Postal Packets (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Berkeley

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I shall be quick, my Lords, because we have been at this for some time.

I was just saying that the Post Office has been continuing to prosecute innocent people. Suddenly, it has found 4,767 new documents, which will of course have to go into the inquiry, delaying it further. I suggest that it is not co-operating at all fully with the inquiry. Nevertheless, its chief executive got a bonus of £455,000 last year, so he must be all right. Fifty executives also got bonuses relating to the inquiry. I ask the Minister this, very gently: can the Government finally get a grip of this organisation? Most importantly, will they read the start of Wyn Williams’s report, which was published yesterday and says that the compensation schemes are running late? It also states:

“Under the legislation now in force all payments of compensation … must be made by 7 August 2024. My current view is that this will not be achieved”.


That is a terrible reflection on Ministers over the years—it is not just the present lot but many other people—but I hope that the Minister can give us some comfort that, once and for all, the Government will get a grip of this horrible project.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, it will spare the blushes of the noble Lords, Lord Dodds and Lord Weir, for them not yet to be in their places to hear me say that I agree with everything that they said. The debate that we have had, while more respectful and with more decorum than the extraordinary scenes in the committee of the House of Commons on Monday, does not undermine the seriousness of the measures that we are being asked to approve. “Yes Minister” could probably have had an episode on how to bring forward regulations with considerable impact and long-term consequences, but with an innocuous title, by taking powers very early, before they are necessary, without consulting those who have to implement them and without giving any data on their likely impact and, as a security measure, removing members of a committee which is asked to approve the regulations because you know that they will be significantly concerned about them.

I hope that this is not a trend. As the Minister said, this is not about implementing the Windsor Framework, but I hope that it does not start a precedent for how the Windsor Framework will be implemented. We were told, notwithstanding noble Lords’ concerns in a debate that we had on the Windsor Framework and the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, on the wider issue with the framework, that it was starting a new chapter. I hoped that that new chapter would be about transparency, openness, consultation, trying to build consensus, notwithstanding how difficult it would be, and bringing people with the Government on implementation, but this is in stark contrast to the way forward.

Stephen Farry MP intervened on the Minister on Monday calling for support for the business community in GB trading with Northern Ireland. I reiterate that call. It is necessary to carry on the support that is being provided to businesses to overcome some of the difficulties in the Government’s initial protocol so that they can overcome the difficulties that they will face with the implementation of the Windsor Framework. The Road Haulage Association said very clearly that this measure will bring new burdens on business and add to bureaucracy. That is not unfettering. The noble Lord, Lord Dodds, was absolutely correct: this is fettering internal UK trade.

The Minister in the House of Commons said that this SI was the result of “a hard compromise”. That language was not used by the Minister here. It is, to some extent, more honest to say that it results from a hard compromise but when the Government have made that compromise, they then have to own it and act honestly and openly.

Let me give one example of where there is still confusion. I commend the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s report. I hope the Minister will have clear responses to its strong recommendations and concerns. They were not made lightly, as the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, indicated, but followed proper consideration from a balanced perspective. That should be taken into consideration.

The Government used the example of a granny in GB sending a birthday parcel to her granddaughter in Northern Ireland. That would not be affected by this SI, but if the granny used online purchasing from a company that then used another company to dispatch the parcel to the granddaughter, it would be covered by the SI. We do not live in the 19th century as far as how people send parcels. The Government need to be clear about the estimated number of parcels that are likely to fall under each of the lanes, the percentage that will now be opened for checks and the likely impact on the businesses that would be dispatching and receiving them. The Minister in the House of Commons said that the Government could provide only estimates at this stage, and there is no impact assessment, as there should have been.

On a previous occasion in Committee the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, raised the issue of measures. The Minister said that this is not about implementing the framework agreement but, conveniently, it is about implementing it in order to get out of having an impact assessment. The Government have said that an impact assessment is not needed because, as the Minister said, this is so limited in scope. When it affects all parcels being sent from GB to NI, it is not limited in scope; and when the definition of those will now have to be inserted after “foreign postal packets”, that is not limited in scope either. When will the Government provide the detailed information about the impact of all that is likely to be covered by these regulations?

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 15) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Berkeley

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister comment on a report in the Sunday Times yesterday about the export of oil from Russia in a Russian ship from the Black Sea? It tied up against another ship somewhere in the Mediterranean and that oil was transferred over several days; the oil subsequently was delivered to Immingham. That, to me, is importing Russian oil. Are these regulations going to stop this, and how are they going to check it?

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I have been in Ukraine in the winter, and that, combined with the indiscriminate barbarity of the Putin regime towards the people of Ukraine in what will be a very punishing season, means that we need to redouble our efforts to make sure that there is no impunity for the Russian regime. We therefore support these sanctions and, as the Minister knows, we have, from these Benches, been consistent supporters. However, with the news that was reported just last week by the Financial Times that Russia’s gross domestic product has fallen by only 4%—far less than had been anticipated—does the Minister agree that we need to consider further areas where there can be damage to the regime’s economy and how it operates it?

Notwithstanding the information that the Minister has provided in the past regarding the impact of these sanctions, the impact on the Russian economy is less than we had anticipated. One of the reasons for that is that Russia has been able to circumvent some of the sanctions, with trade increasing in energy especially. It is therefore welcome that there has been a shift of tone in the G20 from India and China, in addition to the other G20 countries, regarding their position on the Putin regime. Could the Minister outline areas where there are discussions on expanding the type of financial instruments that could be inflicted on the regime? If the Russian economy is falling by only 4%, which is only 1.5% more than the UK economy is anticipated to fall in this coming year, then this is not likely to bring about significant change in the type of aggression that Russia is waging on the people of Ukraine.

The Minister said that these regulations have been developed in co-ordination with our allies, but they come into effect after the EU sanctions. The Government themselves state that these have been brought forward

“to further align with the EU’s existing prohibitions

on

“oil refining technology and manufacturing products”.

On the expansion of the list of revenue-generating goods, which the Minister outlined, the Explanatory Memorandum says:

“The aim of this measure is to align with the EU to include two Russian product groups”.


Although we support the regulations, why has there been a delay in the UK bringing forward measures when they have already been put in place by the EU? If they are developed in co-ordination, surely it would be better to implement at the same time as our allies.

Have the Government assessed the effect of the prohibition on the import of gold with regard to trade with our allies in the Gulf? I have seen at first hand, on a visit to Africa, the illicit trade in gold, which is funnelled through our Gulf allies and then makes its way to Russia. What action are we taking with our allies and trading partners on the gold trade in the Gulf?

Could the Minister explain a minor point that is curious to me? Although we support the measures on those importing and acquiring gold jewellery that originates in Russia, the Explanatory Memorandum has, in brackets,

“(with an exception for personal use, which will also apply to the export of gold jewellery)”.

I cannot afford much gold jewellery but I think that quite a lot of gold jewellery is for personal use, so why are we putting in place measures to prohibit gold jewellery with an exception for “personal use”? That does not make much sense to me, so if the Minister could explain it, I would be grateful.

On the No. 16 regulations, I very much support prohibitions on the supply and delivery of certain ships, notwithstanding the very valid question asked of the Minister regarding circumventing these prohibitions. We also welcome the shift in tone from our friends in Delhi. But what further work is being done regarding the rupee-rouble swap arrangements for India’s purchasing of oil? I have raised this with the Minister on a number of occasions. He knows that there have been ways in which Russia has profited out of the sanctions on energy and oil. Can the Minister outline clearly that Russia is not profiting from our allies through its purchasing arrangements? What discussions are we having with India in particular regarding its purchase of Russian oil?