Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 23rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I refer noble Lords to my interests as listed in the register and the published declarations therein.

I want to speak to Amendment 1, proposed by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, which relates to the directors supplying a list of creditors to the monitor. I supported this amendment in Committee. I have had the advantage of seeing the letter, shared with me by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and can see that my noble friend the Minister has gone some considerable way to allaying concerns by setting out proposals about inquiries that the monitor must make and the policing of the whole procedure by the Insolvency Service. I thank him very much for that. I think that that will be effective, and the letter was indeed very helpful. Like the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, I hope that it is shared with other noble Lords by placing a copy of it in the Library.

Perhaps I may touch briefly on something else that I spoke about in Committee. I voiced concern at the lack of any express provision in the Bill requiring the monitor to be independent of the company. The monitor is an officer of the court and is required to be a qualified person, defined as an “insolvency practitioner”. That is reassuring up to a point but there is no express condition that the monitor should be independent of the directors of the company who appoint the monitor; nor is there any provision in the legislation for challenge of an appointment. Perhaps the Minister can put on the record today, or in a letter subsequently, how he sees the professional bodies policing the independence requirement, in the same helpful way as he wrote to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, on the inquiries relating to the requirement for the listing of assets and liabilities.

Subject to that, I very much welcome the moves that the Government have made between Committee and Report. They have gone some considerable way to allaying concerns expressed in Committee.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD) [V]]

My Lords, this Bill, when enacted, will be the guide—even the bible—of the monitor. I agree with Amendment 14 and shall speak on it very briefly. My noble friends Lady Bowles and Lady Kramer have explained in detail the reasons for supporting and promoting the amendment, which, to remind noble Lords, would place a restriction on enforcement and legal proceeding, stating that banks and other financial creditors must not have an advantage.

My concern goes back to the philosopher Thucydides, who said something along the lines of “Words change their meaning”. What are “financial creditors”? What is “not having an advantage”? Sometimes the meaning is in the eye of the beholder or in the minute printing of the 240 pages of the Bill.

If Amendment 14 is agreed, as I hope it will be, I shall welcome the Minister’s assurance, at least for the record, that HMRC’s VAT debt, about which I spoke at least twice in earlier proceedings, will not be viewed as the debt of a financial creditor seeking yet more preferential terms. The Finance Bill 2019-21, which we have put aside and hardly mentioned during these debates, seeks to give preference to HMRC for VAT. This undermines the whole principle of this legislation, which I believe is, as the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, said, based on the idea that “We are all in it together”. If, even unintentionally, the banks or HMRC are given preference in the Finance Bill 2019-21, we will not all be in it together; some will be more equal than others.

Homelessness: Local Authority Spending

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Thursday 2nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

It is good to hear from the noble Lord. I pay tribute to what he does on the rough sleeping advisory committee; I know that he is doing very worthwhile work. There is much to commend PECC, as he says. Yesterday, I was in Redbridge, which is adopting Project Malachi, which we are helping to fund and which is connected with work. This sort of thing is the way forward. It is not the total answer, as I am sure the noble Lord will agree, but it certainly makes a big difference.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, could the Minister confirm that one of the real problems underlying the Question from my noble friend, which he replied to in terms of funding, is the massive cuts in local government funding since the coalition and the Labour Government? This has been seen in the last week with a large care home going into administration. Other care home firms have gone into administration. The main reason for that is the discounts on care home fees that local governments have to have. The care home’s financial plan therefore does not work because of the cuts in local government.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord refers to a particular area where there is certainly a problem: social care. We await the social care Green Paper, which will helpfully inform us in this particular area. He will acknowledge—as will many other noble Lords across the Chamber—that this year, for the first time in a long while, there has been an increase in local government core spending. It is welcome, and I hope it will continue as austerity comes to an end.

Meat: Ritual Slaughter and Religious Freedom

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Thursday 28th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate makes a relevant point about the general issue and about having a debate. A debate may well be something that we should have, although I find it difficult to have it on a question of this nature. I draw the right reverend Prelate’s attention to the report of the Equality and Human Rights Commission in 2015—some three years ago—which indicated a general satisfaction with the balance that we have at the moment. However, I accept that there are issues to be addressed and I personally would welcome such a debate.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, the organic farming of animals has nothing to do with religious slaughter. I take on board what the Minister has said but, when he goes round mosques and synagogues, how will he explain to the worshippers that this Government and this country have agreed with European legislation that is both illogical and unfair?

Tenant Fees Bill

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Monday 5th November 2018 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords who participated in the debate, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, for all the work they have done and continue to do in this area. As they will be aware—indeed, the noble Baroness was fair and set it out—I became aware of this problem only in the middle of last week. Since then we have met and, I think, moved things forward. I repeat that we will go away and look at this and carry on our engagement with the noble Baroness, ARLA and RICS. That remains the position. I want to reassure myself that we are being fair to all tenants over the protection of deposits. If that is the case, I will be reassured, but I want to go away and make sure that it is.

To reassure the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, in so far as money is held in custodial deposits, these will fall outside this cap and will not need insurance. I think I made this point when we met. We are taking this forward. In particular, we will not require the double deposits. That is entirely wrong. I can give that reassurance: we will not need cover for that.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

The Minister is emphasising the point that if the money held by these large organisations is in custodial deposits, there is no need for insurance. Therefore, this large sum is not necessary. I thank him.

Pittsburgh: Synagogue Attack

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Monday 29th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, there is no excuse for trying to justify or explain the Pittsburgh killings, and I echo the words spoken by other noble Lords. The Minister talked about physical protection from the Community Security Trust—but protection is surely also needed from those who condone and incite anti-Semitism in postings on social media. What is his response to that?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his contribution. He will be well aware that the whole House recognises the importance of tackling the issues arising from social media as they relate to hate crime across the piece and to anti-Semitism specifically. He will also be aware of the globalisation of that problem. The Government are resolute on this issue and my department, along with that of my noble friend Lady Williams, intends to proceed with it and to push harder to get concrete results.

Anti-Semitism

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Tuesday 26th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

As a Minister, I know quite a bit about answering the same question time and again, as noble Lords will be aware. Ultimately, this is a matter for individual noble Lords; it is not a matter for the Government. Obviously, noble Lords will need to declare interests, but if they do so, that is a matter for them.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, the IHRA definition clarifies that, when it comes to anti-Semitism by way of criticism of Israel, cases should be judged taking into account the overall context and may—rather than must—be anti-Semitic; and that,

“criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic”.

Does the Minister believe that this is sufficient to ensure freedom of speech?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right that there is obviously an important balance to be struck between freedom of speech and the definition of anti-Semitism. It is important that people bear in mind the definition of anti-Semitism, but ultimately all freedom of speech is constrained in some way. Nobody can go into a theatre and yell “Fire!”—unless there is a fire, of course—so noble Lords would be well advised when exercising the right of free speech to be aware of the parameters within which it is exercised.

Short-Term Holiday Lets

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the position regarding the short-term letting area of activity is that it is very much something that the Government encourage. We have a 90-day limit in London, while outside of London there is no restriction in the UK. It is something that operates totally within the law, but if there is a breach, the law should be enforced by the relevant agency. That agency is often but not always the local authority.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister concerned that setting up a register of holiday lets would further encourage more short-term lettings which, without long-term residency, can cause greater problems with anti-social behaviour, overcrowding, and the breaking of leases and insurance terms? That, I suggest, is the crux of the Question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner—the fact that short-term lets make for bad neighbours.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, like anything else, short-term lets have to operate within the law. I share the noble Lord’s belief that setting up a register would be of no assistance. Issues such as gas safety, fire safety and environmental protection all apply to short-term lets, just as they do to anything else.

Housing: Holiday Lets

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, the problem is enforcement, as the Minister rightly said. Westminster is probably the best example of an authority that uses the enforcement procedure, but most authorities do not use the enforcement procedure for the 90-day limit to which the Minister referred. The market has completely changed. Will the Minister also address the fact that holiday lets and Airbnb lets are now dealt with very much on a commercial basis, but in blocks of flats very often one person or one company owns all the flats and let them through Airbnb? It is not people just earning a buck or two on their own home.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I remind the noble Lord that of course this is a London issue. The 90-day limit applies only in London—and, significantly, it is a real issue only in the inner London boroughs. I am encouraging the Short Term Accommodation Association to speak to those boroughs—as indeed it is doing—to see if it can carry forward the process that it is engaged in with Westminster into the other boroughs. For example, it is developing a Considerate Nightly Letting Charter with Westminster Council—again, that could be replicated for other councils. I remind noble Lords that, where a local authority has a suspicion that the law is being breached, it can apply to the Secretary of State to restrict the 90-day power and can take enforcement action. There is the power there; it is for local authorities to do that.

Housing: Letting Agents

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Tuesday 31st October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend has raised this issue on occasion; I am grateful to her. She will be aware that there are considerable powers to proscribe bad landlords, which are exercised, and there are powers to fine them. We will bring in additional banning provisions before next April, which I am sure will please her. However, there is already a battery of powers with regard to poor landlords.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for confirming that the measure, which was really an enabling part of the legislation, will be introduced shortly. However, can he and his department also commit to putting real resources into enforcement to ensure that rogue letting agents are driven out of the market? Furthermore, will he take back to the Government the possibility of ring-fencing the fines and compliance costs so that, when those moneys are obtained by local authorities, they can be used for enforcement rather than for other matters?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, whom I know has done a lot of work on client money protection. I reiterate that the consultation will be forthcoming this week, along with the draft Bill on letting agents. The noble Baroness, Lady Grender, who is not in her place at present, has worked hard on that. We are concentrating resources on tackling bad landlords and are doing what we can to improve the market, which is important to us all.

Property Agents: Registration

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend. I anticipate that she will respond to the consultation and I encourage her to do so. On the housing court, I think my noble friend is in danger of running ahead of herself. We have not published any proposals on this, as yet. We are discussing the right way forward with the Ministry of Justice. That is work in progress. On rogue landlords, this April we introduced civil penalties of up to—from memory—£30,000.

I did notice that my noble friend had put down a number of Questions on local authorities, and we will of course respond to those. At the moment, local authorities have considerable powers in relation to the sort of activity she is talking about. And I note with relief that she did not push the issue of Airbnb today.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I draw the attention of the House to my entries in the register of interests. I was disappointed that, in the Minister’s repeating of the Statement and his answers to the questions, no mention was made of the latest growth business. In large blocks of flats with lots of leaseholders, leases are being sold to other companies whose business it is, at the earliest opportunity, to raise the ground rent on those leases, as well as service charges and the like. This is an incredible growth business. People are buying up blocks of leases with the intention of making life more intolerable for the lessees of those apartments.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that contribution. As he rightly says, it is not the subject of the Statement we heard today, but I will look at that matter and respond to him. I will ensure that a copy of my response is placed in the Library and copied to all noble Lords who participated in this Statement.

Leaseholders: Holiday Letting

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Tuesday 25th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the Government are not intent on interfering with freedom of contract. It is a matter between landlords and tenants. I must make it clear that we are not considering regulations in this area at all.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister will know, the Residential Landlords Association says that there are now 33,000 listings on the Airbnb website for holiday-type and short-term lettings. Alarmingly, 65% were available for more than 90 days a year, which is the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, is really getting at because that is in breach of planning law. Will the Minister please say whether central Government have made any assessment of what that has done to the housing market? Is it sufficient to leave it to local authorities, which do not enforce this? We make laws and we do not enforce them.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, breach of planning regulations is very different from the issue of freedom of contract. In relation to that matter, I have met with Airbnb. It does not now carry anyone who lets their property for more than 90 days at a time unless they have planning permission to do so. That is the company’s rule and it has contacted all those who propose to let property to let them know that. Since then, the Minister for Housing and Planning has written to all the other suppliers indicating that they should do similarly and that if there is a contractual provision they should abide by that as well.

Housing: Letting and Managing Agents

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I certainly will. That was a typically gracious response from the noble Baroness. It was a very well-reasoned report. Many people had been called to give evidence, so it was very strongly evidence-based. As I say, we will be consulting on implementation and enforcement. I am sure that we can talk about it in the meantime.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I have had a little more time to get some wind in my sails. I thank everybody who took part in this review: my co-chair, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, the ministry and the civil servants, who were incredibly helpful. However, the review raises ongoing questions for the Government to tackle. For instance, enforcement is a key to success. Will the Minister tell us what he intends to do about the recommendation in the report that the Government consider,

“authorising a prime authority for enforcement, recognising CMP schemes and providing up to date information”?

Without that, the mandatory scheme will not have teeth.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, once again I thank the noble Lord for the part he has played in this. He asked specifically about one aspect of the consultation. As I say, we will be consulting on enforcement and implementation. He rightly draws attention to the fact that on occasion there has been a prime authority in this sort of area supervising the enforcement—Powys was an example used in the review, although in this instance, because it is England only, it cannot be Powys. A strong case has been made out, but of course we will be consulting on it.

Business Rates: Revaluation

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Wednesday 1st March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Baroness makes a powerful case. As I have already indicated, small businesses are set to pay no business rates at all, and we have increased the number of small businesses by moving the threshold to a rateable value of £51,000. Therefore, any business under that will not be paying business rates at all. However, the point is well made and, as I say, there will be action in the Budget for businesses that got steep rises.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I do not recognise the Minister’s description of the high streets. Our high streets are in crisis. How can they compete with the likes of Amazon, with their low-rateable land away from the high street? During the coalition, a Liberal Democrat Minister commissioned a review of business rates which was scrapped by the Conservative Government. Can the Minister say whether they now regret scrapping that review, bearing in mind the mess they are in? Can he also comment on the fact that business rates are dealt with by the DCLG—which obviously considers it a good earner—whereas it should really be dealt with by the Business Secretary?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, there are quite a few questions there. The point that the noble Lord made about the high street and other forms of business activity has some merit, but it is quite separate from the issue of revaluation, which is done at arm’s length. We are open to looking at options, but obviously it will take time and we could not expect to do anything on this before the Budget. As the noble Lord will be aware, the Treasury did look at this in 2015 and, having consulted widely, concluded that the present system was best. However, I appreciate that globalisation, the internet and the vitality of the high street are factors that have to be weighed in the balance, so we are happy to look at this. The noble Lord asked a few other questions. If I may, I will respond to him in writing on those and put a copy in the Library.

Living Home Standard

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to concentrate on what is important in relation to the standard of homes. I can tell him that in 2014 20% of homes were regarded as below standard by the English Housing Survey, which is the recognised gold standard. That is a considerable improvement on the position in 2006, when, using the same measure, the figure was 35%.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I was disturbed to hear the Minister say that the figures are regarded as based on only perceptions. Can he tell the House what steps the Government are taking to increase the number of houses that meet what is often a very minimum standard?