Aviation: Cost of Travel

Lord Soley Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

We have one of the most liberal aviation markets in Europe and, indeed, in the world. It is the case that, at peak times, including travelling to Scotland in the evening, flights may well be very expensive, but people who can be flexible with their time will be able to find cheaper alternatives.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

I put it to the Minister that, if she wants to preserve the union of these islands, we need to remember that there are more islands than just Northern Ireland. The Scottish National Party makes great play of the fact that it subsidises visits to Shetland, but of course you cannot do that if you are English, and there is no subsidy if you go to the Scilly Isles. It is time that we started looking at a fare subsidy system throughout the UK, if we want to hold this union together.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

It is the case that there are 17 PSOs in Scotland, and an agreement was reached between the Scottish Government and the UK Government that they would be administrated and paid for by the Scottish Government. Again, the Government are open to any local authority able to set out a business case for a PSO. We will look at that on a strategic and economic basis, and, if it makes sense and stacks up, we would be able to support it.

Airports National Policy Statement

Lord Soley Excerpts

Wednesday 6th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank my noble friend for his support on this decision. As he said, he is a predecessor of mine, and I am sure that he was discussing it then, so it is great to take this step of laying the final national policy statement. We need to act now. Our latest analysis shows that all five London airports will be full by the mid-2030s, and we are losing ground to our competitor hubs in Europe and the Middle East.

The night flight ban will be at least a six and a half hour ban on all scheduled flights. It could be more than that, with predictable respite. Once designated, that will go to further consultation with local communities to agree the exact detail.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My 20-year campaign to expand Heathrow covered the period when I was a Member of Parliament for two west London constituencies. Of course, some people are vocally against it. I have to say that they are frequently the people who fly more often, which came out in a number of constituency meetings that I did in the area. An awful lot of people who do not speak out clearly are desperately in favour because of high-quality jobs. When I spoke in schools in the area, teachers were often against it, for understandable reasons—because of the noise—but when you asked the children how many of them had family or friends who worked at the airport or in an airport-associated job, nearly all of them did. Please ensure that we take account of the needs of those local people, too.

The regions are incredibly important. We cannot expect the regions of England to do well unless they are linked into the hub airport. If all the other countries have hub airports and are developing them, there is a common-sense question: why is that? The common-sense answer is because you need interchange—interchange for Scotland, Wales, and the south-west of England, which is often underestimated. They need links too. Please will the Minister pursue this and take into account the crucial importance of jobs in south-west London and related areas?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank the noble Lord for his supportive comments. This expansion will absolutely deliver jobs for the local area: I think that the latest figure is 114,000 and 5,000 apprenticeships, which will obviously be welcome for young people. We have not underestimated the potential impact of this decision on local communities, or the importance of listening to them and doing it in the right way. I personally met some of the local groups which have been campaigning hard on this issue and saw at first-hand their strength of feeling. The NPS commits up to £2.6 billion towards compensation, noise insulation and improvements to public communities but, as the noble Lord said, expansion has support from local communities as well as opposition.

Airport Capacity

Lord Soley Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I accept her proposition, however, that the judgment is often made by those who live under flight paths and have aircraft flying over them. The noble Baroness talked of her own experience. I assure her that I too have experience of planes flying over my own residence. I underline that the Government have outlined the importance they are attaching to the issues of noise and noise pollution. I also mentioned that we will consult on proposals on the noise commissioner and noise commission. That will be part and parcel of the consultation process. There are other measures such as setting up the local neighbourhood engagement board, which the commission detailed. That will also be part and parcel of the NPS and will be factored in as it makes its progress through the House of Commons.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

I commend this Statement because it is an important step in the right direction, but we are not there yet. I have been in similar situations over the last 20 years on this issue. Can the Minister make sure that he brings on board everyone in the regions—particularly the airports that are desperate to expand their economic activity—in support of this proposal? This is not, as the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, something for the south-east. This is for the country. I say that as someone who has lived under the flight paths for 40-odd years, and represented constituencies under them for a quarter of a century. The loudest voices are not necessarily the most representative. There are many, many people in those areas who know how important this is for jobs and prosperity.

There comes a point in time—which, frankly, we have passed—when you have to put national need above local issues. I found in my many years as an MP that I could carry people with me on this when I explained its importance. Many young people at the jobcentres in west London know the importance of that skilled employment at Heathrow. Let us get on with this and make a plea to those who are opposed to it to look at the depth and quality of the evidence in favour—from business and from all the trade unions bar one—and say that this project needs to go ahead, particularly in the light of Brexit, and in the light of the needs of the British economy.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with much of what the noble Lord has said. He has been a strong advocate for this and, based on his own experiences, shares my sense, as Aviation Minister, of the importance of getting this done. One assurance I can give the House is that by the time the runway is built in 2030 and fully operational, I may no longer be the Aviation Minister—I will hazard that guess, but time will tell. He raises two very important points about getting everyone on board and ensuring that we build this extra capacity, which is not only of benefit to the surrounding area in terms of local employment—more than 77,000 jobs will be created from it, and businesses will benefit. The noble Lord is also right to point out the support from the business community and the unions. He mentioned the airports, many of which across the UK have not just acknowledged but welcomed the fact that the decision has been made. In answer to his question about bringing them around the table, over the last couple of weeks I have had various engagements with different people involved with the aviation industry, which included a very practical working lunch—I assure noble Lords that I had only the starter—with the Airport Operators Association, to ensure that the decision that we have taken today is of benefit to airports, the regions and the whole country.

Airports: London

Lord Soley Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I thank my noble friend for his kind remarks. He served in a very distinguished capacity as Aviation Minister, but he is also quite right to mention aviation capacity in the south-east. As I have said previously from this Dispatch Box, the Davies commission carried out quite comprehensive work in this regard. Three options were presented to the Government, which remain on the table.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

In this post-Brexit world, will the Minister use his enhanced position, which is well deserved—he has been a good supporter of the expansion issue—to make sure his Cabinet colleagues, and the Prime Minister, who is chairing the relevant committee, understand that it is critical that Heathrow can deliver the services the rest of the world will expect if we are to be part of that market? To follow the comment made by the noble Lord, Lord Spicer, they need to recognise that we need a better way to deal with airport expansion in this country. Expansion of airports is critical to both regional and national economies.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right in that over the summer there have been a few changes in the Government and in the position of the United Kingdom. A new Government, Prime Minister and Secretary of State are in place, but I assure the noble Lord—indeed, all noble Lords—that the Government are giving this decision a high priority. It is paramount in our mind. The other element to bear in mind is that it will be in line with the Davies commission to ensure that we have this extra capacity operational by 2030.

Airports: London

Lord Soley Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I think that under all circumstances it is important to look at the potential for regional airports, Birmingham being one. There are numerous others across the country with ambitions.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that her position has moved significantly? I welcome that, but does she appreciate the importance of airports to Britain’s success in global markets? If she does, can she please accept that we ought to give at least as much attention to airports throughout the UK as we do to the rest of the transport infrastructure, most notably rail and road? We have to put airports up there or we will not succeed.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, working from my transport brief, we look frequently at connectivity for airports and recognise that all transport has an important role to play in economic growth.

Airports: London

Lord Soley Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we welcome the report of the Transport Select Committee but do not necessarily agree with all its conclusions. It is important that we have a solution that will withstand a change of government. The Crossrail and HS2 projects can withstand a change of government. We need a policy for Heathrow and the London hub that can also withstand a change of government.

[Lord Soley]

The noble Earl wants a thorough inquiry, but we have been having thorough inquiries since the Maplin inquiry, which was about 50 years ago, so it would be quite nice if we could finish this. Had the Government taken on board the last Government’s position, we would be there now, which would be helpful. I put it to the Minister that there is a danger of an unconsidered policy developing on this, since we now have six London airports with seven runways—or seven airports, if you include the newly renamed London Oxford Airport. I do not know how far this is going to go on until we actually get a proper policy.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord knows very well that the issue is not about point-to-point capacity with the various London airports; it is about hub capacity.

Energy: Biofuels

Lord Soley Excerpts

Wednesday 27th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I do not have the figures to hand but I can write to my noble friend with any details that I have—and I am sure that I have some. The current trading period will end shortly and the figures will then be analysed. When we have those figures, we will have a better understanding of how the UK biofuels market works. However, we have to wait until the end of the trading period.

[Lord Soley]

One thing troubles me. The Minister will know—this refers back to his first Answer—that not all biofuels require extensive land use, algae being an obvious example. However, there are also land-use biofuels, such as in the desert and less arable areas which are wide open for development. Frankly, the British biofuels industry would like to be at the forefront of that, and I wonder whether we should be doing much more about it. Does he agree?

[Earl Attlee]

I agree with much of what the noble Lord says. There are what are termed “advanced biofuels”, which do not have a land-take impact—certainly not in terms of taking land out of agricultural use or requiring a reduction in rainforest. Moreover, they do not have an impact on food production. Consideration is being given to greater incentives for the production of advanced biofuels.

Airports: Heathrow

Lord Soley Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I certainly agree that Heathrow is to all intents and purposes full up. The answer to the noble Lord’s question about the third runway is a matter for the Airports Commission. Coalition policy is currently that there will be no third runway at Heathrow or any of the other London airports.

[Lord Soley]

The Minister’s comments were rather good and quite encouraging. However, whatever Sir Howard Davies is likely to recommend, it is unlikely to be an alternative hub airport somewhere else in the near future—at least in the next 15 or 20 years. Therefore, would it not be wise to allow Heathrow fully to prepare for the likely decision to go ahead with a third runway, even if only in the short term, because otherwise we will be shutting ourselves out of the global economy? Will the Minister take that back to his department? People are increasingly turning to Frankfurt and Amsterdam, particularly international investors. We really do have to take it more seriously.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I know that the noble Lord has strong feelings on this matter, but I am afraid that he should take no encouragement from what I have just said at all. We will have to wait until the Airports Commission reports. However, Heathrow is well connected at the moment, and compares very well with our European partners.

Railways: High Speed Rail

Lord Soley Excerpts

Monday 28th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, first, my noble friend touched on the needs of freight. He is absolutely right, because one problem that we face if we do nothing is running out of capacity on the west coast main line for both passengers and freight. So it is a major driver that we absolutely have to do this project to provide sufficient capacity for freight, because there simply are not the train paths for people to put on the services that they would like to run.

I am looking forward to answering an Oral Question on Thursday regarding railway fares, and my noble friend has been asking me numerous Written Questions about how the fares basket is calculated. One question that it is important to answer is: will it be more expensive to travel by HS2? The issue of fares will be considered in more detail as the project develops. However, our assumptions on the viability of HS2 and the expected fares income do not factor in or depend on a premium for high-speed services.

[Lord Soley]

Will the Minister assure me that, as in all other European countries, the Government recognise that our future hub airport, wherever it is located, must be linked to a high-speed railway line? Do the Government understand that?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the most cautious approach for me would be to rely on the Airports Commission, but I am sure that it will take that very much into consideration. In the noble Lord’s submission to the Airports Commission, no doubt he will have mentioned that very point.

Airports: Capacity

Lord Soley Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am confident that the Airports Commission, headed up by Sir Howard, will consider all relevant matters.

[Lord Soley]

The Minister will know my opinion on this but I put it to him very strongly that just about everyone in business has been saying that delaying this infrastructure project is crucially bad for the British economy. It is the delay that is causing the problem. If the Government picked up the previous Government’s policy and continued with it we would not be in this situation now. That would not cost a single penny of public money. Please, please move on this for the sake of the British economy, investment and jobs.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it is important for businesses to put their own submissions in to the Airports Commission, as I think the noble Lord has already done himself.