Marriage and Civil Partnership (Minimum Age) Bill

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

3rd reading
Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, on a very significant Bill. With my other hats on, as a family magistrate and youth magistrate, I do see the impact of children getting married. It is highly to be desired that this Bill be passed, and I congratulate her on the work she has done and also the many organisations that have been campaigning on this issue for many years.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, this Bill started its journey almost a year ago with its introduction in the House of Commons on 16 June 2021. It has received cross-party support and I am absolutely delighted to be here today for its Third—and final—Reading. Many people have worked hard to ensure the success of the Bill. I thank my noble friend Lady Sugg for taking it through the Lords and Pauline Latham MP for taking it through the other place. I know they both worked closely with Minister Pursglove, Minister Maclean and their teams of officials to ensure a smooth passage. Although the Bill began its journey last year, the change in law that it brings has been an aspiration for many years, especially for groups campaigning on this issue. I thank them, too, for their passion and courage in seeing this come to pass.

Today we have a chance to make history and see child marriage finally come to an end in England and Wales. We have the opportunity further to safeguard the futures of our children and set an example that we hope will be followed by the rest of the world. Its anticipated incoming is important and far-reaching; I confirm with great pleasure that the Government are supporting it and I commend it to the House

Approved Premises (Substance Testing) Bill

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

3rd reading
Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I too would like to welcome this Bill imminently passing. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Sater, for the work she has done on this Bill and I also thank her honourable friend Rob Butler. It may be of interest to noble Lords that both the noble Baroness, Lady Sater, and Rob Butler were youth magistrates with me in London, so I know them both well.

This is an important Bill. Approved premises should be drug free. Drug types are changing all the time, and the Government and the approved premises themselves need the flexibility to make sure that the premises are as drug free as possible. I congratulate the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I start by congratulating my noble friend Lady Sater on her excellent work bringing forward this Bill and navigating it to this stage. I also thank my honourable friend Rob Butler MP, who introduced the Bill in the other place.

The Bill will play an important role in helping us to tackle illegal drug use, cut crime and save lives. In December last year, we published our cross-government drugs strategy, which represents an ambitious 10-year commitment to work across government to address illegal drug use, including increased and enhanced drug testing in prisons and approved premises. The measures set out in this Bill will help us understand and react quickly to the changing patterns of drug misuse that exist in approved premises and ensure that staff in them can respond effectively and implement the necessary treatment and care planning. This Bill will ensure consistency of testing and treatment from prison to the community and will be vital in ensuring that approved premises are safe and drug free. Once again, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Sater, as well as Ministry of Justice officials, for their hard work in getting the Bill to this stage. I am pleased to reiterate the Government’s support and look forward to seeing this important legislation on the statute book.

Youth Justice Statistics

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Thursday 10th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

The noble and learned Lord is absolutely right, and that is exactly what the Government, and particularly the Ministry of Justice, are doing. We are looking at the report and putting in place pilot schemes in particular, as well as other measures, to make sure that we are tackling this problem, which we understand is of great concern.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I remind the House that I sit as a youth magistrate in London. I am in no doubt that the noble Baroness has sensed the exasperation of the previous questioners. In February 2021, the Justice Committee published the report Children and Young People in Custody. The Government responded to this in April 2021, listing the various measures they had already taken—but they did not include a timetable setting out how they would implement the remainder of the recommendations that have not yet been implemented. When will the Government publish such a timetable?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord and thank him for the work that he does with the magistrates’ service. The Youth Custody Service has refreshed equality plans across its establishments, providing effective practice briefings and training, with a focus on diversity and inclusion. The Youth Custody Service has also put in place a project to improve recruitment and promotion opportunities for ethnic minority staff, and it is embedding a diverse leadership model. So, as noble Lords can see, we are working on it, and I will certainly write to the noble Lord and give him an idea of the timescale for delivery.

Youth Justice System

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right: we need to keep an eye on timings and where these communities are. However, we also need to make sure that we do everything we possibly can through education and support to make sure that children do not come into the system in the first place.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the backlog in the national referral mechanism was growing before the first lockdown and has grown at a faster rate during the past year. How long can youths and youth courts expect to wait for an NRM review, and does the Minister agree that excessive waits are not in the interests of justice or of the youths concerned?

Covid-19: Prisoners and Children in Custody

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I am afraid I cannot give that much detail to the noble Baroness. All I can say is that we are testing and using PPE more and more in prisons. I will write to the noble Baroness about the specific issues that she raised.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the total number of prisoners who have tested positive for coronavirus has more than doubled in the month of October. The latest figures for November are not yet complete, but are likely to show a further increase. Do the Government believe that the only way to contain the spread of the virus is to keep prisoners locked in their cells? Surely a better approach would be for the Ministry of Justice to prioritise its own targets to increase headroom across the prison estate?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I think I have answered about prisoners staying many hours in their cells, but it is important that we continue to test prisoners and staff and are able to compartmentalise prisoners so that they are safe and secure. As public health information comes forward and we can do more in prisons, we will make sure that both prisoners and staff are safe and well.

Criminal Justice: Imprisonment for Public Protection

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

As I have previously answered, the Government are carefully considering the recommendations in the report—it came out only on 3 December—and we will look at those recommendations for the future.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister seems to be defending the recall of prisoners when they breach their licensing conditions. As the report has shown, this is a source of an increasing number of prisoners on IPP sentences being recalled for breaching their licence conditions. Is the Minister satisfied that there needs to be a positive review of this way back into the prison sentence, given that the offenders who are recalled are very often mentally unstable and need protection as much as they are offending criminals?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, public protection has to be the Government’s priority. We recall only those IPP offenders who are assessed by those managing them to present an unacceptably high risk of harm to the general public. However, of course, we need to look after them, support them, and try to help them to stay out in our communities safely.

Royal Commission on Criminal Justice

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Monday 9th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, our thanks go out to the hard-working professionals across the criminal justice system. The Government have published a comprehensive criminal courts recovery plan to tackle the impact of Covid-19 and are boosting the capacity across the justice system. We are fully using our judicial resources including recorders, deputy district judges in magistrates’ courts and magistrates in court recovery. Our courts remain open during the second national lockdown and we will continue to work more flexibly than ever to tackle the backlog and mitigate the impact of the pandemic on our justice system.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, on 22 May at the Justice Select Committee, the Lord Chief Justice, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Burnett, said that his understanding was that the royal commission would be on the criminal justice process, rather than criminal justice itself. I interpret that to mean that it would include out-of-court decisions, out-of-court disposals and pre-charge disposals. Given that a huge amount of crime never gets anywhere near a court, can the Minister confirm that the review will look at the large number of cases that never get into the courts system?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I reiterate that we cannot announce anything today about the royal commission. However, I can, once again, say that a team of officials has been established. It is working on the scope and the terms of reference as well as options for the chair and the commissioners.

Prisoners (Disclosure of Information About Victims) Bill

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Consideration of Commons amendments & Ping Pong (Hansard) & Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 3rd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for what she has said today and for the way the Government have encouraged cross-party support for the various elements of the Bill. The Minister spoke further about the testing opt-out system which will be trialled.

I also pay tribute to the campaigning of Marie McCourt and the other families who have been victims of serious offences. The campaigns, which will be partially successful today, will make a significant difference to the lives of victims’ families for generations to come; these campaigns, like Marie McCourt’s, did so in the knowledge that their own situation would not be materially affected or improved by this Bill. They did it to save others from the torment they have endured. I am very grateful to them.

The first part of this Bill forces the Parole Board to consider the non-disclosure of information during release decisions for people convicted of murder or manslaughter and the failure to give the names of victims of sexual assault or the distribution of indecent images. This Bill puts into law what has been the current operating practice of the Parole Board. We are very clear that the withholding of this information is an ongoing form of control and abuse by the perpetrators, of which the family and friends are victims.

To paraphrase the Minister, this Bill is one step, but a significant one, on the road to properly addressing the systemic challenges faced by victims in our criminal justice system. We in the Opposition look forward to a more comprehensive approach to ensuring victims are at the heart of the processes which convict and punish the guilty and release offenders when they have served their time.

I thank my noble friend Lady Kennedy. She won her amendments in this House at an earlier stage of the Bill, which were then reversed in the Commons. The intent of her amendments was to put victims on a more even footing with offenders. In that sense, she was successful. We heard that the Minister thinks that some of the intentions can be met in other ways; we accept that, although we look forward to a wider context in which victims’ rights will be addressed.

My noble friend Lady Kennedy told me on several occasions that she was very inexperienced in the ways in which the House of Lords worked, but I was never deceived by her. I knew she was a very experienced political operator, and she has played a blinder in this Bill. She has worked across parties and across the Houses, and has been an advocate for the victims’ families. I thank her for the work she has done on this Bill.

Today’s legislation, plus the undertakings we have heard from the Minister, show that sometimes it is best to co-operate with the Government. All those who participated on this Bill, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, have done so in a spirit of co-operation from which we have all benefited. I am glad this Bill is soon to receive Royal Assent. It is one step along the road, but a significant one. It has shown Parliament working at its best.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I reiterate my thanks to the noble Baronesses, Lady Kennedy and Lady Barker, and others who brought this amendment for supporting what the Government are doing. I know that they will continue to make sure it works in future.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, brought up the trials that some police forces are doing. I do not think their results will be released, but we know that really positive reports are coming out of them, with, as I said before, increased numbers of referrals but also higher numbers of victims enrolling in the scheme, which is good news. If there are any results, I will make sure that the noble Baroness receives a copy of them. She also asked about the tracing of the opt-ins. I have not heard about any tracing; I will go back to the department and ask, but it is not something we have traced. It is quite difficult when somebody says “No” to keep asking, “Why not?” or “Do you want to?”. However, I will make sure she gets that information as well.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, very much for bringing up Marie McCourt and the families, as other noble Lords have done. She has worked tirelessly for this Bill, and we thank her. I also put on record my thanks to one or two other noble Lords who raised really important issues under the Bill, including the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, for their positive engagements on mental capacity. Once again, I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and the signatories to her amendment for raising these important concerns about the victim contact. Finally, the House should recognise—and I recognise—Marie McCourt, Helen McCourt’s mother, for her tireless campaign.

Online Harms: Intimate Images

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Wednesday 28th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, the police and the courts are well equipped to deal with those who share or threaten to share intimate images, both online and offline. Perhaps the most significant development in this area was the creation of the revenge porn offence, which came into effect in 2005. That has a maximum prison sentence of two years. Since 2005, more than 700 people have been put in prison because of that law.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, surely the Minister agrees that all the questions raised today are very likely to be raised again when we have the Domestic Abuse Bill. That Bill is a suitable and very current vehicle with which to address those issues. Therefore, can the Minister undertake to look positively at any amendments tabled so that these scourges to our society—particularly to young women—can be addressed?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I have already given that undertaking. The Government will look at all the amendments to the Domestic Abuse Bill put forward.

Prisons: Remand

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

Wednesday 21st October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right. I thank him for his work with the National Youth Theatre and Music Masters, which does a lot of work with disadvantaged young people. The alliance has 900 organisations as members, which undertake successful arts projects with both sentenced offenders and those on remand. Covid has curtailed some of its work but we hope that it will get back to working hard in our prisons very soon.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, all the questions that we have heard put to the Minister reflect the very serious situation that we are seeing in our courts. Both sentenced prisoners and those on remand are spending 23 hours a day in their cells, and noble Lords have drawn attention to an increase in self-harm in both the male and female estates. Does the Minister agree that there should be greater access to telephones and video contact arrangements for prisoners and their families? Of course such arrangements should be appropriately monitored so that no more abuse is perpetuated, but greater contact would help prisoners in their rehabilitation.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I agree. We have done a lot in the Prison Service since the beginning of this pandemic to exactly that end. There is already a greater use of iPads and telephones.

Prisoners (Disclosure of Information About Victims) Bill

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Scott of Bybrook

3rd reading & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 8th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I echo the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. I know that she spoke to Marie McCourt and informed the earlier stages of the debate. We are dealing with families in the most unimaginably tragic situation and Marie McCourt has shown tremendous endurance over decades to get this legislation on the statute book and for recognition of the turmoil that families in that position go through.

My noble friend Lady Kennedy has been very active in this matter, and I would like to put on record my thanks to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, who has been very receptive to the amendment that will be considered in another place and who has had a follow-up meeting to consider other matters that may be taken further. We are grateful to him and for the cross-party approach that this Bill has seen in this House.

As was mentioned by the Minister, other aspects of mental capacity were investigated further, if I can put it like that, at earlier stages of the Bill by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and others. The Parole Board will have to take a very difficult decision when looking at the reason why this information has been withheld, whether it is because of mental capacity, vindictiveness or as a power play. These are very difficult decisions for the Parole Board to make but it is right that victims’ families are fully informed about the process that the Parole Board is going through and that there are active and statutorily based steps for the Parole Board to make sure that those families are properly informed. I thank the Minister for supporting this legislation.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I thank the noble Lords who have spoken. I too express my great sympathy for Marie McCourt, who has fought a tireless campaign over a number of years to see justice done for her daughter Helen.