle, but they are not that accurate. They may be one of the factors you want to use to assess age. However, what will you do with a child from Afghanistan who may turn out to be 19 or 20, who fled from the Taliban because they did not want to be trained to kill? Will we say to them, “You’ve got to go back to that situation”? Therefore, the situation is far more complex than editors of the Hugh Whittow and Paul Dacre type understand. I am offering them an adult learning course in an interesting situation. I hope they will respond to it, but I rather doubt they will.

The next thing I want to say to the Minister, which again is important, is that one of the messages we have to get across is that as soon as a child appears in a European Union country, including in the UK, we must register them. Europol was clear in the evidence it gave to us that a number of children—I think 10,000 was the last figure I heard—just disappear, and we then have no way of checking because we have no record of them. Therefore, recording this is particularly important. As the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, pointed out, we have a legal obligation, which we passed in this country and which has been passed in all other European Union countries, to put the best interests of the child first. If you do that, you do not leave them in camps in Calais or anywhere else. That reflects on all European Union countries, including our own. The best interests of the child need to be put first. The other recommendation, which I think is number 16 on the list of recommendations at the end of the report, is the need for minimum standards in Europe on the definition of,

“the best interests of the child”.

In other words, when we decide that a child is in the care of one of the European Union countries, we should have a minimum standard by which to judge that care.

The other recommendation I will mention is that for single authority to look after migrant children. At the moment in the UK, the responsibility for services and so on is split between the Home Office and the Department for Education. I understand that, but as the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, indicated, a guardian or someone to take the overall needs of the child into account is particularly important, whether that guardian is wholly independent or an institutional organisation. I do not rule that out automatically—I am slightly at variance with the report there—but as soon as you have vulnerable children divided between several organisations or individuals, there is a danger that they will fall through the net, and we need to address that. Perhaps the Minister might take that away and give thought to it.

This report is very important. This situation will be a terrible reflection on this country and on the European Union in years to come. People will look back at those photographs of the children drowned in the Mediterranean or those in the camps in Calais and say, “What was wrong with our society at that time?”. We need to rethink this.

EU Action Plan Against Migrant Smuggling (EUC Report)

Lord Soley Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by congratulating the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, on the way in which she chaired our committee—not only her efficiency but the obvious compassion that she felt on the subject that we were dealing with. It is very important in debates such as this to remember the very real people who have been referred to in this debate, whom we have seen on our television sets and in newspapers.

I will also mention in passing that the reports that we are debating today are a good example of how much impact we can have on the European Union. In fact, it has already picked up on some of the suggestions that we have made. One thing that I heard from evidence given at the time was that our reports are well received in the European Union. It is a simple message: if we are in the European Union, we can, if we want, lead. If we just sit on the fence, we cannot lead. That is perhaps the most important message underlying the political discussions on the European Union at the moment.

On the issue of migrant smuggling, it is a very depressing picture. One recommendation that we made, recommendation 79, is about trying to get the language right and co-ordinating this with other international bodies and organisations. Migrant smuggling is a title that is not strictly accurate. This is also a refugee crisis, and it is very important to say that. Obviously, a lot of the people are migrants for economic reasons, given some of the countries that they are coming from. But it is equally obvious that a vast number, particularly in relation to Syria, are refugees. Within that, you have other groups that are very difficult to recognise as having separate needs, most obviously the trafficked people, particularly women, trafficked for sexual purposes, or children, for both sexual purposes and others. Trafficked migrants or refugees—whatever label you wish to put on them—require another way of dealing with people. That is why we rely so much on the various agencies, both public and private, which are trying to help people in these conditions.

There is a much wider debate here, which people have been touching on, about how we deal with the crisis around the world in migration and refugees. A country such as Jordan is dealing with it incredibly well, but one reason why it can deal with the problem better than others can, and with much larger numbers than we have dreamed of—in the millions, or certainly much more than a million—is that the country has a good, stable Government with the rule of law. It is not as perfect as one would like—it never will be—but it is a lot better than others. If we are going to talk about aid in this respect, one thing that I was told many years ago is that, frankly, any help that we can give to achieve the rule of law and stable government is more important than almost anything else. If we can get that, a lot of these troubles will go away.

Underneath that issue, there is the problem of the United Nations Security Council. If it was operating as it should have done, and was not so divided, frankly, we would have put up holding centres in Libya. There is no reason why you could not cater for very large numbers of refugees in that area, preventing the abuses that are already happening to refugees. But you have to have boots on the ground. Ideally, they would be United Nations ones with a camp—but we are nowhere near that at the moment, so we have to pick up the pieces by having Royal Navy, Italian navy and French navy ships in the Mediterranean, trying to stop people crossing.

The other problem, which the report addresses, is with the criminal activity of smuggling. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a large number of gangs and individuals go in for criminal smuggling to make large amounts of money out of it, but I am also aware that a lot of the smuggling is done by small people with boats who are making them available for a sum of money. I often wonder what would happen in a court case if you tried to charge one of them with smuggling and they said, “Yes, I felt sorry for them—I took them across but I charged them some money”. I am not sure whether that would count as smuggling or as assistance. None of that solves the problem. We have to have some sort of external force on the European borders; we have to face up to that.

One of the most impressive bits of evidence given, written and verbal, was by Rob Wainwright, the director of Europol. Again, Europol, and his particular role in it, is highly regarded among the other EU states. He was saying that unless we get better co-operation between the various forces there, we cannot have a common approach to what are in effect the borders of Europe. I think that such an approach is emerging—and the sooner it does, frankly, the better.

The other thing that comes out as very important in what Rob Wainwright is doing is intelligence gathering. It is no good just trying to stop ships in the water; you also need intelligence about what is happening on the ground in areas such as Libya and who is organising this—when we are dealing with criminal charges—so we can try to stop them. I noticed that a man was arrested a few days ago in Italy, with co-operation between the British and Italian police. Whether that will lead to a conviction I know not, but it is an indication that that sort of work is going ahead.

My final point is that if we are to have at least a temporary solution on this, we also have to be clear about our returns policy. I think it is pretty clear to most people that we cannot return someone to Syria, but it is different when it comes to Nigeria, which is a very large country. There is one problem area in it where, if you were returned to it, your life expectancy would be short or grim, but large parts of Nigeria are stable. We need the co-operation of the Nigerian Government to ensure that if we return a person there, we do not return them to an area controlled by Boko Haram. There are similar examples that I would give but time is against me. I will say simply that there is a whole package of measures here.

When historians look back on this, I do not think that the European Union, our Government or the rest of the world will come out of it very well. But I acknowledge, as I think we all must, that it is an incredibly difficult problem for which there are no quick fixes. We have to start building up these procedures and improving them, and I hope that our report, along with those that we have heard about today and the others that I know are in the making, will have some impact on that—but it is a slow and painful process.

Police: Armed Officers

Lord Soley Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Police equipment and firearms selection is a matter for the chief officers of the various regions, but they have access to expert advice from the Home Office Centre for Applied Science and Technology. In the light of that advice, they determine and assess the weapons that they require.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

With respect, that answer is inadequate. In the recent attacks in Paris, rapid-fire assault rifles were used. Many of the arms with which our police officers are currently equipped would leave them highly vulnerable in such a situation. The House needs a bit more information about how we assess the needs of armed police officers in the face of an attack such as took place in Paris.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

In light of the incident in Paris, the Government have undertaken to provide an additional £143 million over the course of the spending review to provide an uplift in armed policing capability. That will include armed response vehicles and 1,000 additional armed police. To deal with the risk of a marauding firearms terrorist attack, as it is sometimes termed, we have developed a police-led capability that involves the option of large-scale military assistance. Clearly, I will not address details of operational capacity.

Airports: Heathrow Third Runway

Lord Soley Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Of course, my noble friend has expertise on this; we heard about one-way flights, but as one can see there was certainly a two-way flight when my noble friend was an airline pilot, because he has returned and contributed again today. He makes an important point: ICAO is an important part of ensuring the international development of aviation and dealing with our current security issues.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

Can the Minister confirm that, in or out of the EU, we will need a hub airport fit for purpose? Can he tell us how soon after 23 June he will make that decision?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

To answer the noble Lord’s first question: yes, I agree with him. As I have said before from this Dispatch Box, the referendum will take place on 23 June, and we will conclude further work on the airports decision by the summer.

Migration: Middle East and North Africa

Lord Soley Excerpts

Thursday 12th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

It is recognised that our good will is boundless but our resources are finite.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

I am grateful for the Minister’s recognition that this is a complex area, but the British people might be more convinced if the Government were better at dealing with unaccompanied child refugees. The European Union and the UK do not give priority to the needs of the child, which in Britain you are required to do by law. If the Government were better at that, the overall message might get over rather better.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The Government have been excellent at dealing with the question of unaccompanied children applying for asylum. Let me put it in context for a moment. In 2015, there were just over 3,000 applications from unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. More than 35% of the applications came from Albanians and Afghans; about 6% came from Syrians.

Airports: London

Lord Soley Excerpts

Monday 18th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is right to point out that one of the findings of the Davies commission was the importance of full community engagement, and that remains part and parcel of government thinking and is very much in the mix. However, the final call on that can be made only once we make the final call on the location of expansion in the south-east.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

I offer the Minister my belated congratulations on his birthday on 3 April and remind him that in the year he was born, I first expressed concern about the future of Heathrow unless we kept up with the management of airports in other countries. Will he do all he can to make sure that he gets the announcement made before the Summer Recess? If this goes on for as long as he has been alive, he will be 96 and I will be 125 when the decision is made.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure that all noble Lords will wish us both a long, healthy and happy life. The noble Lord is quite right—the Government have made their position clear; the decision is important. [Laughter.] Noble Lords may laugh, but the Government have made clear the principle that there is a need for expansion in the south-east, and we are progressing on that basis.

Airports: Expansion

Lord Soley Excerpts

Thursday 10th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is quite right to mention the incredible amount of work that the Davies commission has done, which the Government have acknowledged; I have done so several times from the Dispatch Box. Of course—I say this just for clarification on the issue—we will be moving forward in summer 2016. The noble Baroness raised a point about the policy statement. Once the decision is made, there will be a consultation around the policy statement, as I am sure she is aware, and once a development order is laid there are quite specific timelines that will be followed in line with the Planning Act 2008.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware that the runway would be built by now if the Government had accepted the recommendation of the last Labour Government? Is he also aware that if you go to any aviation conference in this country or overseas there is utter amazement that we cannot make a decision on such a key infrastructure project?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It was really for the Labour Government to act on the Labour Government’s own policy. The Conservative Government are very clear. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister, David Cameron, launched the Davies commission. It has reported. We have accepted the principles behind the report. We have accepted the work done behind the report. The noble Lord mentioned conferences around the world. In my capacity as Minister for Aviation Security, I attend such conferences, and I find utmost respect for British aviation and the Government’s considered position on this issue.

Foreign Workers: Engineers

Lord Soley Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Soley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the ability of British manufacturers to recruit engineers from overseas who are suitably qualified.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, where no suitable resident worker is available companies may recruit non-EEA engineers to graduate-level roles using the tier 2 skilled work route. Where there is a shortage of applicants, engineering roles are prioritised under the tier 2 limit and employers are not required to advertise the positions before recruiting non-EEA nationals.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

Will the Minister agree to review the way tier 2 is working? It is seriously bad news for small—particularly high-tech—companies which want to recruit overseas but cannot build up a base of experience and have no knowledge of why they get refused. They then have to apply again and often lose the person they need. It is doing a lot of damage to us overseas. If the Minister will not agree to review it, will he at least be prepared to see some representatives of that industry who I could happily bring to see him to explain why they find it damaging to both productivity and British reputation overseas?

[Lord Bates]

The tier 2 limit is kept under review by the Migration Advisory Committee, which is an independent committee. It produced a report on tier 2, making a number of recommendations that we are still considering. The key point is that we want to build a more sustainable workforce where the skills needed by engineers—in technology and those areas—are in the resident labour market and do not require people to recruit employees from outside the EEA area.