Daniel Morgan Independent Panel Report

Debate between Lord Smith of Finsbury and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 24th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Smith of Finsbury (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, Alastair Morgan, the indefatigable brother of Daniel Morgan, was my constituent for 22 years when I was a Member of Parliament. I fought for many years, through a succession of Commissioners of the Metropolitan Police, to try to secure justice for Daniel Morgan’s family. Sadly, that has not been achieved, even now. The independent report last year and this report from the inspectorate make a series of useful and important recommendations; there will be lessons to be learned. However, I am worried that the Statement says:

“The Metropolitan police remains an exemplar in investigating serious corruption”.—[Official Report, Commons, 23/3/22; col. 374.]


This was not the case for Daniel Morgan, and it seems to me that there is a whiff of complacency about a statement of that kind. Through it all, I am distressed that justice has not been achieved for Daniel Morgan’s family. Will it ever be achieved?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I think my right honourable friend the Policing Minister asked that question yesterday. It is a very sad question to have to ask, 35 years on. In terms of the MPS being an exemplar in investigating serious corruption, this is talking about corruption within the police. Obviously the two are different things, but I hope, as my right honourable friend the Policing Minister said yesterday, that we will get closure for his family, because it must have been an agony for the last 35 years. I commend the noble Lord for the work that he has done on this.

LGBT Action Plan

Debate between Lord Smith of Finsbury and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Baroness for those questions and I was pleased to see her at the launch event this morning. She is absolutely right that out of this huge survey—the biggest in the world ever, I believe—there is loads to be gleaned through the analysis we can do, and I think that we have probably only just begun that process. But it must not be just a survey that is done and put on a shelf, and I am absolutely certain that it will not be. I am sure there are stakeholders all over the world who will be interested in our survey findings.

On the national adviser who will oversee the change in the NHS, I suspect—though those proposals have probably not yet been worked through definitively—it will be somebody who can see at a strategic level just where those gaps lie, given some of the feedback they will get from LGBT patients and users of the health service. I do not necessarily think a clinician will be needed, but someone who can take a strategic look at how the NHS operates and propose changes and provide advice to practices.

The noble Baroness is right to bring up conversion therapy and faith groups. Interestingly, however, it is not just faith groups who use it—I was shocked to learn that. In all this, there is a balance to be had. I strongly believe we should respect people’s right to practise their faith. Similarly, they should respect people’s right to live the authentic life they wish they lead. As I said, there is a balance to be struck, and there is an engagement to be had across the various sectors, including faith groups, and that is how we intend to proceed.

My right honourable friend Justine Greening announced that sex and relationships education would be made mandatory—I think from September, but I am not certain, so I shall leave a question mark there. If it is not September, I will write to the noble Baroness to let her know.

[Lord Smith of Finsbury (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I give a very warm welcome to the Statement from the noble Baroness regarding the survey that the Government have carried out and the action plan that will now be put in place. Embedded in it is the valuable recognition that far too much discrimination and hostility are still faced by LGBT people across the country. However, I urge the Government to take one further step, which is to ensure that full equality becomes available to LGBT people across the entirety of the United Kingdom, including in Northern Ireland.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Lord. Clearly, we engage regularly with the devolved Administration but matters such as this are for that Administration. Looking at how far southern Ireland has moved towards equality just in the last couple of years, I have high hopes for our friends in the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland.