Government Debt

Debate between Lord Pitt-Watson and Lord Barber of Chittlehampton

Wednesday 16th September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pitt-Watson (Lab)]

I do not have those figures offhand. I could write to the noble Lord but I think they are publicly available.

[Lord Barber of Chittlehampton (Lab)]

My Lords, generating growth is the key to paying off interest and reducing the debt. The Government are doing good work on that across the economy. I hope that they will not forget public sector productivity as part of generating growth. As a Government, we spend £3.5 billion every day. Is the Minister encouraging the Treasury to focus on getting value for every one of those tax pounds?

[Lord Pitt-Watson (Lab)]

My noble friend Lord Barber is absolutely correct on this; indeed, he has huge expertise in the area. Too often all of us, from all parties, announce inputs and do not think about outputs. On the question of public sector productivity, I am not even sure that we measure outputs correctly.

United Kingdom: Business Competitiveness

Debate between Lord Pitt-Watson and Lord Barber of Chittlehampton

Tuesday 1st September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pitt-Watson (Lab)]

One swallow does not make a summer, but the UK’s growth was number one among G7 countries in the first half of this year and the previous year had record productivity. Dismissing that and saying that growth is not taking place misses the evidence that we are beginning to see. What do we intend to do on this? We intend to follow the policies that have been working: the industrial policy, the planning reforms, the new sources of finance, being sensible about government accounting so that capital is not discouraged, fiscal credibility and good trade deals.

[Lord Barber of Chittlehampton (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate my good and noble friend on his appointment to this job, which is a wonderful thing for the country as well as for him. On growth, does he agree that, while the amount of tax is obviously important, so too is the effectiveness with which the tax is spent? Will he bring this perspective to his dealings with Treasury officials?

[Lord Pitt-Watson (Lab)]

Of course that is absolutely right: the money coming through the Treasury needs to be spent as well as it possibly can be. The delivery of public services, particularly in support of activities that are so critical for business—our universities, for example—is a central part of doing our job properly.