Patrick Finucane

Debate between Lord Shutt of Greetland and Lord Dubs

Monday 12th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effect the lack of a public inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane may have on British-Irish relations and on the Finucane family.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, the Government believe that the independent review done by Sir Desmond de Silva QC will be the quickest and most effective way of revealing the truth and answering the Finucane family’s questions about what happened to Pat Finucane. The British and Irish Governments continue to work together on a wide range of issues of mutual interest—for example, the economy, commemorations and security matters.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that demands for a full inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane have been going on for years? They have come from the United Nations, the European Court of Human Rights, the Dáil, the Irish Government, the US Senate and the House of Representatives. Will he confirm that on 11 October last year at a meeting in No. 10 Downing Street with the Finucane family and their lawyers, the Prime Minister confirmed that he accepted that there has been collusion in the murder of Pat Finucane? Will the Government not accept that they will soon run out of excuses and that until there is a full inquiry into this tragic murder, the world will think that the British Government have something to hide?

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, first, I commend the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, in his efforts to celebrate British-Irish relations in the St Patrick’s Day gala reception that will take place later today.

On the noble Lord’s question, yes, many people have an appetite for an inquiry, but we have to accept that there are two features about inquiries: first, the enormous cost; and, secondly, the enormous delay. Indeed, were an inquiry to have been commenced and were it to take as long as the Bloody Sunday inquiry, it would be 2023 before we might expect a result, which in itself is 34 years after the very sad death of Pat Finucane. Certainly, I can confirm what the Prime Minister said in Downing Street, but Sir Desmond de Silva has been appointed to do his independent review. He has been on the job for five months and we are to expect a report—he has eight months to go.

Northern Ireland: Bill of Rights

Debate between Lord Shutt of Greetland and Lord Dubs

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, I cannot answer for the Government of Ireland. However, as I indicated on the previous occasion that the noble Lord, Lord Smith, raised this question, I wrote to the Government of Ireland to let them know of the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney. Your Lordships will note that, regardless of there being, in the noble Lord’s words, no progress, an Irish Human Rights Commission has been set up and is very busy in its work.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that this issue of a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland has been going on for many, many years? Can he confirm that the Government will not allow any one political party in the Assembly to veto progress towards the commitment that we entered into?

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, I cannot give guarantees but I do not believe that there ought to be vetoes. The Belfast agreement is clear. Of course, one highly significant party in Northern Ireland was not party to the Belfast agreement. Nevertheless, it is important that this matter, which is almost the final piece of the agreement, has not really been tackled. It is a tricky issue. The noble Lord will recall that his own Government had a bit of bother with it; 12 years on, we have not got too far with it. However, because we have now had another election in Northern Ireland, there is an opportunity to make a fresh start, which the Government are very hopeful of doing.

Water Supply: Northern Ireland

Debate between Lord Shutt of Greetland and Lord Dubs

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

Something like £2,000 million was invested in water in Northern Ireland in the 18 years up to 2006-07. Since then, a further £1 billion has been invested but it is quite clear that more money is required for investing in the infrastructure. However, acquiring help in the crisis is a different issue compared with long-term involvement in the infrastructure.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, given that the level of rainfall in Northern Ireland is probably not very different from that in the Republic of Ireland, why was there such a serious problem in Northern Ireland when there does not appear to have been one in the south?

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

I was there at the time, so I can tell the noble Lord that there was a bit of bother in the south as well. Incidentally, a piece of work was published yesterday by the Consumer Council for Northern Ireland showing that the biggest problems were people understanding what was going on, indicating that they had problems, wanting assistance and getting through to those who could help. That was the problem in Northern Ireland. If you look at the 60-page paper that was produced yesterday by the consumer council, you will see that it believes that Northern Ireland Water—these are the council’s views, not mine—was not prepared for an emergency of this type. It has been asking Northern Ireland Water whether it could see the advanced planning in case there is an emergency and it had not had it.

Northern Ireland: Public Expenditure

Debate between Lord Shutt of Greetland and Lord Dubs

Tuesday 22nd June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, the Government have no plans to review the Barnett formula until the fiscal stabilisation plans set out in the Budget have been worked through. However, that report is still valid and will be considered at the due time.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, further to the answer that the Minister has just given, does he agree that the problem with the Northern Ireland economy is not that the public sector is too large but that the private sector is far too small? Does he further agree that reducing corporation tax to the same level as that in the Republic may be a very sensible move, but that the private sector will need more to boost the economy than simply that?

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

The noble Lord is right: the biggest problem is that the private sector is far too small. However, there clearly is a difficulty when the corporation tax rate in the Republic of Ireland is 12.5 per cent—a matter which has been steadily addressed here. Northern Ireland does need more private sector jobs. It is interesting to note that between 2002 and 2010, something like 7,500 jobs were created by businesses from the United States. I have no idea what footloose industry there is about, but Northern Ireland has nevertheless gained those 7,500 jobs, and that was only the top five in that period.