Northern Ireland Troubles
Debate between Lord Robathan and Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent(5 days, 13 hours ago)
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Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. She reminds all of us of the personal cost that many people in your Lordships’ House and across Parliament have paid. She also reminds me of why I am so passionate about what we are trying to achieve: making sure that she and others get answers, but also making sure that this is the final generation that has to carry this burden. When I was in Northern Ireland earlier this year, I met with a group of people who called themselves the “peace babies”. It is incredibly important that we hold on to the peace babies and that they do not have to carry the burden of this trauma.
With regard to the specifics, the noble Baroness is absolutely right. The Veterans Commissioners of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales said in July that this is not a call for immunity from the law but for fairness under it. That should apply to everybody; everyone should receive the same treatment under the law. Protections will apply to all victims. I want to be very clear to noble Lords that this legislation was drafted with a view to what was specifically impacting veterans; while other people will benefit from it, we did start with that process.
On the court system, the noble Baroness makes a very valid point, which was also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Caine. My hope and expectation is that most people will seek to use the legacy commission. That is why we are strengthening the commission, its governance and hopefully giving more people confidence in it, so that it will not overburden the courts. I will revert on the other points that she made.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, I compliment the Minister on her deep feeling about what was said. I will comment on veterans. This Parliament, people sitting on these Benches and down there, sent young men, such as myself, to Northern Ireland into the face of danger. Many of them were killed. Not all of them behaved perfectly—I know that perfectly well—and some went to prison, but mostly people were doing their duty. We need to remember that the whole time.
On the other hand, we have IRA terrorists, such as Gerry Adams, who almost certainly was responsible for the murder of Jean McConville. I cannot mention any other cases. The Minister would expect me to remember people such as Andrew French, a friend of mine, and Simon Ware, a friend of mine, who were murdered by terrorists. I do not think that anybody has ever been caught for their murder, so I say to the noble Baroness: please remember that soldiers went there to do their duty. They may not always have got it right, but that is why they were there, sent by people sitting on these Benches.
Secondly, please make sure that no murdering terrorists, such as Gerry Adams, get money from the state, having murdered many members of the state and indeed the people of Northern Ireland.
Thirdly, if there is a problem with the law, change the law.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I will start with the final point: we are changing the law, and that is what we are spending a lot of time on. This includes the re-establishment of the Carltona principle, to ensure that the principle that several Members of your Lordships’ House used when they were Northern Ireland Ministers and believed that they were acting in good faith exists in law and is retrospectively applied.
I thank the noble Lord, and everyone who served, for his service. We sent many young men to Northern Ireland. Many did extraordinary things to keep us safe and I thank them for doing their duty. I make it clear that veterans’ families, including the families of the veterans he named, need answers too. I hope they will seek to go to the legacy commission to make sure that they get answers. It is why we want to make sure that veterans’ voices and those of the victims’ families are heard and are at the centre of the commission.
UK Extreme Heat
Debate between Lord Robathan and Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent(3 months, 4 weeks ago)
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Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I hate to disappoint my noble friend by saying that I have not read the report he references, but I will make sure I get a copy this afternoon—it is my birthday this weekend, so that will give me something to do. I referenced the summer resilience network, which is convened by COBRA as a cross-government network that brings together all relevant agencies and our devolved Governments to make sure that we are ready. With regard to this period of extreme heat, the first guidance was issued before Easter to make sure that local resilience forums were getting ready. The Cabinet Office takes this extraordinarily seriously and it will be part of our resilience strategy, which we will publish soon. As we are about to discuss the national security strategy, I reassure noble Lords that climate change and its impact as a security feature are referenced 12 times. This is something that the Government take seriously.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, I wish the noble Baroness a very happy birthday at the weekend. We should not take climate change in any way lightly nor, indeed, the rise in heat, but I think we should also remember that, during those wicked days of Empire, we all went to India and Africa and people managed to survive—and they still survive in India and Africa and places—so I do not think we should take this overseriously. Does the Minister agree that we should just take sensible precautions?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I think that is the most House of Lords question I have had so far. I think we need to remember what happened in 2022 when we had extreme heat in the UK. That was the first time ever that 40 degrees heat was registered in the UK—registered at RAF Coningsby—and there were nearly 3,000 excess deaths, 20,000 hectares were burnt, 14 major incidents were declared and 4 million birds died in 48 hours. The impact of heat in the UK is something we are going to have to deal with. The noble Lord makes an important point about heat overseas. We also have to make sure that British nationals have support when they travel, which is why we have issued guidance only this week about excessive heat in Spain, Greece, Turkey and Cyprus. We need to make sure that people look after themselves when they travel, wherever they are.
Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery
Debate between Lord Robathan and Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, the Minister may know that Gerry Adams is suing the BBC for accusing him of being—I am not quite sure how to put to it—not necessarily on the side of the good. Can the Minister therefore help the BBC in its defence, particularly in the case of Jean McConville, dragged from her home in front of her young children and murdered by IRA gangs? Can she look at how much we can help the BBC against Gerry Adams, particularly with respect to what he was doing with the Jean McConville case?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord served for many years in the other place and will be very aware that I cannot comment on ongoing court proceedings, but he does raise a very important case—that of the McConville family. Every time such cases are raised, we need to remember the impact they have on the families concerned and all victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland. Three and a half thousand people lost their lives; families were for ever destroyed, and many people were hurt. There is a responsibility on all of us to make sure they get justice where they can and get to find their truth too.
Clonoe Inquest
Debate between Lord Robathan and Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent(8 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord Robathan (Con)
I think we have just had one of them.
The current situation is that soldiers will not be willing to serve. Does the Minister understand that? We must get protection from the Government for soldiers—who are sent out by this place, this Parliament, to detect what is going on—unless they have done something appallingly wrong, which they have not on this occasion.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, we are very clear about the retention and recruitment challenges that the Armed Forces have had. We saw that during the previous Administration, and the noble Lord and I have sat in many debates discussing it. Our Armed Forces run towards bombs. That is what they did in the Troubles: they put themselves between terrorists and civilians and we will be forever grateful for their service. We will work with veterans’ communities to ensure that the primary legislation, when we bring it forward, reflects their needs as well as those of every other part of the community.