Northern Ireland Protocol: Grace Period

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. We developed a model of Brexit and implemented it on the back of the election victory in December 2019, which is about leaving the customs union and single market. We believe that the United Kingdom will benefit from control of its own laws, trade policy and money. That situation will give us benefits. We would like a constructive relationship with the European Union and I will be working to ensure that happens.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcome the noble Lord to the Dispatch Box. We knew that businesses which export out of the UK to the EU required an HMRC EORI number, but now businesses need a Northern Ireland EORI number to trade internally in the UK with Northern Ireland. The noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, stated in a letter to me on 11 February that, of the 770,000 trading businesses in the UK, only 58,000 have a Northern Ireland XI EORI number. Why would businesses in the UK require export registrations to trade with other parts of the UK? If there is unfettered trade within the UK, why do only 12% of UK businesses currently have the capability to trade with Northern Ireland?

EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Friday 8th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, on behalf of my colleagues, I also welcome the noble Lord, Lord Wharton of Yarm, to the House.

Until now, this country has never signed a “reverse” trade and partnership agreement, as the Financial Times put it today. Because of the unfinished businesses laid bare in the 15 joint declarations of intent, which still need to be fully implemented, by the time they are, the first review period will be approaching the agreement overall. Therefore, it is our duty to provide post-legislative scrutiny, and it was unacceptable for the Government’s Explanatory Note to the Act last week to state that it was not appropriate to do so.

In winding up that debate on the legislation, the Minister afforded himself one amusingly hyperbolic mention of my party, saying that it

“represents a clear and present danger to the national weal.”—[Official Report, 30/12/20; col. 1915.]

Hitherto unaware of the puissance of the malign influence of simply our scrutiny of government legislation, I thought the line was telling. The Minister felt that questioning and challenging the Government equated to denying and thwarting the will of the people; this is an intellectually lazy argument, but I do not deny that it has potency. It was used to good effect in 2019, and it will be north of the border in May. It is lazy because I have had it used against me by the SNP since it took office in 2007: question it and you somehow question your own country.

Incidentally, this Government use it inconsistently. Manifesto commitments are sacrosanct in this area, but other commitments, in their 2015, 2017 and 2019 manifestos, and the law on development support to the world’s poorest, can be jettisoned. The mandate from the will of the people is a pick-and-mix one for this Government, it seems.

In this agreement, how successful were the Government in delivering what they set out in their own negotiating objectives? They secured an ability for lawyers to practise in the EU, but not EU law. There is an agreement on electric vehicles in relation to rules of origin but just for five years, which is not long enough for investment planning, and the EU knows this. There has been great UK fanfare over the absence of EU court supervision over UK subsidies, but this was never in doubt because the EU never sought it. There is a small increase in quota for fishing but, as my noble friend Lord Teverson indicated, it is no surprise that fishing communities feel betrayed in the south-west and the north of Scotland.

The undeliverable red-line promises on the whole of the UK leaving on the same terms were discussed by the noble Lords, Lord Trimble and Lord Empey, and all those Peers who spoke in this debate literally from Northern Ireland, asking the Government to be honest that there is now a border within the United Kingdom. Reference to Gibraltar was well made; for the first time in three centuries, we could see Spain have the last word on who enters Gibraltar.

I did go through the negotiating objectives of May that the Government published and then looked at the agreement made in December—as in, what we sought and what we gave up. We gave up extensive trade facilitation areas. We gave up mutual recognition on conformity. We gave up on full sovereignty over our fishing waters. We gave up on demands for services in the agreement—this had been a red line for inclusion, which turned into a white flag—and, because we gave up on services, we have created a reverse incentive for providers to be based in the EU.

We gave up on adequacy on data, and we are awaiting their judgment and will be beholden to it. We gave up on securing mutual recognition of qualifications, as my noble friend Lord Shipley indicated. The surrender on this has been compounded, as we now know, by the fact that not only is there not mutual recognition between the UK and the EU but this is an area where we now need separate procedures in each of the 27 countries. We sought duty free and quota free across the board, but did not get it—not on processing, distribution or diagonal cumulation. Steve Rowe, chief executive of Marks & Spencer, said yesterday:

“Tariff free does not feel like tariff free when you read the fine print”.


As Professor Alan Winters indicated to the British Chambers of Commerce yesterday, we now have in Article 9.4 the rebalancing procedure—or, as he said, “dynamic alignment in disguise”. This approach, we remember, was such anathema to the Boris Johnson Administration compared to the May Administration. What that means is that the EU can unilaterally trigger trade restrictions straight away and then allow an appeal. He cited new forthcoming EU regulations in 2022 which will raise standards and, if they believe that their raising standards will mean that trade with us will be diminished, they can take rebalancing measures against us unilaterally, which we will then have to appeal.

It is not a new phenomenon that those who seek to use the concept of sovereignty to supersede the economic development of our own people also bring about degrees of protectionism, either by tariff or non-tariff burdens. The new element, of course, is the approach to raise them with Europe but, at the same time, to say that they will reduce it for new markets elsewhere in the world. But this is not working, and it will not work. For example, during the six months to October, Italy became a larger exporter of goods to the United States than Britain for the first time since records began. In the six months to November, Germany and Italy on a combined basis exported $6 billion more to China than in the same period—a 9% increase. Chinese imports from the UK fell by 18%.

If it is all going to be good from the Government’s point of view, why do they not publish an impact assessment? The Minister said last week that there had not been time for it, but this surely cannot be the case. He wrote to me on 19 May, when I asked him what the Government’s intentions were for an economic impact assessment of the conclusion of the European negotiations. To quote from his letter, he said that “a call for evidence will open in the coming months”—he wrote this in May—“and we will provide further details in due course. The call for evidence will capture the complexity and represent the varying impacts that will be felt across different parts of the economy.”

I cannot find that call for evidence; I asked the Lords Library, which could not find it either. Could the Minister state what happened to that call for evidence for an economic impact assessment of this agreement? We need to know whether I am right—or independent academics or economists are right—in indicating that there will be pressure on the UK economy because of this agreement, or whether the assertions of the Government are correct that there will indeed be benefit. The Government need to publish an economic impact assessment to show which regions and sectors will be impacted, because we cannot shape our future economy, as the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, asked us to, if we do not know the impacts on it.

Finally, the Scottish concept of the common weal includes social justice as well as economic prosperity. We on these Benches love our country as much as anyone on the Government Benches, and we wish to see it prosper. In particular, we want to see our businesses export more, and we will campaign to cut costs for our businesses. We want to see more women entrepreneurs in the service sector, and we will campaign against the barriers that have been raised against them, as my noble friends Lord Oates and Lord Tyler and others indicated. We do not settle for a reverse trade and co-operation agreement, and we will work in the months and years ahead to make it positive. The Government’s approach going forward is engaged in perhaps a relentless shift of moving our biggest trading partner to be our biggest trading competitor. But that is not inevitable, and we need to commence the work to reconnect the networks that we had done so well, as a free people, to build with our European partners.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I was wondering last night what a cynical Government would do if they knew they could get only a poor deal because they had limited their own hand so much in negotiations. Leave it to the last minute? Issue inaccurate and misleading press statements when it was made? Allow only for minute scrutiny? Seek to prevent any post-legislative scrutiny and refuse to publish an impact assessment, perhaps? But, as others do, I love my country and it was a rather heartbreaking exercise, over the last few days, to read, side by side, the Conservative Government’s draft negotiating document for a free trade agreement, published on 19 May, and the final agreement. In almost every single area, from the betrayal of fishermen and Gibraltarians through to the vast new burdens on our businesses, the consistency and scale of the poor negotiating was laid bare in cold text.

The independent UK Trade Policy Observatory assessment stated:

“Even with the free trade agreement (FTA) announced on Christmas Eve, Brexit increases UK-EU trade costs, reduces trade between them, and requires resources for form-filling, queuing, etc. These in turn, lead to changes in consumption which reduce UK residents’ welfare.”


It goes on to a sobering conclusion:

“Exports of value added will fall by nearly 5.5% relative to a pre-Brexit scenario and GDP by 4.4%.”


My noble friends Lord Fox and Lady Kramer will outline this in more detail. The refusal yesterday of the noble Lord, Lord True, to commit to publishing an impact assessment, in direct contradiction to a letter he sent me in May, is likely to be seen more cynically by those communities and sectors that will be impacted most.

The punishing absence of services was expected, as the UK’s “red line” on securing services continuity turned to pink and then to a white flag ages ago. We knew some of the details of this already. The noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, was appointed Trade Minister from being chair of one of the UK’s biggest banks, and when he moved Barclays’ European headquarters and almost €200 billion in assets from London to Dublin last year, he said:

“We believe this will give us a competitive advantage”.


Those of us warning of the damage of this course were told, first, that we were scaremongering and then that we were sore losers, but I looked at the Leave.EU website archive and in the questions and answers it said this to the question of what impact leaving the EU would have on trade:

“The remaining EU member states will seek a trade agreement assuring the same level of free exchange of goods, services and capital as is the case today.”


They did not, and this promise was made in falsehood and fully realised in its egregious breach. However, the lies, tangled webs of deception and parliamentary obfuscations are nearly over, and we will have to deal with the consequences.

Liberal forebears joined together to ensure the widest benefit of free, fair and open trade well over a century ago. We fought relentlessly against Conservative protectionism at the turn of the last century. We split from the Conservative and National Government over their imposition of tariffs all round. Now, a century on, we need to try to militate against the worst elements of this poor agreement. We will have to be in the vanguard of supporting women entrepreneurs in the service sector to tackle the new barriers, helping our businesses export against the new burdens and supporting those wishing to seek advantage not by moving out of the UK but by staying in it and working with others to reconnect with Europe. I never thought we would need to rejoin this fight, but we do—we must, and we will with vigour.

UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

Well, yesterday’s Statement already seems an age away as we now contemplate a no-deal exit with even bigger threats to our economy and to Northern Ireland’s by the introduction of tariffs on our food and consumables, and a big hit to our exports as they face charges and bureaucracy that for some could spell disaster. We know that the border plan still leaves Northern Ireland businesses uneasy, as the temporary measures to ease transition from 1 January only highlight the long-term red tape and costs that will then appear.

Mr Gove’s three-month “grace period” for supermarkets from export health certificates—at £200 a piece—on animal products, and his six-month exemption from meat having to be frozen before export, simply indicate what we will face without a deal, when all goods for Northern Ireland would need import declarations. Northern Ireland trade groups worry that, while Mr Gove focuses on tariffs, it is the bureaucracy created that will change the relationship of Northern Ireland businesses and consumers with those in Britain. Even as Ministers keep repeating the PM’s December mantra:

“We’re a UK government, why would we put checks on goods going from NI to GB or GB to NI?”,


in fact civil servants and business know full well that paperwork and checks are exactly what is coming down the line.

I turn more broadly to the so-called negotiations with the EU, which are sounding more and more like the prelude to a no-deal exit, with the Prime Minister this evening even asking us to prepare for that. We on this side of the House are desperately aware of businesses struggling through the pandemic that do not know whether they will face tariffs in three weeks’ time, or even whether their import/export channels will work.

At the start of Brexit we on this side were worried about workers’ rights and jobs, but today we seem closer to the concerns of businesses—traditionally upheld by the Conservatives—that simply despair at the Government’s disregard for their futures. Again and again over the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill, Ministers have said that businesses need certainty—but that is the last thing the Government have provided. It is not simply about tariffs and paperwork; it is about data adequacy, so that information flows can continue, and about driving licences and rules. I have to say that I personally am less than happy about the suspension of drivers’ maximum hours. I do not fancy driving down the M20 alongside lorry drivers who have been driving well beyond their regulated hours.

Nor is the lack of a deal just about the economy. Our security is also at stake. SIS II, Europol and the European arrest warrant are tools that are essential for our safety. And as for waving through changes to customs rules that the Government admit will put the security of the UK border at risk, does the Minister agree that the new customs safety and security procedures regulations sound like a smuggler’s charter, in addition to compromising our border security?

I hope the Minister is not tempted to repeat the nonsense that his colleague in the Commons voiced earlier today, about Labour undermining negotiations by asking these questions. It is the Prime Minister who is undermining negotiations, whether by Part 5 of the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill or by unrealistic demands that only the EU, and not the UK, must compromise. It takes two to tango. The EU knows where the problem is, and it is not in this Parliament.

Today, Mrs Mordaunt urged

“all colleagues, whatever their political … imperative, to put our nation first over the next few days”.

Hear, hear to that. But please will she also address that to Mr Johnson, so that he puts our nation first, and agrees a departure deal to safeguard our security, our businesses, our consumers and our environment? His words tonight bring no reassurance, as he triggers the preparations for no deal. That is not a good signal to negotiators; it is not a good signal to business.

It is interesting that, after the referendum, Ministers from this Dispatch Box claimed that it was immigration, and the desire to end free movement, that led so many to vote for Brexit. But today we are told it is all about sovereignty—that that is why people voted for Brexit. Sovereignty is a word the Minister uses quite often—but is it a sovereign nation that jeopardises trade, security and well-being by refusing to work alongside our near neighbours and main market?

Ursula von der Leyen speaks of a partnership agreement. Partnership: I like the sound of that. So I ask the Minister, given that there are 27 sovereign member states willing to put their citizens first by supporting trade and engagement, should not the UK be willing to put our citizens first, protecting their security and economic well-being by constructing a future partnership deal that avoids: the food price rises we are warned of; the tariffs on exports; the no entry to EU countries due to Covid, with which we have now been threatened; new driving licences and insurance documents; expensive or unavailable health insurance; customs posts and traffic delays; and threats to our manufacturers who are dependent on imports? Is that really too much to ask from this Government? Will the Minister, even at this late hour, urge the Prime Minister not simply to go the extra mile that he has promised but to go as far as is needed to get a deal that is in the interests of the whole of this country?

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Government Chief Whip for facilitating a substitution on our Bench, and I am glad that the Minister is keen today. Will the noble Lord allow this House to debate the content of the technical papers as a result of the agreements that have been reached? We know that the Statement in the House of Commons was just one part. The statement from both the Vice-President of the Commission and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster was very brief, but it alluded to a series of technical papers that will have far-reaching consequences for the operation of Northern Ireland and GB trade, as well as the other areas that are the responsibility of the joint committee. Will we be able to debate them?

During the passage of the Trade Bill, I have said repeatedly that one of the founding principles of my party was fair, free and open trade. We want to see businesses, large and small, across all countries in the UK, prosper. I do not think anybody could fail to have been moved, listening to “The World at One” on the BBC today, when a businessman in Northern Ireland, representing family businesses, laid bare the reality of the new costs that the Government are imposing on businesses doing their work. He said that, for his business, even with a deal with the European Union, he was looking at extra administrative costs of £150,000 —or, as he put it, four or five people whom he will not be employing.

The totality of these costs was highlighted by the announcement today of a further £400 million, which is going to offset the cost of bureaucracy and business burdens rather than being invested in people and our economy in Northern Ireland.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said in the Statement that he wanted to see the border operating model for Northern Ireland

“fully operational on 1 January 2021”.

We know from the euphemisms about a grace period, or, on the border operating model, a phased introduction, that it will not be fully operational. In fact, it will not even be partially operational. It will not be ready. Ministers in this House and the other place have repeatedly blamed businesses for not being ready, when the Government themselves are not. I hope that the Minister will be able to answer specific questions today from across the House.

There was reference during Commons questions on the Statement to new border facilities for Northern Ireland

“in order to ensure that these limited and proportionate SPS checks”—

checks on live animals—

“can be carried out at the port of Foyle, Warrenpoint, Belfast and Larne”.—[Official Report, Commons, 9/12/20; col. 851.]

These are in addition to what we have always had at the port of Belfast, which has typically been checks on live animals coming across from Scotland. When will these four new ports be operational? Why is there the need for this expansion, if the Government’s mantra is that there are no additional checks? What extra checks, other than SPS, will be carried out on goods going from GB to Northern Ireland under this agreement?

The director at the port of Larne, Roger Armson, spoke to the Northern Ireland Assembly in October, raising concerns about the lack of clarity on the new system for IT at the border and the goods vehicle movement system. He said that given that 40% of cargos head south, it is vitally important to secure clarification. There is still no clarification, so can the Minister say when they will be able to have it?

In the Statement, the Minister said that the agreement will

“allow some EU officials to be present at Northern Ireland ports as UK authorities carry out our own procedures.”

This is the first time that foreign entity staff will be supervising UK staff at our ports. Where will they operate from? This Minister—the noble Lord, Lord True —said on 12 May:

“There is no reason why the Commission should require a permanent presence in Belfast to monitor the implementation of the protocol”.—[Official Report, 12/5/20; col. 655.]


We now know that there is, so how will it operate for these foreign inspectors?

The Minister could not answer simple questions with regard to goods that are packaged in Northern Ireland going to GB, and vice versa. He said that there is no clarity in the first phase but he was hoping that there would be some information very early in 2021. He said, “This is what I am advised”. What can he advise the House now as to when businesses will be clear about the information that they need to put on their goods—goods that are either packaged in Northern Ireland or goods that are going to be moved from GB to Northern Ireland? We need answers.

In its paper on Monday this week, the Chamber of Commerce agreed that it needs answers. That paper made grim reading. Of 35 sets of key questions which they had signposted with a traffic-light system, only 11 were marked green—meaning that they have been given satisfactory answers. There were 19 at amber and five at red. One of the red questions was about what food labelling will be in place. We know that there is a grace period but is it purely, as the Statement said, to allow supermarkets to prepare? To prepare for what? Has the decision been made about whether foodstuffs going from GB to Northern Ireland will have to have EU or UK labelling? A grace period is only that if we know what happens at the end of the three months. Where is the clarity?

It is not just businesses that have not had answers. On 12 November, I asked the noble Lord, Lord True, what labelling would be required for goods. I will quote from Hansard:

“My Lords, I will write to the noble Lord on his very specific point about labelling.”—[Official Report, 12/11/20; col. 1141.]


I have not had a response. I reminded the Minister’s office on 30 November and had a courteous reply from his private secretary, saying that the letter had been commissioned and that he would chase it. I still have not received it. It is not only businesses that are not getting answers but parliamentarians.

We knew that there would be no contingency arrangements for Northern Ireland in the event of no deal when the Government made their announcement earlier this year about some of the potential new checks that would be put in place, plus the new infrastructure and new costs on business. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, indicated, we know that there are no contingency arrangements in place for Northern Ireland when the Prime Minister comes to prepare for no deal, so all these questions are valid.

Regarding the rest of the UK and the announcement from the Commission today regarding contingencies, we will potentially have what is often euphemistically referred to as an Australian deal. But even Australia and the EU have an air agreement and a number of agreements that do not require contingencies to be put in place in just a matter of days’ time. The Commission said that the United Kingdom would be subject to these arrangements if they are equivalent. I quote the Commission’s paper:

“These arrangements would be subject to the United Kingdom conferring equivalent rights to air carriers from the Union, as well as providing strong guarantees on fair competition and on the effective enforcement of these rights and guarantees.”


That is the same for air, haulage operators and others.

Will the Government give such equivalent rights, so that if we are to prepare for the worst we can at the very least ensure that there is equivalence for the contingency arrangements that will be in place? That will remove at least one element of confusion on top of other burdens and costs that businesses will have to face in just a few days’ time.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)]

My Lords, there was a very large number of questions there, but most appeared to be in the “dissatisfied” column. I know the House finds this not particularly pleasant to hear, but the United Kingdom Government have made it clear for a very long time that we would not accept an agreement that did not recognise the decision of the people of United Kingdom twice to vote for a sovereign separation from the European Union which should involve our right to control our laws, our borders and our waters.

I infer from the noble Baroness’s remarks that the Labour Party would accept a deal that would not provide us with control of our borders, our laws and our fish because the line she put forward was effectively “agreement at any cost”. We are working tirelessly to get a deal. The Prime Minister made that clear. As I said, we have been clear from the outset that we cannot accept a deal at any cost. As has been made clear this week, there are still differences between the two parties. To repeat what I just said, we cannot accept a deal that will compromise control of our money, our laws, our borders and our fish.

I say in response to both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord that we have been preparing for a long time for all contingencies. We have discussed matters with the devolved Administrations, businesses and affected partners. We have issued advice on a border control operating scheme. We have issued advice to various sectors in Northern Ireland. We are engaged in constant discussions and meetings with those who will potentially be affected. We are also preparing for an Australian-style outcome if necessary. We have invested £705 million in jobs, technology and infrastructure at the border, and provided substantial grants to boost the customs intermediary sector and so on.

The majority of the changes, referring to the impact on businesses, will occur from 1 January 2021 regardless of whether a free trade agreement is made with the EU. Of course, I accept one could always do more to perfect communication, and we are investing an enormous amount of resources to get the case over, to reach businesses and to reach those affected. We are absolutely committed to ensuring businesses have all the information they need to get ready. But I was not sure if the noble Lord was objecting to the idea of phasing the introduction of some arrangements. We believe that that is a sensible and pragmatic approach.

On security, we see no reason why security arrangements should be seriously affected. There is a common interest for all the countries in Europe in relation to security.

On labelling, I may be misremembering, but I believe I wrote to the noble Lord on 30 November with a detailed answer to his question on labelling. If he has not received the letter, I apologise, but I am informed by my office that it was sent.

I was also asked about supermarkets. It is not only supermarkets that we wish to help with the new trader assistance approach; we will reach beyond large operators, but the grace period is offered to supermarkets.

It was implied that EU officials will be issuing directions to United Kingdom staff, but I can assure the House that that is not the case. The House is constantly asking the Government to honour the terms of the protocol, and as the House knows, within the protocol, the EU has the right to ensure and see that matters are being appropriately conducted. But that has never meant, and will never mean, that the EU necessarily has to have an office, embassy or mission building in Belfast. I stand by the comments I and other Ministers have made.

On the announcement today of a new deal for Northern Ireland, the £400 million is on top of other resources announced for assistance with making preparations. So, there is no double counting there; this is new resource.

As far as debates are concerned, both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord will understand that that is a matter for usual channels. There will be another Statement on Monday, I believe, but I hear the noble Lord’s comment about a wider debate. However, he will understand that limited time is available.

Looking at the clock, I am not sure whether I am bound by the 20 minute-rule. Last time I went on after 20 minutes, I was told I should not have done. I cannot get used to the rules of the hybrid House. I thought I should answer the noble Baroness first; I in no way meant to belittle the noble Lord on the Liberal Democrat Benches.

Of course, I reject absolutely the general comments about the United Kingdom Government’s stance and the accusatory remarks made about the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister has been candid, on the one hand, about our position. In a negotiation, each side needs to understand the other’s position. The purported subject of the Statement repeated to the House—the Joint Committee agreement on the Northern Ireland protocol—is a good example of pragmatic co-operation. So, there is evidence that the United Kingdom Government are prepared to seek agreement and negotiate in good faith.

The position, I am afraid to say, does remain, as has been made clear on innumerable occasions—this is not a change or a novelty—that we simply are asking the EU, with the greatest respect, to accept free trade agreement arrangements with us that are similar to those it has agreed with other nations around the world. We do not think that that is an unreasonable request or aspiration. We also ask that they respect and understand the decision of the British people that they wish to have—I make no apology for using the word—sovereign control of their laws, their borders and their waters.

I believe a pragmatic and good outcome is the main burden of this Statement in relation to the agreement on the Northern Ireland protocol. As far as the broader negotiations are concerned, those are continuing, albeit amid the candour on both sides about the difficulties that remain. Let us see how events turn out over the next few days.

Great Britain and Northern Ireland: Access for Goods

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 12th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I remind the noble Lord that the principle of unfettered access, and its legislative underpinning, was one of the key components of the re-formation of the Northern Ireland Executive. The UK Government are seeking to fulfil an obligation, and I regret very much that your Lordships, including the noble Lord, voted against it.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the sheer scale of the burden on businesses created by the wholly inadequate preparations for the wider border procedures by the Government was laid bare by the National Audit Office report on Friday. Regarding Northern Ireland, food and drink producers still do not yet know whether goods going to Northern Ireland will have to have EU labels, UK labels or both. Can the Minister be clear, with six weeks to go, what labels will food and drinks going to Northern Ireland from GB have to have, UK or EU? What contingency procedures are in place if the Government cannot be clear to businesses?

EU: Non-financial Services

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I do not have in my brief the precise figure that the noble Baroness has asked for, so, as I promised earlier in relation to another question, I will write to her with that. The Government’s overall objective is to sustain, develop and increase the viability of our magnificent non-financial services and creative services.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, information on the Department for International Trade website that I accessed this morning shows that we have made agreements with countries representing only 8% of UK trade in goods and services. If we ended the year on that basis, it would be catastrophic for the British economy, as I am sure the Minister would agree. What is the Government’s target for the amount of trade that we will be doing with the world under free trade agreements—if indeed the Government have a target at all?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s target is to seek friendly agreements with the widest possible range of nations, including the European Union, and I am confident that the figure that the noble Lord cites will be greatly exceeded by the end of the year.

Covid-19: Debt Collection

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 23rd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

I fear that I referred to “Neanderthal” to mean the age-old days when I was young but, certainly, part of the call for evidence and part of the appropriate and proper management of debt would be reflection on experience since that time. I can only repeat that my colleagues in MHCLG have said that they will update their guidance to councils on collection and enforcement.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

What lessons have the Government learned from the progressive reforms that have been made in Scotland on the use of sheriff officers, the equivalent of bailiffs in England, by local authorities for debt collection and, more recently, the Bankruptcy and Debt Advice (Scotland) Act 2014, which have made major strides in restoring dignity and support for people in repaying debt and have proved to be more effective for the public purse? Will the Government make sure that it is not just a call for evidence but a proper review of those other examples from across the United Kingdom?

[Lord True]

My Lords, I am sure that all those experiences will inform things going forward. I am a strong proponent of local authorities working together and pooling experience. I would say that this Government have acted consistently over a period in seeking to improve management of debt centrally with a code of practice, government debt standards and fairness principles. It is a constant learning curve from which we can all learn—we all have a duty to govern and manage sensitively and I take the noble Lord’s point on that.

EU Exit: End of Transition Period

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, on the absolute specifics of what the noble Lord raises, which is an important issue, it would probably be better if I provide him with a detailed reply in writing.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, on 27 February a noble Lord, Lord True—I believe it was the same one—was asked in the House about concerns that there would be friction for business in imports and exports. He said that the Government hoped that any friction

“will be minimal or non-existent”.—[Official Report, 27/2/20; col. 286.]

Now that we know that 150,000 companies are likely to have over £200 million in export declarations, why does he believe that that noble Lord, Lord True, was so wrong? If the Minister does not accept the HMRC assessment of business costs—his own document says that HMRC is responsible for business trade data—what is the Government’s information on the business costs of the procedures they are now putting in place?

[Lord True]

My Lords, I acknowledged in my response that there will be costs. I repeat what I said in the past —it is always pleasant to be reminded: the Government’s intention is that those be minimal. In the case mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, access from NI to GB should be unfettered. I have given a reason why we do not accept the high end-costs which have been suggested, and I stand by it.

Covid-19: Public Wealth Investment Fund

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton [V]]

Our first priority as a Government has been to try to protect the productive capacity of the economy, which is why we have one of the most generous furlough schemes in Europe. On the hospitality side, we have provided cash grants of £10,000 for properties with small rateable values of under £15,000, and cash grants of £25,000 for those with a rateable value of between £15,000 and £51,000. We will continue to monitor how the leisure sector recovers from this crisis.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

At the time of the Budget, the OBR forecast that taxpayer losses in the RBS had increased to £4.7 billion compared to the Government’s estimate of just two years ago. Would it not be better for British businesses across the UK to think more creatively about the use of our shares in RBS and to expand the role of the British Business Bank, established by Sir Vince Cable during the coalition, so that we can see the early stages of a genuine UK-wide investment wealth fund?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton [V]]

I agree with the noble Lord on the role of the British Business Bank, which has played an extremely important part in the economy over the last few years. It has given some £7 billion of finance to almost 95,000 SMEs and has been part of the distribution for much of the support over the last few months. We will continue to review the greater part that it can play.

Beyond Brexit (European Union Committee Report)

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, in our recent debate on economic forecasts, led by the Minister, we had three minutes in which to speak. At the time, the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, said from the Conservative Benches:

“This is not accountability. This is a sham. The sooner we return to normal proceedings, without the excessive time-limiting that has been introduced, the better.”—[Official Report, 5/5/20; col. 382.]


I agree with her, and in the limited time available, I want to address trade.

It does not protect our interests, or persuade others to align with them, to set aside pragmatic co-operation of the kind described by the former chairman in his speech. The Government have set this aside, and instead our future EU and global trading relationship are highlighted by glib self-deception. In January, at the UK-Africa Investment Summit, the Prime Minister told the bemused African delegates that after Brexit, chicken from Northern Ireland would be enjoyed in Angola and Ugandan beef would be on UK lunch tables. Portugal, Belgium, Italy and Spain all already export meat to Angola and Ugandan beef cannot be imported into the UK because of health standards.

For the US discussions in March, the Prime Minister said that we would be trading salmon for Stetsons while ignoring the recent restrictions on processed fish imports announced by the American Administration. These are the glib elements and no doubt have some comic effect, but they are illustrative and speak to a greater truth. Moreover, they are noticed by the EU and by the rest of the world. The self-deception is that such new trading outside the European Union, reflecting growth of less than 0.1% of UK GDP over a 15-year period, is believed to offset, according to the OBR, a 4.7% reduction in productivity because of disruption to our main trading bloc.

After the economic forecasting debate, the Minister did not answer or write to me about to my four simple questions, so I will try again. What is the Government’s core assumption about the impact on UK trade from January 2020 of their current EU policy, taking into context all new agreements made? Without honesty and openness, we will never protect our interests or align others to them—nor by replacing pragmatism with a politics in which one is influenced only by other acolytes. That is not a future that will benefit our country.