Immigration Bill

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I will speak briefly in support of Amendments 79 and 80, to which I have added my name. The noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, has already made a very powerful case, as has the noble Lord, Lord Alton. While I appreciate the care taken by the Minister in his letter of 3 February, I am disappointed that the Government were not willing to budge an inch on what I—perhaps naively—thought was a rather small, albeit important, couple of amendments.

In Committee, the noble Baroness was rightly dismissive of the administrative arguments to justify refusal. Will the Minister give the House some idea of what the exact administrative costs are likely to be and what assumptions the Government made in deciding that it would be too administratively costly? Will he also give some idea of how many people in a year meet what he himself has described as the “narrowly defined” test to qualify for exemption on destitution grounds? While I prefer clear, legal entitlements, in the spirit of what the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, suggested, I wonder whether there is room for building on the destitution exemption.

For example, if an applicant could demonstrate the difficulties that an up-front payment would cause, short of meeting the destitution test, they should be allowed to pay in a limited number of instalments. This would be clearly circumscribed. In some cases, we are talking about really large sums, but even where it is just the most basic payments, it is still a lot for someone with very limited means to pay as a one-off. That point has not been adequately taken on board.

What I am suggesting would get round the fear, expressed by the Minister, of people being able to use payment by instalments as an interest-free loan, regardless of their capacity to pay up front. We are not suggesting that anybody can come along and say they would like to pay in instalments—just those who may not fail the destitution test but who would clearly face real problems.

On the domestic violence exclusion, how many people have been exempted under the rule—brought in, according to the Minister’s letter, in April 2015—that exempts treatment needed as a consequence of domestic violence? Would it not be simpler just to exempt all those who have been a victim of domestic violence, rather than making applicants prove that any physical or mental health needs are a direct consequence of it? We know, from other contexts, how difficult it is to prove these impacts—particularly on mental health—in a way that satisfies authorities. It can also be very distressing to have to provide that proof.

I have received an email expressing support from the Royal College of Nursing, which is very concerned about the workings of the health surcharge. One of its concerns is to know what mechanisms exist, and what assurance the Government can offer, that the revenue generated is redirected back into the NHS.

Finally, I support Amendment 81, tabled by my noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws. I quote from the conclusions of a study carried out by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and the Council of Europe, which adds to the strong case already made and states:

“Access to education should be better supported, including, where necessary, after young unaccompanied and separated asylum seekers and beneficiaries of international protection have reached the age of majority, as it plays a critical role in their transition”.

We had an example of that from my noble friend. It is important that we support these young people in such a difficult transition period.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

My Lords, I support the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy. It was such a help to those such as me who have been involved in church education for people from overseas. I hope that the House will support it.

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[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

My Lords, I suggest to those who say, “Yes, let us penalise people in this way”, that these are people. They are people with families, with abilities and with various stresses, as the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, has told us, including mental stresses that are often not taken into consideration. There are the conditions in which they are held. There was a report only three weeks ago on the conditions in Harmondsworth, with 660 detainees, which stated that it just was not fit for purpose. There were bugs, the toilets did not work and the showers were dirty.

We are looking at people and at what they are like when they leave there. Will they feel that British justice was fair and that Britain was handling them in a fair way, or will they feel resentment? What we do not need in the world at the present time are people who are resentful and ready to act in a violent way. They should know that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I would support a period of 28 days. There was one detainee in the report on Harmondsworth who had been there for more than five years. Others had been there for more than 12 months. This is an opportunity for us to say to the Government that the conditions are not acceptable as they are. Let us go for an exact limit. It can be 28 days if the majority agree on that. Otherwise, we should be treating people as people. They are not criminals; they are people—people with lives, with dreams, with a culture. So I very much support this amendment.