Identity Cards

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I hear the point the noble Lord makes, which of course I would accept if it was a question of effectiveness, but our view is that it was not going to be effective, because the very people you would want to catch would be the people who would not comply. That is the reason why spending the money on better security and surveillance, better use of intelligence, the investments in national security we have announced, the improvement to the funding of the police and cybersecurity is the right way to go at the present time.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I welcome the Minister’s statement that there will be no rethink of identity cards. Knee-jerk reactions often lead to massive expense and total inefficiency. We remember the personal interviews when people wanted to get passports—I do not know whether the Home Secretary who introduced this is in the Chamber today. That proved to be totally wrong. Will the Minister confirm that in the first four years it was introduced 1.5 million interviews took place, of which only 12 were rejected, and when it was established, that there were—

[Noble Lords]

Question!

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

I will continue with my question. Can he confirm that there were 68 offices in the UK, of which 30 have been closed over the last few years? Can the Minister please tell us what the situation is with this personal interview for passports?

[Lord Bates]

A personal interview is required for all adults applying for a passport for the first time. It is an important deterrent element as well. One of the factors that is not recognised is that, in the numbers that the noble Lord quoted, there are more than 1,000 people each year who do not turn up for an interview when they are required to do so to support their passport application.

Syrian Refugees

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many refugees have entered the United Kingdom under the vulnerable persons relocation scheme for Syrian nationals, and what, if any, are the advantages of that scheme as compared to entry under normal immigration regulations.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the last published figures show that, by June 2015, 216 people were resettled in the UK under the Syrian resettlement scheme. Additionally, we have granted 5,000 Syrians protection under the normal asylum procedure since 2011. The Government will resettle 20,000 Syrians this Parliament. Resettlement provides exceptional protection routes for vulnerable cases whom the UNHCR judges are unable to access adequate support in the region, providing help by resettling them to the UK.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer, but is it not really rather difficult, when the Prime Minister has promised that we shall have 1,000 refugees settled here by Christmas and only 216 were resettled in the summer? Also, how are you going to make sure that the promise of 1,000 refugees is fulfilled? The 20,000 in five years does not compare very well with Canada, which is taking 25,000 by Christmas. How are the people who come going to be accommodated? Have the Government been in touch with local authorities? Even this morning, I had a text message from somebody in my own valley who said, “We want to accommodate Syrian refugees”. What are you doing about that?

Syrian Refugees

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to ensure that they meet the Prime Minister’s objective that 1,000 Syrian refugees should be brought to Britain by Christmas.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have said that we want to see 1,000 Syrian refugees brought to the UK by Christmas. We are working closely with local authorities, international delivery partners—chiefly the UNHCR—and the voluntary sector, putting in place the plans and structures that will deliver this.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer and the Prime Minister for his initiative. I also wish Tim Farron a good visit to Lesbos today. If they are coming under present regulations, does that mean that they will not be able to work for their first 12 months in this country? Does it mean that they will receive a subsistence allowance of £36 a week? Or is it a different regime?

[Lord Bates]

It is a different regime. The whole point is that these people will be taken from the region, pre-cleared and identified as eligible for leave to remain in the UK. When they get here, they will have the status not of asylum seekers but of people who have leave to remain. They will have access to the benefit system and the labour market.

Refugee Crisis

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to tackle the refugee crisis affecting Europe.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has announced, as we heard yesterday, that over the course of this Parliament the United Kingdom will resettle up to 20,000 more Syrian refugees under the vulnerable persons relocation scheme. The Prime Minister has also announced a further £100 million of aid, bringing the Government’s commitment to £1 billion, more than any other country in the world with the exception of the USA.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for adding to the Statement of yesterday, but we have a great deal of confusion. What is the Government’s policy? A week ago, we were told by the Prime Minister that we did not need to welcome any further refugees, as it would not answer the question, and that we should invest in the countries from which they were coming. Then this Sunday, on the Andrew Marr show the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that we need to invest in the work of local authorities in giving housing to refugees coming here. When we think of those 5,000 refugees, it is really 4,000 every year for the next five years—and that is as individuals. In families, it will probably be between 1,000 and 2,000 families a year. What is the Government’s policy? In all this, we have not a penny to be given to those who are most in need: those on the roads for hundreds of miles, and who even suffer drowning and so on, because the Government here are sitting on their hands and not doing anything in a practical way.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I say from the outset that it is preposterous to suggest that the drowning of migrants is somehow attributable to the Government here—it is attributable to those criminal gangs who actually pick on vulnerable people. Every one of us was moved by the pictures we saw of those drowning children, but that drowning child was just one example of what we have seen with those criminal gangs. The Government are at the forefront of working with EU partners to ensure that we tackle those criminal gangs. The noble Lord asked about government policy. Let us be clear: it is comprehensive. As I said in my original Answer, £1 billion has been sent to those countries which are supporting the people—the real refugees—across the Syrian crisis in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan—as I saw myself in the Zaatari camp. The Prime Minister has announced an additional 20,000 on top of the 5,000 places that we have guaranteed here to those people under the vulnerable people scheme. These are practical steps of a comprehensive policy in dealing with a situation which is impacting not just the region or Europe but globally. It needs a global solution and the UK is playing its part.

Mediterranean: Migrant Trafficking

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 14th July 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what proposals they have to support Italy and Greece in their efforts to assist people trafficked across the Mediterranean from north Africa and the Middle East.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the best way to support member states under pressure is to break the link between getting on a boat in north Africa and being permitted to settle permanently in the EU. The UK is playing a leading role in EU efforts to tackle the people smugglers, address the upstream drivers of illegal immigration, and explore radical ideas to greatly reduce the likelihood of illegal immigrants being able to remain in the EU.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that response. Many noble Lords will know that Llangollen international music festival—

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

I am delighted at that. Last week, it brought in thousands of people but only one group there had a standing ovation—the group from Nepal. People are sympathising with the terrible destruction that there has been. It shows the basic compassion and care of the British people. Does the Minister really think that the Government are responding to the immigration and the great tragedy evolving in the Middle East and Mediterranean—and the burden is being shared between Greece and Italy more than anybody else—in a way that is equivalent to the compassion and care that British people feel?

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord is absolutely right in this regard. This country has a proud record of offering asylum to those in need, and we continue to do that through a variety of programmes—but our view is that it is best done through individual programmes such as Gateway, introduced by the party opposite when it was in government, Mandate, and the Syria Vulnerable Persons Relocation Scheme. It is better done at a country level rather than internationally, but we are absolutely unrelenting in wanting to seek a solution to the tragedy unfolding in the Mediterranean.

Immigration: Regulations

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Wednesday 11th March 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have received in the past year from organisations dealing with the welfare of immigrants expressing concerns about the current immigration regulations.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are determined to ensure that people in all parts of our immigration system are treated with dignity and respect. Regular engagement with external partners takes place through the national asylum stakeholder forum and is an important part of ensuring that issues about migrants’ welfare are raised and addressed.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, has the Minister read the all-party report on immigration detention, published in the last few days? If so, does he agree with that committee that the system that we have at the moment is totally unworthy? There have been protests in both Yarl’s Wood and Harmondsworth in the past couple of days. Will the Minister work to remove the injustice whereby those affected are detained indefinitely, with indefinite deprivation of liberty and of human rights? Is it not hypocrisy to celebrate 800 years of Magna Carta while we allow this sort of situation to continue?

[Lord Bates]

My Lords, I have read the report which came out last week. The Home Office will, of course, give a proper response to such an important and thorough piece of work. As to the noble Lord’s point about detention, he will be aware that 93% of those who are actually detained in immigration removal centres are there for less than four months. They are the most serious of cases—people who have come to this country clandestinely. We need to establish their identity because it would be a dereliction of duty not to identify those whom we are letting into this country. There are foreign national offenders and people whose appeals have been exhausted. However, we are keeping this under review and that is why the Home Secretary has asked Stephen Shaw to undertake a thorough review.

Yarl’s Wood

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 24th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I would have thought that the noble Baroness might welcome the fact that the Shaw review will range much wider. Of the 30,000 people who are held in detention, around 80% are male, and it is important that their needs are reviewed as well. However, I am sure that the noble Baroness’s observation will be fed back to the review.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister satisfied that there is no concern at all about any of the detention centres that we have in the UK, or is there any detention centre that is really causing a worry at the moment?

[Lord Bates]

How do we define “worry at the present time”? We have rigorous systems of independent monitoring boards at every single centre. They consist of 12 independent people. We have the inspectorate carrying out its review. We have the independent review that we announced. We are happy that the places are safe and secure, but we are not complacent. These are vulnerable people and need to be protected.

Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, it is a privilege and a responsibility to take part in the debate this evening. I come from one of the most beautiful towns in the whole of the United Kingdom—Llandudno. I think I know the community of 22,000 people, and we have a Buddhist centre, a synagogue and, within reasonable distance, a mosque. We have Anglican churches—that is, the Church in Wales—and we have Welsh nonconformist churches. We are one group together. I remember that, at the time of tensions in Northern Ireland, the Roman Catholic priest and I were singing carols together outside the English Methodist church. At a local level, we are getting on well together.

However, when you come here you sometimes find that you have to struggle to gain at this level what we are already experiencing at a local level—not only in my town but in many other places. Sometimes we have battled here and we have won arguments. On immigration, we have mainly seen the end of detention of children for immigration purposes. We have seen other strides forward. At other times, we fail. We struggle, and I know that some of us have struggled very hard for the right of asylum seekers to be employed within six months of their arrival here.

It is difficult to get this message through. In this world we want people to be partners together. I was delighted that my noble friend mentioned the four Albanians—two Muslims and two Christians—who walked together in the demonstration in Paris. That is what I would like to see throughout the UK. We can be the example, where we are able to have multifaith groups. They exist in many places and people are able to say, “My brother, my sister, my family; we are one family”. We could really tackle a lot of these stresses before they become threatening. That we can do and here is an opportunity in some way or another to encourage it.

However, the world is full of uncertainties. I am not the only one who remembers the time when it was better to be red than dead—so some said. Others said that it was better to be dead than red. There are uncertainties and there is always some difference, as there is here between security and liberty. We are trying to see where is the line that needs to be drawn. This Bill seeks to draw that line. It has been improved but, as many have said, there are many improvements that we yet wish to see. We are grateful to those who have already battled for improvements. I sometimes measure our civilisation by Alan Paton’s values. Noble Lords will remember Paton as the author of Cry, the Beloved Country. In a lecture in 1953, he declared himself a liberal and defined the term thus:

“By liberalism I don’t mean the creed of any party or any century. I mean a generosity of spirit, a tolerance of others, an attempt to comprehend otherness, a commitment to the rule of law, a high ideal of the worth and dignity of man, a repugnance of authoritarianism and a love of freedom”.

That is my level.

What happened in Paris is a tremendous tragedy in so many ways. How does Alan Paton’s dream inspire not only Paris, France and the leaders of the free world but us in this country? What exactly does freedom of speech mean? Who should have it and under what circumstances can it be limited? The Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, got it right in his recent article. He said:

“This is the bottom line: in a free society, people have to be free to offend each other. There is no such thing as a right not to be offended”.

Here we are protected by parliamentary privilege. We are able to make remarks that we would be arrested for outside this House. Because the occasion demands it—and today it certainly does—we must be free to speak truth as we see it, be that right or be it wrong, without fear of what could be done to us.

The Bill does four things that we need to tackle. Others will disagree. Threats to our freedom can often come from within these walls as well as from without. We have to ensure the presumption of innocence, the right of abode, the right to privacy and freedom of speech. I want to focus this evening on one of those four: freedom of speech. In Chapter 1 of Part 5, Clauses 21 to 26 refer to,

“regard to the need to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism”.

It does not say “from being terrorist” or “from terrorist acts” but from being drawn into terrorism. Surely, this means the spoken word. I am just asking a question; I do not have the answers. Is this not an assault on the very free speech that all sides of the House have spent this week swearing to defend?

Is the Home Secretary giving herself the right to determine what can and cannot be said in many of our public institutions, including universities? I believe this is so. Is she granting herself the power of sanction over those institutions that fail to abide by her ruling? Under Clause 24, the Home Secretary “may issue guidance” and give directions. Under Clause 25, any failure to abide by this guidance could result in her enforcing the guidance “by a mandatory order”. Is this the freedom of speech that was meant when the four Albanians and the 40 or 50 leaders of the free nations marched to the statue of the republic in Paris? Is this what we speak of when we proclaim our support for free speech? What is the limit? Who has the authority somehow to destroy what we believe is a fundamental right to freedom of speech—the freedom to say things we agree with and tolerance of the things we do not?

In a Written Question—the Minister might remember this—I have tried to get the Government to define what someone has to say to be considered an extremist under these provisions. I understand that they had a very helpful discussion on what an extremist is. The Minister knows that I have not received a satisfactory answer. The vagueness of what is termed extremism means that the powers that the Home Secretary is granting herself could be applied to rooting out any ideas she chooses. It need not be only those of Islam. It could perhaps apply to liberalism or socialism, if she so wished. The powers give her that right. Of course, the target here is radical Islam. However, there is nothing in principle to prevent the powers being used to purge other ideas that the Home Secretary might disagree with.

These are difficult questions. Before I finish, I again quote the words of the Deputy Prime Minister from his recent article:

“The same laws that allow satirists to ridicule Islamists allow Islamists (and other extremists) to promote their views … But when they peacefully express views which the majority of people find odious, we need to remember what is at stake. Free speech cannot just be for people we agree with. If it is to mean anything, free speech has to be for everyone”.

The threats that face us are real; they are growing and they cannot be ignored. If we are to remain a free society—this is what our discussion in Committee and on Report will enable us to do—we must protect those cherished freedoms and not undermine them in any way, as, I suspect, some clauses of the Bill threaten to do.

Asylum Seekers: Mental Health

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Monday 10th November 2014 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the mental health of asylum seekers who have had to wait 12 months or longer before being allowed to apply for work.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, asylum seekers may apply for permission to work if their claim has been outstanding for 12 months. The Government have had no cause to assess the impact of this policy on the mental health of asylum seekers. However, we are always open to discussing any welfare concerns with voluntary sector and refugee groups.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I am grateful to the Minister for his Answer. However, does he not agree that we are all very much aware of the stress and tension that are caused when someone cannot find a job, which sometimes lead to suicide? Will he consider that asylum seekers, who are not allowed even to apply for a job for 12 months, face stress even worse than that faced by others? We know that there have been cases of suicide because of the prohibition against allowing them to work for that first 12 months. Would it not be a humanitarian gesture for us to reduce that 12 months to six months, so that asylum seekers have less time to wait until they can apply for work?

[Lord Bates]

It is a very difficult situation. Of course, we have every sympathy with the people who come here. However, the reality is that, if they are allowed to work while they are not here legally, we are saying that they are able to compete in the labour market with people who are here legally. That would be unfair. It is not the case that they cannot work; they are able to volunteer in the community and they are getting support, with all their accommodation covered and access to education and health care, including mental health care if they need it.

Mediterranean: Refugees and Migrants

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Wednesday 5th November 2014 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to restore migrant search and rescue facilities in the Mediterranean.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has had no involvement in Mare Nostrum, the Italian search and rescue operation in the Mediterranean. Given that search and rescue is a competence of individual member states, the Government have no plans to call for the restoration or replacement of Mare Nostrum. Instead, we will continue to work with the EU and with countries of origin and transit to address the causes of illegal migration and combat people smugglers and traffickers.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

Does the Minister agree with Amnesty International, which says that stopping search and rescue in the Mediterranean is causing the loss of thousands of lives? How many men, women and children need to drown before the Government change their policy?

[Lord Bates]

I reiterate that we are talking about the Italian Government. It is their decision, which they have taken. We all share a concern about the situation and the safety of people in the Mediterranean. We need to take a long, hard look at the organised crime gangs who are trafficking people, pushing them out to sea with very little protection, in unseaworthy vessels, and giving them the telephone number of the Italian coastguard. That is the regrettable and appalling thing about this whole situation.