EU Council June 2014

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Monday 30th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My noble friend is right to point us towards that paragraph which contains a number of important points. Her point about the European Council considering the process for the appointment of the President of the European Commission is set out in the way that she says. As it happens, that paragraph also says,

“the European Council noted that the concept of ever closer union allows for different paths of integration for different countries, allowing those that want to deepen integration to move ahead, while respecting the wish of those who do not want to deepen any further”.

That is quite a significant addition to the kind of wording one typically sees in these conclusions. That, in itself, is part of the answer to the point about the influence that Britain is still able to have. On some of my noble friend’s more specific points, if there is anything further I can say about the Select Committee, perhaps I will talk to her about that subsequently.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that it is hard to find a normal person who knows why Mr Juncker’s job is so important? Might it create public support for the Government’s EU reforms if they were to reveal the unelected Commission’s role, with its monopoly to propose and execute all EU law and to issue regulations which are binding in all EU countries? Or could it be that the Government share the BBC’s fear that, if the British people understood just how irrelevant this their Parliament has become, and how rotten and anti-democratic the EU really is, their clamour to leave it might become irresistible? If our leaving the EU leads to its collapse, so what? What is the point of it now? One can see the point of NATO, the United Nations and the World Trade Organisation, but what is the point of the EU? Can the noble Lord tell us that?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

Not in the time that we have available, when I know a lot of other noble Lords want to get in. It clearly is an important job, and that is why we were determined to try to make sure that the process for appointing the person followed the approaches that we thought were set out in the treaties. However, the Government’s position is not the same as that of UKIP. The Prime Minister intends to work extremely hard over the next three years to try to negotiate a package of measures that he will feel confident in putting to the British people in a referendum, which we aim to hold before the end of 2017.

G7

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Thursday 12th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

That was meant as a compliment, my Lords. Obviously the way the noble Lord explained the recent change in the process was correct. However, I come back to the point that the Prime Minister felt that he needed to argue from a position of principle in relation to the approval process and the kind of person one should look for. I am sure that the noble Lord’s successors and others made the same arguments about how to go about doing it. The Prime Minister thought that the right way forward was to set out his case and argue for it.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, on Ukraine, what assessment did the Government make of President Putin’s offer in 2010 to set up a free trade area from Lisbon to Vladivostok? Would that not have been the way forward? Do the Government think that the EU was wise to reply by instead offering Georgia, Moldova, Armenia and Ukraine free trade and association agreements, with their defence implications for the road to NATO, when Russia had been saying for years that it could not tolerate Crimea coming under the sphere of influence of Brussels or NATO? So, was it not the EU’s specific later offer to Ukraine that sparked the unfortunate situation in that country? If, as I suspect, the noble Lord replies that Russia’s annexation of Crimea was illegal under international law, would he care to comment on the legality of our disastrous invasion of Iraq, when at least China and France were against it in the Security Council?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I simply do not accept the underlying point that I suspect the noble Lord makes—namely, that the current travails in Ukraine and Crimea were caused by the EU. If one is looking to attribute blame—if that is the right word—for recent behaviour, it is far more straightforward to consider the illegal and unrecognised referendum in Crimea, the other action that was taken and the support given to people to destabilise it than to lay the blame on the EU. I note the wish expressed by the people of Ukraine to have a closer relationship with countries in the West, which was restated in the recent election.

European Council and Nuclear Security Summit

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I can tell my noble friend that those lessons are being taken on board, which is why the range of measures that has been taken has been taken. The Government have sought a balanced and phased response to the situation as it has developed, ratcheting up the pressure over time as necessary. On the build-up to the current situation—what happened at which point—the truth is that it developed extremely quickly, and the EU and others have had to respond equally quickly as it has developed. However, I understand the burden of my noble friend’s points; that is why NATO and the security that it can offer are so important in this context.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, further to the answer that the noble Lord has just given, is it not true that Russia had made clear for years that it could not and would not tolerate Crimea coming under the sphere of influence of the European Union? Was Brussels therefore wise to offer Ukraine an eastern association agreement, complete with defence aspects? Surely the EU has thus caused the present crisis, and not Russia.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I know that the noble Lord is often ready to blame the EU for a whole range of matters. However, it is hard to argue in this case that the situation that has developed, with the aggression shown by Russia and its breaking of international treaties freely entered into in the past, can be laid at the door of the EU.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, was not in the Chamber for the Statement that was given by the Minister at the beginning. It is therefore a bit rich that he should come in.

Gibraltar

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Monday 20th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, is on his feet, perhaps we can hear briefly from him and then hear from the noble Lord, Lord Pearson.

Banking: Regulation

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Thursday 11th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, while it is absolutely true that—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

Forgive me. If we could hear from the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, then we will hear from my noble friend Lady Kramer.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that his answer to the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, does not quite stack up in view of Written Answers from the previous Government on 21 July 2009, at col. 365 of the Official Report, which confirmed that they had passed overall supervision of our banks and financial institutions to Brussels? Given that the EU has not had its own accounts signed off for 17 years, and given that it deeply dislikes the City of London, was this wise and how do we get out of it?

European Council and Afghanistan

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

The noble Baroness will not be surprised to know that I do not have those percentages in my head, but I will see what I can find out about them and I will write to her about whatever I uncover. There has been progress in the way that she said in drawing attention to those figures. She is right to draw attention to the guarantees and commitments about the future and the right of women to vote and participate in elections. All I am able to say is that I know that we are giving as much encouragement and support as we can to make sure that that process goes forward before the elections. For those who, like her, want to make sure that that situation persists in the future, the most powerful lever is the £4 billion of aid that outside countries give to Afghanistan, but we would all be foolish if we were to pretend that there was a simple thing that we could do to guarantee it. Like her, the Government are very concerned, and I know that the Foreign Office and DfID are doing everything they can to argue in the way that I know the noble Baroness would expect them to argue.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, does not hope attempt to triumph yet again over experience in this Statement? The Prime Minister says:

“we agreed to scrap unnecessary EU regulation that ties up our businesses in red tape when they should be growing and creating jobs”.

He goes on to announce the setting up of yet another business task force,

“to take a fresh and ambitious look at the impact of EU regulation on our companies”,

and so on.

What does the noble Lord say about the need for unanimity among all 28 members before we can retrieve a comma from the treaties of Rome, let alone a regulation or a power already ceded? I have written a few of those on the back of an envelope. What does this do for immigration, rubbish collection, post offices, light bulbs, car premiums, working time, our fishing industry, and financial supervision for the ruin of the City of London? Is this not just more wishful thinking, which is completely meaningless while we stay in the European Union?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, is the voice of experience, I will have to be the voice of hope. I take his point that one has to keep grinding away at these things over a long period of time. History suggests that, as was the case with our rebate negotiations, one has to keep on battling away.

On the point about reducing regulations, this was agreed, I think, in the Council back in March. Some small progress has been made by the Commission. However, the Prime Minister was very clear that the process was not as fast or as extensive as he would like, which is why he made another charge at the Council last week. I think it is worth setting up our own task force—I probably share some of the noble Lord’s scepticism about all sorts of task forces everywhere—to try to come up with some ideas of our own to show the way, looking specifically at the effect of regulations, how they might be reduced and how that might lead to more jobs, particularly in the context of young unemployed people, as we discussed earlier.

Women: Board Membership

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Monday 17th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gould of Potternewton]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, I think there is time for both if we have the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, very quickly and then Labour.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, as a supporter of women on boards, I have to ask whether we really need the edict from Brussels which—

Woolwich and the EU Council

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Monday 3rd June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

The noble Lord raises two very pertinent points, both in terms of schools—madrassahs—and universities, where there are clearly issues. It is right that the task force set up will want to talk to community leaders about these things, and I am sure that it will want to look into the kind of broad issues to which the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, refers.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

The Statement says that the murder of Drummer Rigby was a “betrayal of Islam”, and that there is nothing in Islam which justifies acts of terror. However, since 9/11 some 107,000 people have been killed and some 174,000 injured, most of them Muslim, in many thousands of attacks, the perpetrators of which claim Islam and the Koran as their inspiration. In my Oral Question this afternoon, therefore, I asked the Government whether they would encourage a gathering of great Islamic clerics—the grand muftis and the ulema—to agree to issue a fatwa against the jihadists, to cast them out of Islam and to declare that they are no longer Muslim. I regret to say that the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, failed to answer that Question. Would the Leader of the House now care to do so? Surely this huge problem can be cured only from within the Muslim community.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

It is clearly the case, as the noble Lord says, that the Muslim community needs to be very closely involved in everything we do to address this problem. In many of these cases, particularly in the recent case of poor Lee Rigby, it is encouraging that the Muslim community has been very clear in its condemnation of what happened. I am not sure that it is within my gift, powerful though the Leader of the House is in theory, to convene a global gathering of muftis. I find it hard enough to convene a gathering of three or four Peers in your Lordships’ House. However, I am sure that my noble friend Lady Warsi will have heard the noble Lord’s point again.

Climate Change

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Thursday 25th April 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, I am sorry, it should be the noble Lord, Lord Pearson. If we have some quick questions and answers, I hope that we will come back.

European Council

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Monday 11th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

On my noble friend’s second question, I will need to see whether I can provide better particulars on how the figures break down, and what the basis is for the speculation that my noble friend saw—whether it is to do with the energy elements of environment funds through the CAP, for example. I am not sure about that, so I will see what I can do. On his general point, I could not agree more. This outcome shows that Britain was far from marginalised and isolated in the negotiations. It also shows that the pessimistic view held by some that Britain is doomed to fail, and therefore should not go into negotiations with a strong position trying to win others round to our point of view, is entirely wrong.

I remember that many years ago when I was working for the then Prime Minister, John Major, there were similar views to the effect that Britain would never be able to win an opt-out of the single currency or an opt-out of the Social Chapter, but in fact those were both successfully achieved. Similarly on this occasion, there were people looking forward with eager anticipation in the expectation that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister would not be able to secure Britain’s interests. In fact, he has; I agree with my noble friend that by being clear in one’s objectives and by assembling alliances—in this case, with the Germans, the Swedes, the Dutch and the Danish—it is perfectly possible for Britain to secure its objectives, and it will continue to be so.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I hope it will not ruin the Prime Minister’s day if I offer congratulations on a small step in the right direction. However, I think he is going a bit far when he describes the present situation as “a good deal for taxpayers”. Could the noble Lord tell us what this country’s gross and net contributions now become? In 2012, our gross contribution was some £22 billion, of which we got back around £11 billion, so our net contribution was £11 billion a year. That represents the salaries of 1,000 nurses at £30,000 a year every day, which we never see again. Therefore, I still have to query whether this whole arrangement is anything but a disastrous deal for British taxpayers.

More importantly, perhaps, is it true that the European so-called Parliament is going to vote on this new proposal in secret? If so, does that not nicely confirm the nature of this animal? What happens if the EU Parliament votes this down? Do we go back to some 2% inflation per annum for the next seven years? Could he enlighten us on that before we get too overwhelmed by the Prime Minister’s success?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I shall do my best to calm the House down, my Lords. I noticed that in the space of the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, he went from expressing concern about causing my right honourable friend the Prime Minister an anxiety attack by praising him, to rescinding that praise by the end.

On the cost to the British taxpayer, clearly, so far as the negotiation was concerned, the fact that the Prime Minister managed to end up with a credit card limit that was so many billions of euros lower than had been initially proposed is a cause of some modest satisfaction to the British taxpayer. That cost would have been lower if a chunk of our rebate had not unfortunately been surrendered in those negotiations in 2005 in the hope, as I understand it, that there would then be a deal on the CAP: a deal that has not been forthcoming. That explains why, although the overall figures are considerably lower—and they do represent a real-terms cut, which is what everyone wanted—the cost to the taxpayer is nevertheless higher than one would like.

On the European Parliament, like the noble Lord I have read some of the speculation there has been about that. The European Parliament has a role to play in approving the budget, but our position is that that agreement was struck by the 27 member states that are responsible for finding the money. We believe that some of the situations that the noble Lord has invited me to speculate about will not come to pass, but we need to see what happens. I will not be drawn into his alluring hypothetical situations.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Thursday 31st January 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, first, I should say to my noble friend Lord Steel of Aikwood that I am well aware of the concerns he has expressed for a long time on this issue. Indeed, I was glad to have the opportunity to discuss them with him soon after I took over this post. If the House will allow me, I should say for the record that I am slightly disappointed that, in bringing forward his Motion, my noble friend did not discuss it with my noble friend the Chief Whip in the way that convention suggests. It is important that we observe the conventions because that is how this House operates. I feel that I should bring that to the attention of the House.

On the matters raised by my noble friend Lord Forsyth, we will be discussing those next week and I am sure that we will have a good opportunity to hear a range of views from all sides of the House. On the Government’s position generally on this important issue, that has not changed since the last time it was discussed in this House in terms of both future legislation and the position regarding the appointment of new Peers. As it has always been, it is for the Prime Minister to make recommendations to Her Majesty the Queen. That is how it has always been done in this House by both parties and how it was done with great vigour by Mr Blair. It is the situation that exists now.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us where the Prime Minister and the Government stand on their commitment to ensure that membership of your Lordships’ House more accurately reflects the votes cast in the previous general election? Does the noble Lord agree that that would give my party, the UK Independence Party, no fewer than 24 Peers, whereas at the moment we have three? Does the Prime Minister stand by this commitment or has he abandoned it?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I think we all feel that the value we get from the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, is worth at least 24 Peers. The position taken by the Government on this is set out clearly and has not changed. The Government’s view is that we should work over time more accurately to reflect the balance of Peers.

EU: Budget

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Thursday 17th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, I think that the House would like to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, first.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. Do the Government agree with the think tank, Open Europe, that only 46% of EU aid reaches really poor countries compared with 74% of our own aid? Have the Government worked out the cost of churning our aid through Brussels? Are we really incapable of controlling it all ourselves?

Disabled People: Access to School Examination System

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Hill of Oareford

Wednesday 21st December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, if the noble and learned Baroness would like to speak or write to me about that example, I shall see if there is anything that we can do to follow it up with the individual examination board. These are matters for the individual boards but I should be happy to pursue them.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, do the Government agree that special schools can be very important in encouraging pupils with a number of disabilities to reach their full ability? What are the Government doing to encourage special schools, where appropriate?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I think that the point underlying the noble Lord’s question is the extent to which the Government have a view as to whether they are trying to lean, as it were, on parents regarding whether their children should be educated in mainstream or special schools. Our general view on that is that one should seek to leave those decisions as much as possible with parents. There are some cases where parents are keen on their children being in mainstream schools, because they benefit from that; there are other cases where special provision is clearly the sensible way. We want to have both. We are trying to increase the establishment of new special schools as part of our free schools policy, and we will continue to do that.