National Crime Agency

Debate between Lord Robathan and Laurence Robertson

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Robathan (South Leicestershire) (Con)]

It is customary to say at the start of a speech that it will be short and not detain the House too long. I shall try very hard to achieve that, and ask my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), who is on my right, to start coughing very loudly or even to kick me once or twice at the 10-minute point.

I agree with almost everything in the contribution of the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), given as he said in a “helpful and friendly” way. He is quite right that the Government have the responsibility to get involved, and I remind him again that his party has leverage with the SDLP. Let us all use all the leverage we have, and if we end up with Sinn Fein being totally isolated, so be it. That would be my answer.

I want to speak, I hope briefly, about one specific area—south Armagh, which I visited in the summer. I was in Dublin when a charming member of the Dail said that he had driven through Forkhill the previous week and had seen the shocking prospect of endless fuel tankers there. I said to my police officers that I wanted to go to south Armagh; I had never been there before; I had never served there. Back in the days of the troubles, south Armagh was known as bandit country. A distressing number of my friends were killed there, and I saw their names on the memorial in Crossmaglen police station and elsewhere. The Police Service of Northern Ireland looked after me very well. We went out with four vehicles scattered around—what I think we used to call “multiple patrolling”—and there was a helicopter overhead once we left Newry police station, showing the level of concern. I visited one or two IRA memorials down there. It was probably unusual, possibly unique, to see an SAS tie at an IRA memorial, and I hope it was appreciated.

The particular issues that took me down there were diesel smuggling, fuel laundering and the removal of markers from diesel. This is not a little thing done by a couple of farmers; it is serious and organised crime making thousands and thousands of pounds for crooks. Frankly, I would recommend that members of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee to go down and see it. Driving around these little lanes in south Armagh, one keeps on bumping into huge fuel tankers. We do not get that in my constituency of South Leicestershire and I doubt whether they would get it in north Wales.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend may be aware that the Committee looked at the issue of smuggling and counterfeiting and produced a report on the subject. We did indeed recognise that this is a very serious problem, as he is indicating.

[Mr Robathan]

I respect my hon. Friend for that. As I was saying, it is worth going down there to see what it is like. It is extraordinary. Lots of HGVs are scattered around the place, too. I do not know what was being smuggled, but it was difficult to get down some of the lanes because of the sheer number of vehicles. People should go and see that as well.

Stolen electricity is another huge issue. I should like the Northern Ireland electricity board, or whatever it is called, to tell us how many electricity bills are paid, because it seems to me that very few people do pay. Do not ask me how they manage it, but it is something to do with magnets: they get the meters going the wrong way. This is a major issue because, if someone is not paying for the electricity that he is using, someone else will be paying for it.

Benefit fraud across the border is big business. It is not just a question of a few people stealing a few pounds. As one drives around South Armagh, one sees staggering new homes—plush new buildings—all of them built during a time of recession. Where is the money coming from? A huge number of brand-new Mercedes cars can also be seen on the roads of south Armagh. I wish I had one of those. Where is the money coming from? These are huge rackets, as the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) knows, because her constituency borders on south Armagh.

I am sorry to say that the rule of law does not apply in what used to be called bandit country. I pay tribute to the PSNI, which is under constant threat in the area, and I thank it for the work that it has done. As for the Government of the Republic of Ireland, under Enda Kenny, they are absolutely on side. They do not want to have this criminal area on their border, because there is an overspill. So we have to ask who is against allowing the NCA, which would deal with this serious and organised crime, to operate in Northern Ireland, and why.

The SDLP has been mentioned. I get on well—I hope—with its Members. I think that they are honest and decent people, and I do not want to reopen the old arguments, but I am bewildered as to why they are opposing the NCA proposals. I really think that they should examine the reasons for their opposition. I fear that we may be seeing the scourge of sectarianism yet again. I understand what Sinn Fein are up to, and I would not describe Sinn Fein as a party with which I would wish to do business. We know the background of many of its members. I will say that I think Martin McGuinness has travelled a very long way, and that he behaves almost like a statesman.