Greece

Lord Richard Excerpts

Monday 6th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Neill of Gatley]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate asks, again, a slightly delicate question. I mentioned in my formal comments that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor in particular had a number of discussions with key participants from the eurozone and the head of the IMF earlier today and this afternoon. I suspect that there will be further discussions during this evening and tomorrow. We are obviously aware of our position as an EU member relative to those inside the eurogroup, and we will offer in private the views that we think may be of some use in helping them come to the right resolution.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

I also have a slightly delicate question. The Minister referred a number of times to the delicate negotiations and discussions that are going to take place today and tomorrow. Can he perhaps lift the curtain just a little about what input Her Majesty’s Government hope to have in those discussions? Have we been asked for any advice specifically? Are we giving advice? I am not asking what the advice is; only that our presence should be established. Is that the position?

[A noble Lord]

Are we observers?

[Lord Richard]

My noble friend asks whether we are just going to be observers or will be participants in one form or another.

[Lord O'Neill of Gatley]

My Lords, it is important to remain focused. In terms of our own policies, we must focus on what we can do about the future of our own economy and, in the context of this crisis, make sure that we are protected from any potential further contagion in the best way that we can. As I also said, in private, we will offer discussion and ideas as and when we are asked. But the key for us is to make sure that we have the right control over the levers that we can control ourselves and that are relevant to the performance of the UK economy.

Barnett Formula

Lord Richard Excerpts

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, in terms of what is happening on the ground in Wales, the level of expenditure which Holtham suggested would be appropriate if there was to be a fair allocation is actually being spent.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

The Minister said that the Barnett formula is becoming less relevant to Scotland. That may be so, but does he recognise that it is deeply relevant to Wales? The committee of this House in relation to the Barnett formula, which I had the honour of chairing, was crystal clear: it is unfair. It should be changed, but the Government have set their face against that. I do not for the life of me understand why. It ought to be based on needs and not upon some mathematical formula being applied to a block grant system which has been out of date for 40 years.

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, I am well aware of the noble Lord’s views. The Secretary of State for Wales is considering the devolution settlement at the moment and is aiming to reach a cross-party agreement by 1 March.

Banking System

Lord Richard Excerpts

Monday 9th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, I have not had any representations, and of course I would be very happy to meet a delegation.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

I wonder whether the Minister feels encouraged by the strong and vocal level of support that he has had from the Benches behind him. One thing that has been very notable is that not a Conservative has got to his feet, and I wonder why. Would the noble Lord agree that for banks to become respected they have to earn that respect? Would he also agree that they have a very long way yet to go?

[Lord Newby]

Yes, my Lords, I would.

EU Budget Surcharge

Lord Richard Excerpts

Monday 10th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

I thank my noble friend for the questions; there is quite a list there. My right honourable friend the Chancellor has demonstrated how effective his constructive engagement has been in producing this outcome. I would expect the same result from the Prime Minister’s constructive engagement on the reform programme that we will put to the British people in 2017. It is absolutely right that we drive a hard bargain and get better value for money. If one looks at the EU budget, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has been the first to achieve a real-terms cut for the multi-year financial facility, through to 2020, which has thereby capped the amount spent. The weakest part of our performance of the past few years in that negotiation was, frankly, the poor rebate deal that the previous Government gave away, which put us in a much weaker position. That was by far the most ineffectual piece of negotiation. It is a complicated calculation to work out these rebates, but the rebate side of the calculation does not go back for the same full period as the GNI calculation.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

My Lords, the original demand from the Commission was for €1.7 billion. Its demand is still €1.7 billion, against which a British rebate of approximately half that sum has to be offset. If that is right, and I think it is, it does not seem to me that the Government have reduced the amount of the demand by one penny—certainly not by one euro. What they have done, through some creative mathematics, is bring in a rebate that we were going to get anyway and then pretend that they have reduced the €1.7 billion, which they have not.

[Lord Deighton]

My Lords, I am afraid that I can only repeat the position. It was far from clear that the rebate would be applied. That is the point at issue between us. We can continue to have that discussion, but it was far from clear that the rebate would be applied. That is what was accomplished in the last two weeks. The other things that have been accomplished are a deferment of the payment and that there will be no interest on those payments. We have also changed the rules so that we cannot get ambushed like this again.

Assisted Dying Bill [HL]

Lord Richard Excerpts

Friday 7th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Carlile of Berriew]

I do not know whether the noble Lord was here during the last debate—I apologise if he was—but I thought that that question was answered clearly. These things can be done very quickly indeed. Some of the answers could possibly be given in less time than it took the noble Lord to ask the question that he just asked.

Also in Amendment 67, a simple system is provided which involves the intervention of another independent person about how the act of assisted suicide would take place. That seems to be a straightforward safeguard.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

If the noble Lord will allow me, why does he make the provision of an independent medical examiner mandatory and not discretionary? In the word that he uses, the court “shall”; it is not that the court “may”.

[Lord Carlile of Berriew]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, who has great experience in law, for asking that question. It is one that I considered carefully. It seems to me that in cases where one human being is having their life ended deliberately by another, the court should have the safeguard in all cases of an independent expert, albeit that that expert may in the end be able to deal with the matter briefly.

Amendments 67 and 68 also deal with the way in which the assisted suicide, if it takes place, is to take place. It seems a wise, safe course that the independent person who oversees any act of assisted suicide should submit a report to the chief coroner. I think that it is the view of most lawyers, at least, that the chief coroner—currently, his honour Judge Peter Thornton—is doing an absolutely superb job and has shown how the coronial system can be made to work much better than it ever did in the past, so that seems to be a reasonable provision.

I turn finally to Amendment 172, because I referred to Amendment 175 briefly in the earlier debate. Amendment 172 provides for a form of declaration which in my respectful view should go with every one of these decisions, if they are to be made, and which will stand as a record of what occurred not only for the court but as an explanation to the individual’s family and descendants as to why he or she decided to act as they did.

Those are the very brief reasons why these amendments, in my respectful submission to your Lordships, have merit. Despite the passing of the earlier amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, these are issues that remain for consideration. I repeat that I do not propose any votes in this House on any of these issues today. These are serious matters which require debate and then reflection. I reserve the position as to what would happen on Report.

Northern Ireland: Corporation Tax

Lord Richard Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, a number of measures were announced in the Autumn Statement aimed at rebalancing, or rather promoting, the Northern Ireland economy, including another £132 million of capital expenditure, science and technology funding for the research partnership at Queen’s University and the slightly earlier decision to give the Northern Ireland Assembly decision-making powers over air passenger duty on long-haul flights.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, as I understand it, the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, was asking the noble Lord to confirm that if this happens in Northern Ireland, the Government accept that it would happen in Wales, too. Can he confirm that?

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, that is something that we will confirm once we have a final decision in Northern Ireland.

Taxation: Avoidance

Lord Richard Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

I thank my noble friend for giving me the chance to shed further light on this issue. HMRC is extremely clear that circular schemes which are designed to exploit gift aid do not work in tax law. It will challenge and litigate enthusiastically against any scheme that it believes does not work in tax law. As the schemes do not work in tax law, the anti-avoidance provisions are not necessary and the schemes should fall at the first hurdle of not being legally acceptable. However, I can confirm that it is the Government’s intention to include the general anti-avoidance rules as part of the Finance Bill 2013.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is a principle of English law that that which is not forbidden is permitted? Do not the Government recognise that merely to go on bleating from the sidelines and telling people that they should not avoid tax will have absolutely no effect whatever? Clever lawyers will be able to devise ways of continuing to avoid tax. If the Government want to deal with tax avoidance, they will have to legislate to deal with tax avoidance and stop preaching from the sidelines.

[Lord Deighton]

The Government are prepared to legislate against tax avoidance in the area of charities law. In both 2004 and 2010, Governments legislated to do precisely that. I see this as two distinct areas. On the one hand, we need to create a tax regime which encourages an enterprise economy and giving to charity. On the other hand, the quid pro quo for that kind of positive environment is that people pay their taxes. I can assure the House that HMRC will pursue diligently those who seek to avoid tax.

Wales: Barnett Formula

Lord Richard Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, one difficulty is that there is no consensus on the appropriate way in which to measure needs for any replacement. As the previous Government said in response to the Select Committee report,

“the Barnett formula has a number of strengths, among them the merit of allowing the devolved administrations to determine their own assessment of needs and priorities in devolved areas”.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords—

[Baroness Randerson]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, I am obliged to the Leader of the House. The Minister says that there is no consensus in the United Kingdom about the Barnett formula, but there is a great deal of consensus that it does not operate fairly. The Select Committee was unanimous in that opinion, taking a great deal of evidence on it and coming to that conclusion. For the Minister to come along parroting, as he does every time the issue is raised, that we cannot do it now because of the deficit, is frankly unworthy of the subject. It is totally dismissive of the decision that the Select Committee took.

Is it not also true that there is a perfectly practical alternative to the existing Barnett formula to which the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, referred—a needs-based formula? The Select Committee was set up to look precisely at this issue, which it did, and now it is time that the Government did.

[Lord Sassoon]

I simply refer the noble Lord, Lord Richard, to my first Answer.

Scotland Bill

Lord Richard Excerpts

Wednesday 28th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Steel of Aikwood]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, is held in great affection and respect in this House and he has given us a very good history of his formula, for which he deserves great credit. The reason I am opposed to this amendment is not financial; it is simply the politics of the situation that we are in today. With great respect to the noble Lord, he is now out of date. Subsection (4) of his amendment says:

“The new Barnett formula should be implemented no later than 1 April 2016”—

so we have new Labour, new Barnett; it goes on.

My argument is that by 2016, if politics develops as I expect it will in Scotland, the Barnett formula will not need to be amended; it will be abolished. We decided in 1997-98 to devolve financial powers to the Scottish Parliament—powers over expenditure but no powers over raising the money to meet that expenditure. I have said right from the beginning that that process could not exist for ever. This Bill moves us slightly in the direction of allowing the Scottish Parliament more financial responsibility for raising the money that it spends.

The three political parties in Scotland have recently appointed groups to do more work on implementing what the Prime Minister himself has referred to as future steps of devolution. At their recent conferences, all the parties set up groups to do more work. It would be ideal if they were co-operating, but at least a lot of work is going on to put flesh on the words of the Prime Minister. By the time of the referendum—which should it be as late as 2014 I would regret, but at least it would be no later than 2014—we will have, I hope, a decision against independence. We will then have to turn our attention to how we put flesh on the words of the Prime Minister and transfer financial responsibility for raising the money in Scotland to the Scottish Parliament for the subjects on which it spends. If we succeed in doing that, in the years to come, the Barnett formula sadly will disappear but the noble Lord will always have his name attached to that useful instrument.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, I apologise to my noble friend Lord Barnett for not being here at the beginning of this debate. I am afraid that I missed it on the Annunciator and I realised only after my noble friend had started speaking. I listened to what the noble Lord, Lord Steel, said. As I understand it, the object of my noble friend’s amendment is to get this House to declare quite firmly that the Barnett formula’s days are done. We went into it in great detail in the Select Committee. I do not want to refer to that in detail except to say that it was a unanimous report and that the membership of that committee included a former Chancellor of the Exchequer, two former Secretaries of State for Scotland, and two other Ministers, I think, who had served in Scottish departments. We went into it in considerable detail and all came to the conclusion that the so-called formula had been instituted by my noble friend Lord Barnett casually—I hesitate to use that word—or at least without any thought that it would subsist for generation after generation or would become enshrined with the term “formula”.

My noble friend is right. What is wrong with the so-called Barnett formula is the baseline, which is now about 40 years out of date. In those circumstances, how can one justify its continuation? We asked ourselves very firmly the question: could you have a formula which is based on needs? We came to the conclusion that you could. Indeed, we set out in some detail in the report the way in which you could arrive at a needs-based formula and the result of applying it. In those circumstances, how can the Government project an amendment which says that something that has been in existence for 40 years—it is clearly out of date and way past its sell-by date—and is designed only to preserve a situation, which, as I say, is 40 years gone? It is being done on spurious grounds when in reality we know exactly what is going on; namely, that the Government do not want to stir the pot in Scotland because they think that it may prove to be politically disadvantageous. I am sorry to say it but the pot should be stirred. After 40 or 50 years, it is time for this to be resolved.

I totally support my noble friend in what he is trying to do, which is to get this House to put a marker down that the days of the Barnett formula have gone and that we should look at a needs-based formula rather than the existing one. If my noble friend chooses to divide the House on this matter, I, for once—very rarely for me—would support him.

[Lord Lang of Monkton]

My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, in his attempt to abolish the formula in his own name. Most of us would give our eye teeth to have a formula named after us. The noble Lord carries a great burden and I sympathise with him because it is a burden based on a complete misunderstanding, to which the noble Lord, Lord Richard, has just alluded. Although, over the years, Secretaries of State have taken advantage of it in the territorial departments to varying degrees, it is not something that we have done with particular pleasure because we have become increasingly conscious of the anomalies inherent in it, as those anomalies have expanded.

It has distorted the debate with colleagues, created resentment in the country and spilled over into antipathy towards Scotland, which could colour the debate and the future referendum on Scottish independence. Because it is indefensible it really should be got rid of and we need a clear statement from this House that that should happen. I disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood, whose formula for keeping it and allowing it to wither on the vine was peppered with “ifs” and “assuming thats”. I think that we need a clear statement on it.

The reason why I think that the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, has been unfairly treated in having the formula named after him is that it—the twist to the arrangements, as he called it—was not a formula at all. It was a change in the way in which the additions were made to the baseline. They used to be expressed as percentages and be applied evenly across the whole United Kingdom. As the Scottish baseline rose, those percentages delivered larger cash sums. So the ingenious scheme which the noble Lord hatched with Mr Bruce Millan, the Secretary of State for Scotland at the time, was that instead of Scotland getting a percentage transfer, it would get a cash transfer. They would get the same cash increase to baselines per year, which would represent a smaller percentage when applied to their own baseline.

EU: Economic Governance

Lord Richard Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Liddle]

My Lords—

[Lord Richard]

My Lords—

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, there is time to hear from all noble Lords.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, did I hear the Minister saying that the Government would consider changes to the treaty that did not involve a transfer of sovereignty from this country to the EU? Did he say that? If he did, what are the implications of that for the Prime Minister’s commitment that there would be a referendum on the Lisbon treaty if there were any changes to it? There is a distinction between any changes to the treaty and changes that transfer sovereignty from Britain to the EU. Which is it?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, there will be a referendum on all proposed treaty changes that would transfer competence to Brussels. In terms of whether we look at treaty changes, if any treaty changes come forward and are proposed at the council tomorrow or at any other time, the UK Government will of course look at them and consider whether they propose to move competences. Depending on which category they fall into, we will act accordingly.