European Union Bill

Debate between Lord Shutt of Greetland and Lord Stoddart of Swindon

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

My Lords, this is perfectly out of order. If necessary I will get the House to vote on whether I can speak.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, I believe that I heard the voice of the House, and I believe that the House is very clear that it wants to hear the closing speakers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

If anyone wishes to challenge me and move that I no longer be heard, let them do so, but I wish to ask a question. If I had been allowed to do so without the very rude interruption of the Whip on the Bench, noble Lords would have saved themselves a lot of time. What I wanted to ask—and I am going to ask it now—is whether, when the amendment states that a future Government “may”, it means “shall”. We often have debates about what “may” and “shall” should mean, and I think it is important that before noble Lords vote, if there is going to be a vote, they know whether they are voting for something that commits the next Government to something or is permissive for the next Government. Now I will sit down and be quiet.

Could I just add that the Whip on the Bench did not intervene on the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, who widened the debate on this very narrow amendment to the extent of whether we should be in or out? I think I have been extremely badly treated, and I hope that the Whip will apologise.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, I would not want to upset the noble Lord. I was taking the view of the House. In this business of a self-regulating House, occasionally we have to use judgment, and it was my judgment that we were ready to conclude this debate, and I believe that is the case.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

I might say to the noble Lord that he is not entitled to make that judgment.