Children and Families Bill

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I am conscious that my amendment is something of an oddity today because it is the only non-government amendment on the list. I raise it because I still have hopes that it might become a government amendment. It is an amplification of a point that I raised on Report, and about which I asked a supplementary question of the Minister.

The issue concerns the Children’s Commissioner and the request that he or she would share equal footing with the equality and human rights commissioner in being able to bring cases under the Human Rights Act. On Report, the Minister said that initiating and intervening in legal proceedings was, in the Government’s view, implicit within the commissioner’s primary function; I certainly took that at face value. Following on, he said that the commissioner would have sufficient interest in a case, because of his or her statutory role to promote and protect children’s rights, to satisfy any judge who might question the right of the commissioner to intervene. He emphasised that the Government did not wish to put into the Bill anything to do with such a right, but assured me in answer to a supplementary question that incoming commissioners would be briefed on their powers in bringing cases before courts.

Unfortunately, about half an hour before the Public Bill Office closed for business last night, the Children’s Rights Alliance for England contacted me, having consulted legally—unfortunately, after the good meeting I had earlier had with Ministers about the Bill. The alliance pointed out that, currently, the Children’s Commissioner is actually prohibited from bringing legal proceedings under the Human Rights Act because to do so you have to be a victim. The Children’s Commissioner does not qualify as a victim in a case.

This was got around for the equality and human rights commissioner through a clause in the Equality Act 2006, which made an amendment to Section 7 of the Human Rights Act, allowing the equality and human rights commissioner to bring legal proceedings. All I am seeking, as I did on Report, is to acknowledge the Minister saying that he agreed that the two commissioners should have equal rights; and that amendments, instead of being made to the Equality Act, should be made to this Bill and to the Children Act 2004, to allow the Children’s Commissioner to bring things forward without running into the risk of being prohibited to do so by something which I suspect was not meant by the Government or anyone else. That is why I move the amendment. I apologise for doing so at this late hour, but we have made so much progress in the Bill that I hope that the Minister, in the spirit in which he has tackled everything else, will feel able to reconsider my original request.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I support everything that my noble friend has said. I very much hope that the Minister will find a way to make this a possibility.

Children and Families Bill

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, I will add a brief note. While I probably agree that the Bill is not the right place for these proposals, I remember the excitement of the early days when I appeared in your Lordships’ House and what was then the new Labour Government had brought in something called citizenship. It generated a lot of excitement because it would obviously have been a good place in which to put over the responsibilities of parents. Alas, it never happened, because citizenship got whizzed all over the place.

I have somewhat changed my views over time on PHSE. That also could be used rather more effectively in schools in the future in these areas. Above all, I emphasise the point that the earlier you can work with children on what their own children are going to need, the better. Hopefully, not only will it prepare them for being better parents but it might also help them be rather better sisters and brothers, if they are living in households where they need that extra guidance.

[Lord Ramsbotham (CB)]

My Lords, yet again one finds oneself rising in admiration for my noble friend Lord Northbourne’s persistence in pursuing these matters over and again. I always listen with great care to the good sense that he exposes on these occasions.

Recently I had to inspect prisons in Kenya on an extradition case. I was very struck that as we went inside each prison, there was a large board that was published by the Human Rights Commission of Kenya, listing the rights of prisoners and, underneath them, a list of their responsibilities. Reflecting on what my noble and learned friend Lady Butler-Sloss said, I remember seeing in a young offender establishment in Belfast the most imaginative course that I have seen for young people, which was called “Learning to live alone”. In addition to all the practical things that it taught them, parenting skills were in there. I remember being very taken by the fact that the question of rights and responsibilities was used in that course to educate them in their responsibility as parents. It was very well and admirably done, because it was not overdone; one has to be terribly careful about preaching to the young. The sooner that one can start getting the idea of parental responsibility out while people are at school, rather than waiting until they become parents, the better.

Children and Families Bill

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Ramsbotham (CB)]

My Lords, my amendment is very short and applies to many other aspects of this part of the Bill, particularly anything connected with assessment and further work, which, as my amendment states, should happen as soon as possible. I tabled it because I was disappointed that although this clause has, “Using best endeavours” in its title, there was no reference to a sense of urgency. Urgency is needed, as has been vividly explained by the noble Lord, Lord Addington, because people who have been identified with a possible SEN must be given the opportunity of developing as soon as possible so that their valuable time is not wasted. That is the purpose of my amendment.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I very much support this group of amendments and we have heard passionate speeches about this whole area. Autism and other such problems that individuals face are issues of which people are increasingly aware. Above all, it is vital that we support the noble Lord, Lord Addington, and the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, in what they have said. We will be creating more valuable qualified members of the community and making a life for people who have had much less of a life in the past.

If we take the point just made by my noble friend, there are many more people who have dyslexia or one of these forms of problem. We just do not know how many there may be, but I would not mind betting that if you asked everybody in this Room, there would be a lot of people who have relatives with addictions of one form or another, dyslexia, autism or whatever. I hope we can give enormous support to this. I see the noble Lord has more amendments later, and I think they need our support as well.

Offender Rehabilitation Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ramsbotham]

I support Amendment 4 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, with the suggestion that “18” should be substituted by “21” in order to bring in this vital group. I thoroughly agree with her about the work being done by the Transition to Adulthood Alliance. Further than that, the probation service was the first to admit that it has not been very good at dealing with the 18-to-21 age group in the recent past, with the exception of three very good programmes: the intensive alternative custody programmes in Manchester, South Yorkshire and London, which have been mentioned before in this House. I am not sure that the Youth Justice Board for England and Wales, which was very happy to take on the responsibility for 18-to-21s in custody is quite so happy having them under the youth offending teams, which are very much geared to the under-18s. On the other hand, I know that the Youth Justice Board for England and Wales is more than happy to work closely with the probation service in developing these adult services. I therefore hope that, in considering the rehabilitation of this vulnerable and impressionable group, the Minister will agree that the probation service experience in Manchester should be exploited and spread further. I know that it is poised to make an advance on where it had already reached.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, may I add one thing to what my noble friend Lord Ramsbotham has said, as well as supporting both the amendments? Very many of the young people who will be in custody or will have gone through this process will also have been in care with the local authorities. It is therefore even more important that special attention is given to them above the age of 18. I particularly support that aspect of the proposals.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

I added my name to one of the amendments tabled by my noble and learned friend Lord Woolf, rather thinking that they would be grouped together. That was perhaps the result of not being allowed the time to get our act together, but I suppose I must apologise. I hope my noble and learned friend Lord Woolf will be happy if I speak to this amendment and associate it with the other amendment. As well as supporting everything that has been said by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and by my noble and learned friend Lord Woolf on this issue, my particular concern is for the effect on the families of female offenders. I am concerned about their special needs because, as we all know, these women often have mental health problems and, I am sad to say, they have often been abused as young women. There is a lot of history of that. Drink and drugs also figure quite highly. But above all, the actual offences committed are often of a very minor nature. I can remember a visit to a women’s prison on one occasion and being asked by the women concerned why they had such harsh sentences compared with what a man would get for a similar offence.

Going back to the effect on the family, we need to know how many homes are broken up as a result of women being given a prison sentence, because that is a huge cost. If we are thinking, as we must, of financial costs as well as emotional and family costs, and of the long-term effect on the children of that family and their need to be taken into care, this should rate very highly on the list of considerations when sentences are being passed. I back what has been said by other Members, and I hope the Minister will be able to address these points and reassure us that by the time we come to Report there will be a much more satisfactory framework for what is intended for women offenders.

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I support my noble and learned friend Lord Woolf on Amendment 7. I understand that at this moment the Justice Select Committee in the other place is conducting an inquiry into women offenders. One of the areas on which it has had a lot of evidence of concern is payment by results. With reference to what we were told yesterday about cohorts, I presume that women offenders will be separate cohorts as far as payment by results is concerned and that the results that have to be achieved will be tailored to women and very carefully considered.

Crime and Courts Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Tuesday 13th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, in supporting Amendment 14, to which I have added my name, I shall speak also to Amendment 20, which noble Lords will note has virtually the same wording as Amendment 14 and for the same reasons. As the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, has made abundantly clear, the needs of women as regards community sentences in particular are currently not being satisfied. Indeed, we are still waiting for the Government’s paper on strategic priorities for women, which we have been expecting for some time.

In his answers to the debate we had on 30 October, the Minister mentioned that there had been success with young offenders. In fact, for young offenders, one has to read “children” because the success has been with the under-18s, led by the Youth Justice Board. There is then a gap, which is variously described as being those between 18 and 21 or 18 and 25. That debate has been raging for ages. It means that there is a gap in the provision for people of a very vulnerable age who are in transition to adulthood. I must commend to the House the remarkable work done by the alliance which has the name Transition to Adulthood. I shall mention in particular two documents published by the alliance. One is called Pathways from Crime: Ten steps to a more effective approach for young adults in the criminal justice process. The other is Going for Gold, which was published last week. It has a bronze, silver and gold approach to community sentencing, which I commend to the Government.

In commenting on community sentences, Pathways from Crime recommends:

“The few existing examples of young adult specific community interventions that exist across the country should be replicated nationally, and similar effective interventions should be available to all sentencers when sentencing a young adult”.

I say “hear, hear” to that. I admit that I was slightly, I hope, confused when in an answer on 30 May the Minister hinted that instead of young adult community sentences being handed to the probation service to administer, they were going to be handed to local authorities. I am worried about that because one of the recent successes in this neglected area, as the House has heard many times, is the intensive alternatives to custody programme. It has been piloted in Manchester, South Yorkshire, London and other places, and was very valuably evaluated by Matrix Knowledge, which proved the value that the programme presented in terms of preventing reoffending.

The probation service has neglected this group for too long, although now, having tasted success with these programmes, it is very anxious to get into the game. I believe it is very important that, instead of leaving provision for this group up to individual local authorities, it should be made clearly the responsibility of the probation service so that intensive alternatives to custody and other programmes can be developed nationally and, therefore, have some hope of consistency.

I am very glad that the subject has been studied with such assiduity by Transition to Adulthood because, in its work, it is filling in a great gap which has existed for too long. On 25 July, the Minister told me that there was going to be a commissioning strategy for young adults from the Ministry of Justice, which we still await. However, I hope that by raising the issue at this stage two very important gaps—women and young adults—can be properly looked after in the community sentencing arrangements, which the Government say in Schedule 16 they intend to introduce.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I will be very brief. I support both the amendments. They are vital and I hope that they will be adopted fully by the Government. As the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater of Butterstone, has said, it is an extraordinary situation, after all the reports that there have been over the years, that still no special arrangements have been made for women offenders. We know that so many of them have suffered. Around half the women in prison have suffered domestic violence and one in three has been sexually abused. Most of them entering custody have committed non-violent offences. I remember going around a women’s unit some time ago where a radio and television station had been set up and they were being trained to be interviewers as well as the technicians on it. I was asked quite deliberately why I thought it was that women got more severe sentences than men who had committed equivalent crimes. I did not have much of an answer at that stage, but when I checked on it I found that what they said was very accurate. They were being penalised much more strongly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, made a very important point about the children affected by this. It is absurd to break up families, particularly those that consist of just mothers and children. Quite often the fathers fall by the wayside when the mother goes in to prison. It is not just the break-up of the home that is traumatic—the home is often repossessed—but there is also the effect on the children of suddenly losing their mother and perhaps having to go into care. That is quite unnecessary if working together with the mother and the family can produce the best answer. I am quite certain that in the right circumstances it can.

I believe that Amendment 20, spoken to so effectively by my noble friend Lord Ramsbotham, is also crucial. We know that the cycle of deprivation concentrates on that particular group that comes in and out of prison, and so many of them are in that young age group. We are told that some of the reasons for this may well be that a lot of facilities available for children begin to fade away—the Prison Reform Trust has done an excellent briefing on all of this—and yet these children still have time to mature into adults and do not go through that transition until full adulthood which is reached at the age of about 22.

I hope that some of the experiments that have been reported on will be taken to heart. You have to have both the experienced and the expert there to help the young. Finding jobs or training is crucial if they are to be given an alternative to going back into the cycle. As well as the help of professionals, back-up with things such as HomeStart and people who know how to be supportive within a family are crucial for getting the young offender back on the right path. As we have heard already, there are experiments that have worked. Let us please ask the Government to back them. I am sure that they have exactly the same interests as we all have in this direction, so it is just a question of making certain that we get the right facilities and the right framework to enable this to happen.

Education Bill

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I, too, support the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, in this very important amendment. I also support his suggestion that this will be followed by more substantive amendments on Report.

Clause 1 is more about who things should be done to than what should be done. Here I declare an interest as the chairman of the all-party group on communication and language skills, which has been campaigning for years to try to get every child assessed to see that, in the words of the noble Lord’s amendment, children are ready,

“to enter school on reaching school age”.

I would like to see guidance in the Bill on what assessment should be received by each child to ensure that they are ready and who is responsible for doing it. One problem I have found when trying to get this assessment done is who pays. The people who do the assessment come from the Department of Health, but it is the Department for Education which is putting this through. Some people at the Department for Communities and Local Government are involved, while some are from the Ministry of Justice. Who is going to do this?

The best advice is contained in the excellent report published the other day by Dame Clare Tickell. In paragraph 3.22 of chapter 3, which is entitled “Equipped for life, ready for school”, she recommends strongly,

“that the Government works with experts and services to test the feasibility of a single integrated review”,

at age two to two and a half. That is excellent advice, which I hope will be taken up. Armed with that, then the work can be done to see what needs to be done to make certain that people are ready to back up the tone and the good sense of my noble friend’s amendment.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, the amendment is crucial for everything that follows in education. Frank Field and Graham Allen have set the scene; the sadness is that it has been accepted by all parties that this is the way forward. I am looking at the noble Lord, Lord Elton, who, under the previous Government, was at the forefront of pushing for the early assessment of children to make sure that those who had particular needs, whether special needs or needs related to background, had support. So we have agreement, but we do not have the resources that have been agreed for allocation.

The point that I tried to make in my Second Reading speech is that we must test the effectiveness of this—I do not mean a pilot; it is far too important for that. It must have the back-up of our belief that this is the way forward for such a huge proportion of our young people. The balancing, the nurture groups, and all the things that have been experimented with over the years can be brought into play in this area. We must work on that.