Financial Services Bill

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Wednesday 18th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbrook]

I support the amendment of my noble friend Lord Flight. Financial literacy is not sufficiently taught in schools. Perhaps the Department for Education could encourage the BBC, which is very weak in the area of discussing business, let alone business education, to ask Robert Peston to do a programme on it.

[Lord McFall of Alcluith]

My Lords, I agree not with the pious nature of the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Flight, but with the realism of my noble friend Lord Peston. I chaired a workplace retirement income commission last year for the National Association of Pension Funds. We have seen a flight from defined benefit schemes to defined contribution schemes. As a result, we invited a Harvard professor to examine and explain the defined contribution scheme. He told us that he was unable to understand his own defined contribution scheme, never mind anyone else’s. Therefore, while financial education may be good, it is not the whole show.

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[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, I support the views of the noble Lord, Lord McFall, on split-level trusts. When I was a private client investment manager I came across these extraordinary products, which offered marvellous returns. Income shares were offering 8% and capital shares looked very exciting in the forecasts and prospectuses of what would happen if the market went up 5%, 10% or 20%. But the prospectuses did not say that if the market went down 5% or 10% your shares would be wiped out. It seems to me that, for all those vulnerable people, the FCA has to warn of the downside risks of these vehicles.

[Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke]

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lord McFall in this amendment but I greatly regret the fact that the amendment is necessary. One of the reasons for my regret is the appalling reputation that the financial services industry is earning now as a consequence of the events of the past few years. It is a vital industry for the United Kingdom. It was based initially on the probity of the United Kingdom, which now has to be seriously questioned. It should not be necessary to put into a Bill a duty of care on vulnerable people. It should be a matter of course.

When my noble friend Lady Hayter began this afternoon’s debate, she referred to the issues that have caused such convulsions in the past few months and have led to a serious loss of trust in financial services in general. It would come as no surprise that some particularly vulnerable people, especially the elderly, would nowadays prefer to put their money in a sock under the bed because it is about the only place where it is likely to be safe.

If we are going to restore the integrity of the financial services industry, we as a Parliament must be prepared to show that we are prepared to speak up for the vulnerable. Those of us whose careers have taken us into the other place have had to deal with constituency cases. Quite frankly, a number of times I have felt like sending for the police when I have had constituents in with instruments that they have been sold, which, in many cases, have taken their entire savings away from them. You get not just the City spivs who you see on television programmes but people who live in a community selling wholly unsuitable products.

I suspect that the Minister will say that this legislation is not necessary. I urge him to reconsider that. If we do not put the consumer back again at the heart of the financial services industry, we will lose the competitive advantage that I hope we still retain despite the events of the past few years. We have to overstate to convince people that their interests are at the heart of what this country stands for in terms of financial services regulation.

Financial Services Bill

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord McFall, is unable to be with us this afternoon because he is en route to receiving an honorary degree tomorrow, which I am sure the Committee will agree is well deserved.

This is another amendment that the noble Lord, Lord McFall, and I have tabled to ensure that the issues covered in the first report in this Session of the Treasury Select Committee in another place are properly debated. I am pleased to see that the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, has added his name to the amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, has already emphasised the importance of the macroprudential tools which are covered by new Sections 9G to 9M. I am sure that the thrust behind these new sections will command general support, but the detail of the new tools must be approached with very great care. My noble friend does not like the term “experiment”, but most of us think that if something looks like an experiment and sounds like an experiment, it is an experiment. We cannot get away from the fact that, because these macroprudential tools have not been used before in this country, nor is there much international experience to go by, we are talking about something very new which should receive very considerable scrutiny. Not even the Bank of England claims a monopoly of wisdom on what these macro- prudential matters should be.

This experimental phase will run for some time. The measures that are initially specified will almost certainly vary over time, as the focus of risks to financial stability changes and as experience is gained of working with the measures. We have something that is very new and, as the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, has also pointed out, these are very powerful tools to be placed into the hands of the FPC. We have already seen the FPC’s first shot at what it believes those macroprudential tools should be. It has suggested a countercyclical capital buffer, sectoral capital requirements and a leverage ratio. At that time the FPC said that some other measures, such as loan-to-value ratios and loan-to-income ratios, would need public support before they were introduced. I would like to suggest that all the potential measures need public support and therefore there has to be proper debate before it would be wise to introduce them. The Government have, correctly, decided that the new measures cannot simply be set by the FPC or the Bank. They have to be prescribed by the Treasury by order, and that order is subject to parliamentary approval. That meets the point which troubled the noble Lord, Lord Peston, a little while ago.

So far, so good. The measures are to be initially specified by the Treasury, not left to the Bank and the FPC, and they have to be approved by Parliament. The problem is that new Section 9M prescribes the draft affirmative procedure. This procedure is, of course, better than the ordinary affirmative procedure which is, in turn, better than the negative procedure. However, none of these procedures is, in truth, more than a rubber stamp. Oppositions know this only too well, but that knowledge seems somehow to evaporate when they find themselves on the government Benches. Some of us still remember.

The importance of the macroprudential measures lies not in their technical specification and potential impact on financial stability, though those are very important issues. The equally important issues are the consequences of using the measures and their impact on the wider economy. These matters need proper scrutiny and debate both in Parliament and, as we discussed earlier, outside. Once the FPC has been granted these measures they will be able to use them without any further parliamentary intervention. The price for getting these wrong could be very high and so Parliament needs to be very sure that it understands the potential impact of the powers and that it has an opportunity to amend or circumscribe them if that is appropriate. The only way we can get a proper debate in these terms is through the use of the super-affirmative procedure, and that is what the amendment proposes.

The Treasury Select Committee in another place believes that the super-affirmative procedure is appropriate and fully in accordance with Erskine May, which describes the procedure as used,”

“in enactments where an exceptionally high degree of scrutiny is appropriate”.

It is inescapable that these measures fall into that category. It is generally the case that Governments never start out thinking that the super-affirmative procedure is the right one. However, the will of Parliament does sometimes prevail over the Executive in this area.

The Government recently accepted in the Public Bodies Act 2011 that their powers to wind up such hugely important bodies as the Home Grown Timber Advisory Committee or the Railway Heritage Committee should be subject to the super-affirmative procedure, but it appears that they have yet to be convinced that granting these massive new powers to the FPC is of that importance. It is a no-brainer that the super-affirmative procedure should be used and I hope that my noble friend will be prepared to accept that that is the case.

I am aware that the Delegated Powers Committee, which I hold in the highest regard, has not raised objections to the affirmative procedure in the Bill. That is interesting but not conclusive. The final arbiter on these matters is Parliament. The Delegated Powers Committee acts as an early warning system of problems for Parliament to address. The committee does not act on behalf of Parliament to approve particular procedures.

In responding to the Treasury Select Committee, the Government have raised concerns about timing and, in particular, the impact of recesses. This is a red herring. We are not generally dealing with matters which need to be introduced immediately. However, if the FPC woke up one morning with an urgent need to acquire a new macroprudential tool, one’s first reaction would be that that was surprising. However, if that were genuinely the case and the Treasury were committed, my Amendment 62 does not remove the ability to act with urgency. The powers set out in new Section 9M for the made affirmative procedure can be used when the Treasury is convinced of the urgency of the matter.

When the Governor of the Bank of England came to talk to a number of us last week, he rightly emphasised the accountability of the Bank and the FPC to Parliament. Accountability is an ex post concept: Parliament also has to have the ability to be involved fully ex ante in the formulation of important matters such as the macroprudential measures, and the super-affirmative procedure is the only proper way to proceed. I beg to move.

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lady Noakes in her Amendment 162. Like my noble friend, I believe that there should be stronger parliamentary scrutiny of the macroprudential tools.

While I accept that there must be flexibility to grant the FPC new tools quickly in rare and urgent circumstances, I still agree with the Treasury Select Committee’s report on the accountability of the Bank of England. As the legislation stands, approval by the House of Commons requires only a 90-minute debate in a general committee and a decision without debate in the House. Like the Select Committee, I recommend that the Government amend the draft legislation to require debates on orders prescribing macroprudential measures to be held on the Floor of the House and not be subject to the 90-minute restriction. The House would benefit from prior scrutiny of such orders by the committee. This view is supported by the Joint Committee on the draft Financial Services Bill, which agrees that there should be a system of enhanced parliamentary scrutiny of these important tools. Like my noble friend Lady Noakes, I was disappointed. Although I respect enormously the Delegated Powers Committee, I felt that its arguments for not wishing this were not as substantial as I would have liked.

Financial Services Bill

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Stamford]

My Lords, I think that my noble friend Lord McFall and the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, have been very persuasive on this point. All human institutions—indeed, all human beings—perform best in life and achieve the most when we set ourselves clear objectives, we monitor our performance in meeting them and we are quite clear and honest with ourselves and others about the extent to which we have met them. Clearly, with regard to an institution that has public responsibilities and fiduciary responsibility on behalf of the public as a whole to supervise our financial sector, those criteria and objectives and the extent to which they have been achieved or otherwise should be a matter of public knowledge and public debate. I am certain that matters should proceed like that.

As the noble Baroness has just said, the amendment would not in any way hardwire specific metrics or criteria into the legislation; it says merely that the FPC and the Treasury would have to agree among themselves what particular objectives or criteria they were going to adopt for a foreseeable period, and then we could watch to see whether they were adopted or not. I do not have any specific objectives or criteria to put forward except perhaps an addition to the sort of principles that my noble friend Lord McFall referred to. We should at least mention something that, while it is quite obvious, the public would expect to be there, such as that the FPC would expect to intervene sufficiently early and to be sufficiently alert to the difficulties that can arise in order to avoid situations where the Bank of England has to supply either solvency support to banks by way of deposits in a crisis or indeed liquidity support or solvency support if it requires accuracy or nationalisation. These are extreme examples of how things can go badly wrong. They have gone badly wrong over the last few years and there should be an explicit commitment to avoid those mistakes and those disasters in any agreed criteria which may come out of the discussion between the Treasury and the FPC foreseen by the amendment.

[Lord Northbrook]

I support the very sensible amendment in the names of the noble Lord, Lord McFall, and my noble friend Lady Noakes. As the noble Lord, Lord McFall, stated, the MPC’s remit is to target inflation. Finding an indicator—or a set of indicators—for the FPC is difficult. There is merit in amending the Bill to ensure that a set of statistics is available to help external bodies, including the Treasury, to assess the performance of the FPC. The recommendation in the Treasury Committee’s report says:

“The selected range of indicators must be flexible and under constant challenge and review, not only by Parliament, Government and the Bank of England, but also by others such as financial industry practitioners, the media, academia and the public. The indicators should be published so that the performance in maintaining financial stability may be monitored and so that it can be held accountable for that performance. The FPC should report against these criteria at regular intervals”.

To the same extent, the Joint Committee said:

“The FPC should begin work towards developing indicators of financial stability in dialogue with the Treasury. They should be published and the FPC should report against them. The set of indicators should be flexible and subject to regular review”.

The recommendations of these two committees are very powerful and, as the noble Lord, Lord McFall, has already stated, the court was generally supportive but did not believe that they should be put in the Bill. I happen to disagree: I think it would be much clearer to have these in the Bill.

[Lord Eatwell]

My Lords, I support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord McFall, and the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. This is—reflecting our earlier discussions—one of the Tyrie amendments. It is very cleverly drafted because it does not attempt to specify a particular set of indicators. It knows that the FPC is in a learning experience: that we are all going to be in a debate over indicators, instruments and so on in the years to come. Nothing could further that debate better than to propose a set of indicators, such as, for example, the rate of credit growth, which we have just been talking about, although not just in the UK. This is an extremely valuable amendment which, is, I hear, supported all round the Committee and I would expect the Minister to take account of the weight of this support.

Also in this group is a series of amendments in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Hayter. I would like to take a few minutes to address these. They are all concerned with the reports that the Financial Policy Committee is required to make and they all specify characteristics of the report. The first one requires the presentation of scenarios: the attempt by the Financial Policy Committee to look at various potential crises—stress-testing, we call it at a micro level—and assess the impact of their policies and of various events. We have learnt from the Office for Budget Responsibility how useful this technique can be and I am sure it will be extremely effective in the assessment of macroprudential measures. Amendment 73, requiring the presentation of scenarios, fits in with the philosophy of policy-making and of the empirical basis of evidence-based policy-making in finance today. I therefore hope the Government will accept it.

Amendment 74 is consequential upon today’s acceptance of the Government’s Amendment 35A, which we agreed earlier this afternoon. After all, if the Financial Policy Committee is required to take into account government policies on growth and employment, then it is surely appropriate that it should report on its performance on what it is required to take into account. This should really have been down as a consequential amendment to Amendment 35A but I am happy to help the Government out and introduce their consequential amendment for them.

Amendment 75, on the issue of indicators, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord McFall, and the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, places those indicators in the reporting structure of the FPC. Amendment 76 would relate the FPC’s report to the functioning of financial markets and of the wider economy. If they do not discuss that then I am blowed if I know what they are going to discuss. So let us at least hope that that is agreed by everyone around the Committee.

These are just four amendments to flesh out the characteristics of FPC reporting which will be a crucial part of FPC accountability. Given that we are handing these powers to unelected officials, the reporting structure is an important component. That reporting structure— and the debates over the role of the FPC—would be enormously enhanced by the acceptance of Amendment 40 in the name of my noble friend Lord McFall and of the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes.

Financial Services Bill

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Tuesday 26th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Flight]

My Lords, I also support the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, for essentially the reasons given by the noble Lord, Lord Burns, and as part of the process of restoring the court to being a proper board.

I want to comment on Amendment 5. I have mixed views, but I think it is quite healthy that someone being appointed to such an important role should be subject to vetting in the same sort of way that occurs typically in the United States and that it probably is the Treasury Select Committee that is equipped to handle that vetting.

If I may digress, the present Governor of the Bank of England studied economics at the same university as me at the same time, and anyone that knew that knew that the teaching of economics at that time at that university was appallingly bad. That illustrates that it takes some effort to assess the sort of mind that someone being appointed to that job has got. The absence of any form of politically accountable examination is probably wrong in today’s world. Therefore Amendment 5 is worthy of serious consideration.

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, I disagree with Amendment 5. It gives the Treasury Select Committee too much power. As I understand it, the Treasury Select Committee already holds pre-commencement hearings with those who have been selected to become governors and deputy governors. Furthermore, as I understand it, the Government have no powers to remove a Governor of the Bank of England; rather the Treasury must give its consent if the Bank decides the governor has met the criteria for removal. It is the Bank’s decision to make. The pre-commencement hearings provide the right balance between giving Parliament an opportunity to question the new appointee on their views and qualifications without bringing into question or placing doubts over the appointment itself.

[Lord Tugendhat]

My Lords, I was unable to participate in the early stages of the debate this afternoon because I was at a Select Committee, but now that I am here I should like, on the basis of experience, to support the proposition of my noble friend Lady Wheatcroft—not experience of the court of the Bank of England, I hasten to add, but of the European Commission. The President of the European Commission is appointed quite separately from the other members of the Commission and he has no particular power over who else is going to become a member. The way it is done leaves him at the mercy of Governments. My experience under a very strong and good president in the case of Roy Jenkins and under a much weaker and less effective president in Gaston Thorn is that if the chairman or president, whatever he is called, of a body has no influence over the appointment of his colleagues or over whether they stay or go, it seriously diminishes the significance of the person in charge.

As the noble Lord, Lord Burns, said earlier, we are trying to put together something that has a governance structure in keeping with the modern age and which sets an example, inasmuch as that is possible in a body such as the Bank of England which is quite separate from the corporate sector, to the rest of the country. If the chairman is to be taken seriously by the governor and, indeed, by the entire Bank of England beneath the governor, it is essential that he should be seen to be somebody who has played a significant role in the appointment. It would be quite unacceptable if a governor were appointed in whom the chairman did not have confidence. It would be quite unacceptable if the governor felt that the chairman did not have confidence in him, just as it would be unacceptable if the chairman felt that the governor did not have confidence in the chairman.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, has put forward a very sensible and practical proposition. As I say, I speak with experience of having served in a body where the chairman did not have the powers that the noble Baroness suggests. My experience is that that was not a very good way of doing things.

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[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, I support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord McFall. I noted that in the Treasury Committee’s first report on the Financial Services Bill of 23 May, Mark Hoban was quoted as having spoken in the other place as follows. I hope that the Committee does not mind me repeating it, because it is quite important:

“My hon. Friend the Member for Chichester also mentioned publication of the court’s minutes. The Bank has committed to publishing what it terms a record of future court meetings. It is worth pointing out that the FPC also produces what it calls a record of its meetings, which is a very full account of the debates that go on in the FPC, and we will expect a similar process to be undertaken for the court’s meetings. Let me be clear: I believe that there is a clear need for the Bank’s accountability arrangements to be strengthened through the publication of the court’s minutes and the enhanced scrutiny of the court’s work, although I believe that the changes announced by the Bank help address the concerns raised by my hon. Friend and the Treasury Committee. He made some powerful arguments that have been echoed by other members of the Committee, and we will consider further whether these arrangements should be put in the Bill. We will reflect on these matters and reconsider them when the Bill goes to the other place. I hope that that helps to reassure the House on how seriously we take these matters and our willingness to listen and respond to the concerns raised by Members during the debate”.—[Official Report, Commons, 23/4/12; col. 766.]

I ask the Minister to consider those comments by Mr Hoban in the other place.

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, in its report on Bank of England accountability, the Treasury Select Committee indeed recommended that the court publish minutes of its meetings. In its response to the Treasury Select Committee, the court accepted this recommendation in principle and agreed to begin to publish a record of its meetings once the new structure was in place. By putting this requirement into the Bill, as we propose to do through government Amendment 97, we ensure that this important transparency mechanism will remain in place.

As the Treasury Committee itself recognised, the court is likely to discuss extremely sensitive matters that are unsuitable for publication—for example, the provision of emergency liquidity assistance to an ailing bank. Therefore sub-paragraph (3) of new paragraph 12A establishes that the record must not contain any information whose publication would be against the public interest. I am pleased to see that Amendment 12, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord McFall, contains a similar provision. However, in a divergence of opinion, perhaps similar to that discussed by my noble friend Lord Sassoon in the previous group, the Government do not agree that the court should be required in all cases to notify the Treasury Select Committee of the reasons why information might have been withheld for public interest reasons from publication.

When the Bank takes actions that involve risk to taxpayer money, such as liquidity operations indemnified by the Treasury, it is the responsibility of the Treasury rather than the court to ensure that the relevant parliamentary committees are informed, on a confidential basis if necessary. There are already formal and informal mechanisms in place for this to happen, including in the new crisis management MoU. When a court discusses sensitive matters that are not related to public money, I do not see the value in creating a bureaucratic requirement for the court to notify the TSC, or to keep under review material that it excludes from meeting records, with a view to publishing it at a later date. Of course, the court may publish information on discussions that were originally excluded from the record at a later date if it believes it appropriate to do so.

The same arguments apply to Amendments 72 and 86 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, in relation to material excluded from the records of FPC meetings and meetings between the Chancellor and the governor. There is also widespread agreement that the Financial Conduct Authority should publish a record of its board meetings. The future leadership of the FCA has agreed to this. We have therefore brought forward Amendment 144, which makes similar provision for the FCA. Indeed, the FSA will publish in early August a record of its June board meeting, consistent with the provisions proposed.

Amendments 70 and 80, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, attempt to include the word “minutes” in other places in Clause 3 where the word “record” is used. That goes to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord McFall. The specific word used is not important. I hope we can agree that what is vital is ensuring that the record provides a clear public account of decisions taken by the court, the FPC and the FCA, and of the rationale and arguments that were put forward by members in favour of and against each decision. Sub-paragraph (2) of proposed new paragraph 12A, which sets out what the record must contain, ensures that that will be achieved for the court. Identical new provisions cover the FCA under Amendment 144. New Section 9R(2) similarly sets out precisely what the FPC’s meeting record must contain.

I move on to Amendment 85, which was also tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter. Subsection (5) of new Section 9U requires the Treasury to consult the Bank before publishing the record of the meeting between the governor and the Chancellor. That will ensure that the Bank’s views about whether material is suitable for publication will be taken fully into account. The noble Baroness can be assured that the Treasury would not publish any material which the Bank believed was sensitive.

Amendments 20, 59, 60, 71, 77, 78, 83, 84 and 85 are generally speaking to do with websites. Transparency and openness are a critical part of any regulatory system. Transparency of decision-making is a vital aid to the public understanding of regulatory actions. In all cases where the Bill provides for certain documents to be made public, including those affected by amendments in this group, I would of course expect the publications to be made available on the relevant website. That is because the internet is at present the primary method for the public to access this type of material. However, I ask noble Lords to accept that technology advances at a tremendous pace. Fifty years ago, neither the internet nor websites existed. It is impossible to foresee how far digital communication will have advanced in the next five years, let alone 50.

As well as publishing documents on their websites, the Bank, the Treasury and the FSA already make use of Twitter, Flickr, YouTube and RSS to communicate with the public. Any one of these, or some other new form of media, may become the most widespread way to communicate with the public in the future. That is why we should not make provision in the Bill for specific types of communications media that may be superseded sooner or later. That is in line with the long-standing principle of future-proofing new legislation. While I think we agree on the principle of transparency and openness, I hope that the noble Lord will be persuaded to withdraw the amendment.

Let me reassure noble Lords that this should not be taken to imply that the new authorities will not make use of the internet to promote transparency and openness. The interim Financial Policy Committee has already published two financial stability reports and a record for each of its five meetings on the Bank’s website, with the latest record to be published on 6 July. In addition, last year the Bank published on its website a public consultation on macroprudential tools. I have no doubt that this will continue, but in general I contend that it is sensible to allow the publishing authority to decide in what manner to reach interested parties most effectively, which is why I hope noble Lords will understand why I cannot support Amendment 82, which seeks specifically to remove this discretion from the Treasury. I hope that noble Lords will accept government Amendments 97 and 144 and be prepared not to press their own.

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Given the wide range of instruments that the Financial Policy Committee is considering it might use and the broad nature of the development of its strategy, the way to secure acceptance of the control of such important levers on the economy by an unelected committee is to have the widest consultation possible. We would therefore like to add consultation of the public in general to the formal internal governmental consultations included in the clause. I beg to move.

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, when I first saw the amendment and the reference to the public I thought it could mean consulting someone on the Clapham omnibus about the Bank’s financial stability strategy. However, the noble Lord said that he meant financial institutions and those with a financial interest rather than a broad definition of the public.

[Lord Eatwell]

Perhaps I may clarify that point. It is a term of art to say that you consult the public. When an institution such as the Bank of England or the Financial Services Authority initiates a general consultation and publishes a consultation document, they consult the public. In fact, it tends to be the financial services industry and other immediately interested parties who are consulted, not the gentleman on the Clapham omnibus.

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[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, as a historian, although I have some sympathy with the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, I feel that sometimes you need a little more perspective on these problems. Sometimes a gap of time can be useful, particularly when a crisis has had such complicated origins and effects which keep continuing. I would rather keep the three years as in the Bill.

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, Amendments 18 and 19 would require the court to review the Bank’s stability strategy annually. The extant legislation, the Bank of England Act, requires the court to determine and review the bank’s strategy in relation to the financial stability objective. That legislation does not set out how regularly the strategy should be reviewed. In practice, the court has recently revised the financial stability strategy annually. That is understandable given the sheer volume of legislative and other changes to the system of financial regulation in the past three or so years.

However, a strategy ought to be something for the long term. If the strategy is revised annually—ad infinitum, I contend—there is a risk that the short timeframe would lead to focus on short-term issues, reading more like what one might call a business plan than a genuine strategy. That is why new Section 9A will require the court in future to revise the Bank’s stability strategy at least every three years—more in line, I suggest, with a long-term strategy. Of course, if circumstances mean that the strategy must be changed in a shorter timeframe, new Section 9A allows the court the flexibility to revise the strategy earlier, as the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, pointed out in an earlier debate.

We believe that a long-term financial strategy should provide vision, purpose and certainty for the Bank, its staff and the industry alike. That is why I believe that a three-year timeframe for a strategy is appropriate, so I ask the noble Lord to withdraw his Amendment 18.

Financial Services Bill

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, when the banking crisis hit the UK in 2007 and 2008, no one knew who was in charge. The tripartite authorities took a minimalist view of their respective responsibilities and necessary action fell between three stools. Thus, they failed to maintain financial stability. The tripartite system tried to segregate the regulation of banks from the management of the economy as a whole. I believe we must treat them as one part of a whole system.

The decision to turn the Bank of England into a monetary authority was good, but it was wrong to separate out regulation into the FSA as a micro-regulator. This was likely to fail because no one was in charge of the size of banks’ balance sheets—not only in the bust, as we well know, but in the boom as well. The Bill reunites the banks and other financial institutions as part of one system and I strongly recommend this.

I will not oppose the structure of the new financial regulators, but will concentrate on possible amendments to the legislation. I emphasise, as have many other noble Lords, that a major part of the remit of either the MPC or the FPC—I am not quite sure which—should be to encourage economic growth, and that the words “reasonable” and “fair” should be added to “proportionate” in new Clause 3B on page 28. Also, the PRA should appoint practitioner and consumer panels, as well as hold a public meeting to discuss its annual report, as the FSA does.

I also approve of the amount of consultation undertaken by the Government on these proposals. The changes made to the Bill as a result are most welcome. However, it is very important that the proposed supervisory bodies co-ordinate to represent effectively our national interest at European and international levels, including with European supervisory authorities. The financial services industry, the Government and the UK regulatory authorities all have important roles to play in representing the UK in international discussions on financial regulation. However, I draw attention to paragraph 366 of the Select Committee report, which, as many noble Lords have said, states:

“Successful regulation depends more on the regulatory culture, focus and philosophy than on structure”.

As the noble Lord, Lord Desai, said, if regulators cannot understand the risks, no regulatory system will be sound. If the company management cannot understand them, that is even worse.

As usual these days, the other place was given far too little time to scrutinise the Bill. In the rest of my remarks, I will focus on areas of MPs’ concern that are still outstanding, especially those noted by the head of the Treasury Select Committee, Andrew Tyrie. The first concern, as many noble Lords have mentioned, is over the Court of the Bank of England. On Report in another place, a new clause was proposed to make the court more transparent and to require it to act more like a proper board. In my view, the Bank must have a board that is capable of assessing the institution’s performance, but it is explicitly prohibited from doing so at present. The Minister in the other place responded favourably to this idea. Perhaps I may ask the Minister what amendments he might be tabling here.

The second concern was that the appointment and dismissal of the governor would benefit from a parliamentary veto. I can see the attraction of this as, for instance, it might have prevented the appointment of rather weak governors as took place in the 1980s. A fixed term of eight years might be appropriate.

Thirdly, the Financial Policy Committee and the court should publish full minutes. Currently, the Government have said that a so-called record should be published. This has not satisfied the Treasury Select Committee and I agree. Fourthly, as the noble Lord, Lord Burns, has just said, the Chancellor needs a general power to direct the Bank of England in a crisis where public funds are at stake, and not the rather strictly circumscribed powers that the Bill contains.

Fifthly, there needs to be enhanced scrutiny of the secondary legislation that will accompany the Bank of England’s macroprudential tools. The Treasury Select Committee wants a super-affirmative procedure, as mentioned by my noble friend Lady Noakes. I agree that we must have something which provides for full debate and time to consider the proposals except in emergencies.

Sixthly, the MPC and the FPC should have a majority of external members. The Treasury Select Committee feels that it is vital in the long term to guard against “group-think” on these committees, with which I agree. Seventhly, we need to look at the Financial Conduct Authority’s objectives. The FCA would work better if it focused on a simple set of objectives. The Government in the other place added to the proposals what they describe as overarching strategic objectives. But the Treasury Select Committee feels that they add nothing to the operational objectives in the Bill and might take something away by creating confusion.

Eighthly, the FCA’s accountability mechanisms need strengthening. The FCA should publish its own minutes, its chief executive should be subject to pre-appointment scrutiny and it should review its own performance without the need of the Treasury Select Committee to force it to do so. The committee managed to get the FSA to review the collapse of RBS but, apparently, it was hard work getting it to do so.

Finally, I should like to turn to the four specific issues on which I should like the FSA and its successors to focus. The first is to avoid a repeat of the MF Global saga—the derivative trader which collapsed in October 2010. Amazingly, the organisation was considered to be outside the scope of the regulatory authority, yet its balance sheet was more than £40 billion. The capital flows between the UK and the USA were huge and there now appears to be issues of insider trading. Unless there is more co-ordination between national regulators there will be more of these crises.

Secondly, we have the Arch Cru type of problem. Arch Cru was established in 2006 and was sold as a vehicle to provide low-risk cautious management funds. It is reminiscent of Bernie Madoff’s venture. Like all investment funds, it was regulated by the FSA. Needless to say, it invested in high-risk property, shipping and ferries. Clause 64(5) states that events occurring prior to December 2001 will not be subject to the power of inquiry. As I understand it, the Government still have the power to institute an inquiry under Section 14 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000. I hope that they will still make use of that power and that the FCA will pay particular attention to these types of “low-risk” organisations.

Thirdly, there is the problem of payday loans. While this may be a good and necessary route for very short-term loans, they can become a very dangerous process if allowed to continue for too long. Legislation may be difficult in this area, particularly when borrowers may not get loan finance anywhere else. I hope that the OFT investigation announced in February will produce positive results to allow reputable payday loan companies to continue but, as the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham said, to ban loan sharks. Fourthly, like many others I am sure, I seem to be continually pestered by the PPI ambulance chasers. Even though I am ex-directory I get two or three calls a day. Cannot this cold calling practice be outlawed?

Overall, this legislation is a big step forward from the legislative framework that was in place at the time of the crash and I hope that my suggestions will help to improve the Bill further.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)]

My Lords, this debate has been every bit as rigorous and illuminating as I expected and I thank your Lordships for approaching the Bill in a thoroughly constructive and thoughtful manner. We have had many useful contributions during the afternoon and evening. Some I would characterise as sighting shots, and we had a few opening barrages. I thank in particular the noble Lord, Lord O’Donnell, for his characteristically clear, focused and constructive maiden speech, which certainly contained a number of well aimed rifle shots.

I was delighted that my noble friends who are former Chancellors welcomed the Bill. I was also pleased that at the start of the debate the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, said that the fundamental thinking behind the Bill was well founded. Noble Lords who have direct experience of operating within the current structure, including the noble Lords, Lord Myners and Lord Burns, recognised that the tripartite system had not lived up to expectations, to use their measured terms. We have a major piece of legislation in front of us, the importance of which is widely recognised.

Before I get into the detail of some of the points that have been made, I wish to say a few words about the form of the Bill, as speakers, including the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, and the noble Baroness, Lady Cohen of Pimlico, questioned the way in which it had been written as amending legislation as opposed to a wholesale rewrite of FSMA and other legislation. We thought about this approach very carefully. I appreciate that the Bill in its present form is not easy for any of us, but it is an approach that has been widely supported by consultation respondents and will minimise the extent to which regulated firms and other users of FSMA have to deal with legislative change. It should also allow for more focused scrutiny in this House and by stakeholders of the key changes in the regulatory regime. However, as I am sure noble Lords are aware, the Government have published a consolidated version of FSMA to help to show explicitly what the legislation will look like once it is amended by this Bill. That is available on the Treasury website.

I wish to make one other preliminary remark before we get into the content of the Bill. I noted the very interesting suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord O’Donnell, of having a standing Joint Committee to assess the new framework. It is an interesting idea but it is for Parliament and not the Government to decide how best to organise its scrutiny activities. However, I repeat that the quality of the Joint Committee’s work in scrutinising the new arrangements underlines the noble Lord’s point. It was good to hear from members of that committee in the debate, such as my noble friend Lady Wheatcroft, the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, and the noble Lord, Lord McFall of Alcluith. However, I am very sorry, as I am sure is the whole House, that we have been robbed of the wisdom of my former noble friend Lord Maples, who would have very much enriched today’s debate.

The hour is late. I will not take this opportunity to read a fully formed speech highlighting again why the Bill is so important to protect the UK financial services sector and the wider economy. I could reiterate the arguments, but I will use the time to answer as many of the points that have been brought up as I can. I will have to leave many others on the table for future discussion or letters as appropriate.

I have tried to group together the points. First, I shall pick up some of the issues on the overall architecture and the cross-cutting issues. Then I will address some of the points on the Bank of England, the FPC objectives and bank governance, and another area where many important points were raised concerning access to financial services, as well as one or two of the international issues that were raised.

On the overall architecture and some of the cross-cutting issues in the Bill, a point that was very clearly made by a number of noble Lords, including my noble friends Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Lamont of Lerwick, is the question of judgment and culture—architecture versus institutions. Many speakers have made the point that the culture of regulators is more important than institutional architecture. I agree of course that culture is vital but, as the noble Baroness, Lady Cohen of Pimlico, noted, architecture also matters. That is precisely why we are implementing these reforms to put in place an institutional framework that will allow a culture of focused expertise and judgment to flourish separately and distinctively within the new PRA and the FCA. That is reinforced in the Bill by, for example, imposing the legal duty to supervise firms, which will require the two bodies to develop and promote a culture of supervisory judgment.

There were questions about what is characterised as twin-peaks regulation. I do not like that tag but let me now use it for simplicity. The importance of co-ordination between the PRA and the FCA has been stressed by my noble friend Lady Kramer and others. We agree that this is important. That is why we have proposed cross-membership of the boards of the PRA and the FCA, and it is why there is a statutory duty to co-ordinate the requirement to prepare a memorandum of understanding. These issues have been thought about.

Let us be clear on another issue of co-ordination, which relates to crisis management and particularly the involvement of the Treasury. That issue was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Eatwell and Lord Burns, my noble friend Lady Noakes, and others. The Bill places the Bank under a hard legal duty to notify the Treasury of a risk to public funds. It is a duty that applies regardless of the amount at risk or the Bank’s opinion on what should be done. That is at odds with what I heard from some noble Lords who addressed this point. The MoU also makes it clear that, if there is any doubt, the Bank must notify. The MoU also allows the Treasury to require the Bank to consider making a notification in response to a specific risk or situation.

On one or two other cross-cutting issues, the importance of cost control and proportionality was raised by a significant number of speakers, including my noble friends Lord Flight and Lord Naseby, and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria. The Government agree that cost control and proportionality are fundamental. The PRA and the FCA are required to have regard to proportionality. Both regulators are of course required to carry out cost-benefit analyses and to consult on their rules, as one would expect, but there are a number of areas in which the Bill goes further than previous practice. For example, for the first time, the financial services regulators are subject to National Audit Office audit, and the NAO is able to conduct value-for-money studies. That is something new in the structure to be introduced.

There were one or two specific questions on the scope of regulation. My noble friend Lord Flight asked about life companies and observed that they are very different from banks. I certainly agree with my noble friend on that, and it is precisely why we have a different insurance objective for the PRA and explicit provision covering the PRA’s duties in the regulation of with-profits policies. My noble friend Lord Teverson raised a question on rating agencies. The reason why they are not addressed directly in the Bill is that they are now a European competence, and the lead is taken by one of the three European bodies—ESMA—with the Commission.

Two other important areas concerning scope were raised. A number of speakers, including the noble Lord, Lord McFall of Alcluith, my noble friends Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lady Wheatcroft, and others, talked about bank auditors. As with other topics, I cannot do this justice this evening. I simply remind the House that responsibility for looking after auditors and their regulation remains with the Financial Reporting Council, and so it is not part of the Bill. The FRC is doing a significant amount of work around the scope of audit. I was pleased that my noble friend recognised that we had picked up one important issue, going back to his legislation. The practice of dialogue between auditors and regulators, which needs to be addressed, is now in the code of practice, although I heard the suggestion that it might be embodied in the legislation.

Lastly in this area, the question of central counterparty clearing houses—another important issue—was raised by my noble friend Lady Kramer. I remind the House that there is an important European directive coming in this area—the so-called EMIR, the European Market Infrastructure Regulation—which aims to reduce systemic risk in the OTC derivatives space. We want to make sure that what we are doing in the UK fits with the architecture of EMIR, which will itself be directly applicable in the UK. I suggest that we do not want to fall into the trap of super-equivalence. On the other hand, there are provisions in the Bill for rules to be made that fit within the developing architecture of EMIR.

I turn to some of the issues concerning the Bank of England’s FPC bank governance. First, on the question of the FPC and its objective, the Government recognise that the pursuit of financial stability needs to be balanced against the wider contribution of the financial system to economic growth. As I explained at the outset, the Bill seeks to provide this balance by requiring the FPC to have regard to the proportionality of its actions and by preventing it taking any action that would have a significant adverse impact on sustainable economic growth. Having said that, I listened very carefully to the significant number of noble Lords who pointed out that there should be more recognition of growth in the FPC objective. I have already mentioned many of the speakers who addressed that point but the others included the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, who did so in his characteristic way. I cannot promise any amendments in this area. I listened very carefully but I certainly cannot promise one that directs the FPC to have specific regard to the interests of the Lower Lea Valley, although I think that the House heard very clearly all the great things that are going on there. However, I listened to the points that were made.

Points were also raised concerning co-ordination. On the one hand, the Bill is solving the co-ordination problems by making the Bank and the governor responsible for what some characterised as everything; on the other hand, that presents challenges not only for the person of the governor but for bankers and institutions—something that my noble friend Lord Tugendhat and others brought up. Of course, I certainly accept that monetary policy, financial stability policy and prudential regulation are intimately connected. That is why having these responsibilities under one roof is the best way to ensure that co-ordination. Within that framework, in each role the governor does not act alone but is supported by external and non-executive members and others.

There were other points made by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham and others on Bank of England governance. I said again at the outset that this is an area in which the Government recognise the need to go further, and I have listened to what has been said tonight. I was grateful to my noble friend Lord Stewartby for pointing out some of the lessons from the Board of Banking Supervision and for recognising that we cannot expect to pick up exactly what it was. However, I believe that the lessons from that experience have been picked up in the design of the PRA board. On the power of direction, I heard speakers say that they believed it to be too constrained. I do not believe that that is the case in relation to the scope that it has in special support operations and the provision of emergency liquidity in relation to the special resolution regime, but I am sure that this is something that we will come back to.

Let me turn to a few remarks about issues on access to financial services. I will be unable to do them full justice, but there were issues around diversity of provision—specifically on mutuals. The coalition agreement makes clear the Government’s commitment on mutuals. The Bill requires regulators to analyse the effect of their rules on mutuals, which is a new measure that will help to ensure the fair treatment that we want. The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and the right reverend Prelate raised questions about the inclusion and universal provision of financial services. They are very important questions but they are essentially questions of social policy, so are for the Government and not directly for the regulatory structure. On SME lending and questions asked by my noble friend Lord Sharkey and others, the Government are taking significant action, which we have discussed before, outside the framework of this legislation to ensure the flow of lending to SMEs. That work will continue.

In another related area, my noble friend Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts talked about the importance of social impact investors. I agree with that but I question the role of the legislation that we are talking about in that area. On consumer credit regulation—important points were made again from my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral and others—the Government are committed to designing a proportionate model of FCA regulation for the sector. The Government will consult on this and detailed proposals will come forward early in 2013. My noble friend raised the question of self-regulation. I agree with him that self-regulation which is credible, transparent and effective is an important complement to statutory regulation. The FSA is at the moment looking at different industry codes in the credit industry considering whether, and if so, how they can be incorporated into the new FCA regime.

On payday loans, which was addressed by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, the right reverend Prelate, and others, we are awaiting the research being done by Bristol University’s Personal Finance Research Centre at the impact on consumers and business of introducing a cap on the total cost of credit—not an easy topic. The final report is on course to be published this summer.

Finally in this area, I will address briefly the question of peer-to-peer lending raised by my noble friend Lord Lucas and others. The Government do not think that statutory regulation is appropriate at this point. The sector is very small and such regulation would be a barrier to new entrants and innovation. However, this is a matter that we will keep under review, and I am grateful to my noble friend for raising it.

On confidential information and its disclosure, I was asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, about the FSA review. If the FSA concludes as a result of the review that changes to primary legislation are needed, we will consider the proposals very carefully and bring forward legislation as appropriate. It is an important issue.

A couple of points were made on the international front, which clearly is highly relevant. The first concerned the mismatch between the architecture in the UK and the developing architecture in Europe. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Valentine, that this House probably would not want to abolish imperial measures. Certainly I do not want to abolish them. On financial supervisory architecture, we must design something that is appropriate to the UK. I draw the attention of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter of Kentish Town, to the broad consensus in the evidence given to the Joint Committee that having a different regulatory structure to that of the European supervisory authorities would not present any issues for the UK authorities either in representing UK interests or in the way that firms in the UK are regulated.

I am sure that we will come back at length to the question of international competitiveness that was raised by my noble friend Lord Trenchard and others. The Government’s position is that it is what the regulators—the FCA and the PRA—do that will make the difference in determining whether the UK is or is not a competitive place in which to do business, not having a statement about competitiveness. It will be the high regulatory standards and the stability of the financial sector to which these will contribute—the reliability, fairness and consistency of regulation—that will be important in maintaining and driving forward the attractiveness and competitiveness of London. It is those issues that will address the substance of the point.

A challenge was thrown down at a number of points in the debate. The noble Lords, Lord Bilimoria, Lord Barnett and Lord Burns, asked whether this structure would have prevented the recent crisis. In my opening remarks I did not mean to say—and did not say—that the structure was the direct cause of the crisis. Of course the principal cause was the behaviour of firms. However, I was in the structure between 2003 and 2005, and I know that that behaviour contributed to the severity of the impact of the crisis in the UK. No one had the responsibility, the authority or the tools to monitor the system as a whole in the way that will be provided for in the FPC. I sat in the monthly meetings of the tripartite deputies at which the stability side of the Bank, which was being significantly reduced, nevertheless came forward with very good analyses of some of the problems that were welling up.

This was in 2005; I did not have the benefit of seeing what happened in 2006 or 2007. However, the analysis was brought forward but the Bank did not take it upon itself to do anything with it, and the FSA did not take away the lessons from the analysis. The deputy governor of the Bank and his team were doing very good work but it went nowhere. The FSA had insufficient focus on its roles as the microprudential regulator and the conduct regulator. This is why the Bill creates two new focused regulators. There was also a lack of clarity in the run-up to the crisis and the way in which it hit.

This has been a wide-ranging debate, for which I am very grateful. The provisions in the Bill have already undergone a great deal of scrutiny—three rounds of public consultation, pre-legislative scrutiny, the attention of the Treasury Committee and its passage through another place. The Government have already shown that they are flexible and committed to making the Bill as good as it can be by amending it in response. It is already strong legislation, but I look forward to the further informed challenge that I know I will get from your Lordships in Committee and to the opportunity to improve the Bill still further. However, for now, I ask the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.

[Lord Northbrook]

Will the Minister write to me and the other Members who asked about strengthening the powers of the Court of the Bank of England and of non-executive members on the regulatory bodies?

[Lord Sassoon]

I have already said that we will go through the whole debate and respond on a range of issues that have not been picked up in my response.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, I fully support the coalition's plan to cut the budget deficit as being its most important economic aim. If the coalition had not tackled this we could have been in the same state as Greece. Much progress has been made on this front. When the Government came to power, the outturn for that year of net borrowing stood at £156 billion. The final 2011-12 figures showed that it had gone down to £126 billion as per the Government's target.

The success of the conventional gilts auctions so far this month, which have already raised £9 billion at a most favourable rate of interest, shows that the markets have faith in our debt reduction policy, which is so important. The CBI has given its seal of approval to the Government’s economic policies. Its economist has stated that there will be a small recovery this year of 0.6% and a much better improvement in 2013, when the figure will be 2%. The CBI is also confident that inflation will continue on a downward trend and come close to hitting the Government's target of 2% in the spring of 2013. It believes that consumer spending will recover as inflation falls further and disposable incomes begin to recover.

John Cridland, the director-general, also said at the start of May:

“Despite the disappointing GDP estimate for the first quarter from the ONS, we still think the UK economy will grow in 2012, with faster growth next year. Optimism among businesses has been increasing since the turn of the year, with manufacturing demand holding up. And that is beginning to translate into more jobs and investment”.

The IMF is also fairly upbeat. In April it upgraded its economic forecast for 2012 growth to 0.8%. It cited the colossal efforts in February to avert eurozone meltdown by the European Central Bank when it extended cheap lending to banks. As other noble Lords have stated, we had two bits of very good news today on the employment front and on motor sales. But this can be built on to help business at this critical stage, particularly when things in Europe are bound to get a lot worse.

On Monday, the Prime Minister played host to his Business Advisory Group. Key players such as Justin King of Sainsbury’s have urged the Government to implement in full the schemes that they had and were given.

According to the Sunday Times on 13 May, a report on reforming employment law was drawn up by Apax Partners but was buried on the grounds that it was too controversial. A bonfire of regulations has also been promised, but few businesses report any relaxation in red tape. Indeed, the Government in their own Regulatory Policy Committee 2011 annual report state that the,

“number of regulatory proposals deemed ‘Not fit for purpose’ remains unsatisfactory”.

The report goes on to state that over a quarter of impact assessments failed to pass the RPC test.

The next problem area is the banks. They have two conflicts. First, the Government want them to increase their lending. However, that clashes with their need to build up capital. The Independent Banking Commission requires them to hold much more capital than their foreign rivals. The Bank of England’s new Financial Policy Committee said recently that banks should,

“give serious consideration to raising external capital in the coming months”,

and,

“improve the resilience of their balance sheets”.

Much more needs to be done to sort out this dichotomy so that the UK economy is not placed at a competitive disadvantage to other countries’ banks. Yet this does not excuse the attitude of some banks with regard to lending to smaller companies. The £20 billion national loan guarantee scheme began in March. It enables government-subsidised cheaper loans to companies but apparently the major bank, Santander, has yet to offer this lifeline to its customers, and Lloyds is offering discounts only on loans above £25,000. The Forum of Private Business is unhappy with this situation. Its spokesman said yesterday that:

“This is massively disappointing. We said all along that we had serious doubts whether the smallest firms most in need of cheaper credit would benefit from this scheme”.

Could the Minister please assure the House that more pressure should be put on the likes of Santander and Lloyds, and let me know how much of the £20 billion of the scheme has been taken up?

The banks also have to face in the background the problems of the eurozone. We do not know whether the Greek political parties may be able to form a Government after the election that can put through the necessary measures to meet the requirements of the EU and IMF loans. The European Union has to decide whether to give in yet again and come up with another compromise, or that there has to be an early exit of Greece from the euro. It would be much better if an early exit of Greece from the euro were to be organised quickly and in confidence, up to the point when the necessary announcements must be made.

I move on next to the subject of quantitative easing. I am not an economist, but it has been suggested that the QE scheme is not being used fully for what it was designed for. When it was set up, the Bank of England said it would be used for corporate bond purchases as well as gilts. That has not happened. Would it not help the economy much more if QE was switched more towards corporate bond purchases, and what are the risks of so doing? The operation seems designed to help more with debt management issues rather than corporations.

The Government need to cut taxes further. Corporation tax remains high in the UK compared with other countries in the G20. We still rank behind Canada, Mexico, China and Turkey in terms of business taxes. I welcome the Chancellor’s decision to cut corporation tax in the Budget, but we are still only in the middle of the G20 pack, according to the CBI. If we are to encourage manufacturing, why not increase the rate of capital allowances? Also, the top rate of personal tax should be reduced to 40% as soon as possible.

Employee measures contained in the Queen’s Speech are unhelpful to industry. The proposed well-meaning sharing of maternity leave will cause a bureaucratic nightmare and certainly discourage any employment of a husband and partner in a business. Anecdotally, I hear that small business employers are less keen to employ a woman of child-bearing age due to not having the infrastructure to cope.

In summary, the coalition are making all the right moves with regard to the most important issue of deficit reduction, but much more needs to be done to stimulate the economy without resorting to a Keynesian stimulus which could endanger our credit status and make it so much more difficult to get rid of the terrible debt burden that we inherited from the last Government.

Value Added Tax: Listed Places of Worship

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Northbrook]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will reconsider the extension of the standard rate of VAT to alterations to listed places of worship and the restriction on the amount of VAT claimable on repairs to those places.

[The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)]

My Lords, the Budget removes a VAT distinction, which is notoriously difficult to apply in practice, between alterations to protected buildings, which include listed places of worship, and repairs to all buildings. The listed places of worship grant scheme, which makes grants towards the VAT incurred on works of repair and maintenance for listed places of worship, currently allocates £12 million a year. We are exploring options with the church authorities, including committing more money to the scheme, so that listed places of worship are not adversely affected by the Budget proposal.

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman of my local listed church restoration committee. What progress was made at the meeting yesterday between church leaders and the Treasury to mitigate the reported £20 million VAT effect of these measures for listed churches, which is causing concern for church building projects throughout the land?

[Lord Sassoon]

I am grateful to my noble friend for pointing out that there was an important meeting on this topic yesterday, led by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London and my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. My understanding is that they had a very open and constructive discussion. The Chancellor made it clear that the £5 million which the Government have committed to the listed places of worship grant scheme in the Budget is on top of the £12 million which the scheme already had. We accept, having seen the churches’ numbers, that the VAT change will indeed be more than £5 million and that we need to commit more money, and discussions will continue next week to look at what the projected numbers and our commitment should be.

Economy: Budget Statement

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Desai. I welcome the opportunity to take note of the UK economy in light of the Budget. First, I will look at the general UK economic background and then I will move on to look at specific measures in the Budget.

Initial comments on the Budget forecasts have in general endorsed the OBR inflation forecasts, which state that it will fall back sharply though the remainder of 2012 and ease further to be close to the 2 per cent target from early 2013, as the upward pressure from commodity prices eases and spare capacity weighs upon inflation. Growth forecasts have given rise to more criticism. It is good news that the OBR has revised upward slightly the forecast for this year to 0.8 per cent, although commentators feel that the 2013, 2014 and 2015 forecasts could be a little optimistic. However, the forecasts are supported by the Bank of England, which says that the UK will avoid recession.

The Chancellor and the Minister are quite right to draw attention to two jokers in the pack, which could significantly affect the forecasts. First, there is the OBR euro area growth downgrade by 0.8 per cent. Secondly, there is the problem of a further spike in the oil price due to the Iranian situation but I hope that this might be lessened by further Saudi release of oil production on to the markets.

The budget deficit too is forecast to decrease. The Chancellor must be given credit for sticking to his guns and bringing this down. His forecast of £126 billion is £1 billion better than at the time of the Autumn Statement. Yesterday’s borrowing figures, however, although covering only a month, show that there can be no cause for complacency going forward. The Chancellor will need to continue with his fine determination to get this figure down to £21 billion, as forecast, by 2016-17 when the structural deficit, he states, will be eliminated.

Here, I should like to take issue with the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, in his opening remarks. He stated that there was not a particular crisis in the finances before the banking crisis. However, I think that the debt figure of £36 billion was already breaking the Government’s own rules. I should also like to draw his attention to a speech made by the noble Lord, Lord Myners, when he said:

“There is nothing progressive about a Government who consistently spend more than they can raise in taxation, and certainly nothing progressive that endows generations to come with the liabilities incurred by the current generation. There will need to be significant cuts in public expenditure, but there is considerable waste in public expenditure”.—[Official Report, 8/6/10; col. 625.]

The shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, has stated that there can be no let-up or any reversal of the cuts of the Government.

How does the overall Budget help the Chancellor’s plans? According to table 1 in the OBR fiscal and economic outlook, the total fiscal impact to 2016-17, as a result of the policy decisions, will be about broadly neutral. As a result, much on the expenditure front needs to be done to get the deficit down. The Chancellor has said that if, in the next spending review, the Government maintain the same rate of reductions in departmental spending as they have done in this review, a further £10 billion of savings would have to be made to welfare by 2016. That is a challenging task.

The IFS green budget states that,

“the spending cuts are still to come”,

and that only 12 per cent of the planned total cuts to public service spending, and just 6 per cent of the cuts in current spending, will have been implemented by the end of this financial year. Page 67 of its report compares the size of the cuts planned to those of other economies. Over the next few years, the UK currently has the fifth-largest planned reduction in public expenditure as a share of national income. Only Iceland, Greece, Estonia and Ireland are planning larger cuts. They are large by historic standards. The Government’s plans will be the tightest seven-year period for spending on public services since the Second World War. Over the period April 2010 to March 2017, there will be a cumulative real-terms cut of 16 per cent, which is considerably greater than the nearly 9 per cent cut achieved from 1975 to 1982. The challenge is great but I am sure that the Chancellor will make every endeavour to achieve it.

There is much to praise about this year’s Budget. First, I would highlight the decision to cut the top rate of income tax from 50 per cent to 45 per cent. This sends a good signal to business and wealth creators. Secondly, I fully endorse the planned lowering of corporation tax. Again, this sends out a good message to entrepreneurs who should also benefit from the £20 billion national loan guarantee scheme. I also applaud the move to consult on a new cash basis for calculating tax for firms with a turnover of up to £77,000. Any move like that will make filling in tax returns dramatically simpler for up to 3 million firms, which must be a good thing and helpful to business.

For individuals I shall highlight two areas. First, the adjustment to the cliff edge withdrawal of child benefit was long overdue. The second area is the increase in personal allowances to £9,205 from next year. That is a positive step. Other measures in the Budget may not have an immediate effect, but could be a useful long-term help to the UK economy. The decision to relax the planning laws to encourage sustainable development should help business. In addition, moves to encourage the life sciences, aerospace and technology sectors are helpful. There are a few measures that I am less certain about. The abolition of the additional age-related allowance seems to have caused quite a stir, even though, as the noble Lord, Lord Newby, stated, it is made up for by the increase in the pension.

On a separate theme, could I ask my noble friend about the figures in table A1 for oil companies over the next five years with the change to North Sea oil and gas decommissioning? I see that it is going to cost the industry a net £1,145 billion over the next five years, which is a substantial figure. Are those figures due to last year’s Budget? Also, where does the most welcome £3 billion new field allowance for large and deep fields west of Shetland come in table A1? I can only see figures for the first two years.

While some commentators have criticised the increase in stamp duty, I find myself less concerned about it, particularly with the plan to clamp down on offshore companies avoiding the duty. Clearly this hits central London hard, so as long as the knock-on effects have been thought through, such as the effect on building work in London, I see no problem with it. Likewise, on the introduction of the general anti-avoidance rule, I take on board the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, on this. It is right to press ahead with a narrowly targeted GAAR aimed at truly artificial schemes, but supporting guidance must be practical for taxpayers as well as HMRC.

Two other areas give me cause for concern, the first of which is the 3p rise in fuel duty that is due later in the summer. This will not help the beleaguered motorist as prices are at record highs. The Government may correctly say that the price of oil is beyond their control, but I do not see why the increases cannot be delayed. Can the Minister say how much this will raise in tax? The other issue I am not happy with is the extra 300,000 people who will be dragged into the top rate of tax as the threshold for the higher rate is reduced to counteract the effect of higher personal allowances. In addition, there are still anomalies of high marginal rates for taxpayers with children and an income of between £50,000 and £60,000 and between £100,000 and £118,000, according to today’s Financial Times.

Overall, I commend the Chancellor on his Budget and for sticking to his last in cutting the budget deficit, offering sensible tax rates to individuals and companies, and setting in place longer-term projects to encourage the return of growth.

Individual Savings Accounts: AIM Shares

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Northbrook]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will reconsider their decision not to allow shares traded on the Alternative Investment Market to be eligible for Individual Savings Accounts.

[The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)]

My Lords, individual savings accounts, or ISAs, are the Government’s main tax incentive for non-pensions savings, and they offer a simple, straightforward and trusted brand. The Government believe it is important that ISAs continue to hold these characteristics. AIM shares tend to present a higher level of risk, and can be less liquid. For those reasons, the Government do not intend to make them an eligible investment for the ISA wrapper.

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer, which once again is disappointing. I thought that the policy of the coalition Government was to encourage personal choice and, indeed, investment in our smaller and growing companies. The arguments for including AIM stocks in ISAs are very strong. They are supported by the Stock Exchange and the Quoted Companies Alliance, as they were by noble Lords on all sides of the House when the question was raised a year ago. Their eligibility would widen the shareholder base, improve liquidity and facilitate fund-raising. What is the logic of AIM stocks being included in SIPPs but not in ISAs?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, this is a Question that we come back to on a regular basis and my answers are going to sound boringly repetitive. I see the noble Lord, Lord Myners, in his place. He answered this Question in the dying days of the previous Government. The simple fact is that the ISA is a trusted brand in which more than 23 million adults—45 per cent of the adult population—hold shares, and we need to protect that trusted brand and the suite of products within it. On the other hand, the Government have taken a range of measures to support small businesses. In relation to SIPPs, the liquidity requirements of an ISA with a 30-day withdrawal period, in particular, are very different from what might be the case when locking up shares for the long term in a pension savings product.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Monday 18th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, it is interesting how the noble Lord, Lord Myners, praised Alistair Darling in his opening speech but not the previous Chancellor’s budget deficit expansion. I should like to remind the House that in an interview in August last year, he reflected that the Labour Government had abandoned fiscal responsibility; that Gordon Brown “grew to forget” the golden rule; that Labour ran large deficits in the middle part of the previous decade when the economy was clearly running at full capacity; that the party needed to come clean on what cuts it would make; and that it needed to prove once again that it is a credible party of economic management. The noble Lord criticised the current shadow Chancellor. He said:

“I don't agree with Ed Balls. I do think the Labour party has to wrestle with the fact that it tends to leave office with large deficits. And I think its licence to govern is … weakened in the future—if it could not produce credible arguments … that it is capable of sound economic management through the cycle”.

The country is still recovering from the debt binge.

Once again, we are assembled here to debate the Finance (No. 3) Bill, the majority of which I support. We are also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market, and his committee for their excellent report, which again generally speaks favourably of the Finance (No. 3) Bill. His report applauds the introduction of a new approach to tax policy-making by the coalition Government with the aim of bringing about a clearer, more stable and more predictable tax system. This approach seeks to produce better tax legislation and more effective scrutiny of tax changes. I agree with the report’s conclusion that this has produced a Bill, the content of which has generally reflected early and fuller consideration than in the past. The report quotes two good examples of this with which I fully concur—first, corporation tax reform and, secondly, the area of changes to pensions tax relief.

However, the report rightly is critical of two other areas where this new approach has not been adopted. There is disguised remuneration. The new provisions against tax avoidance in this area take up no fewer than 60 pages of new legislation. Surely this would not have been necessary had there been more consultation beforehand. Likewise came the change to the oil and gas tax regime by way of the supplementary charge. No consultation had been made with either industry. It was not until there was a great deal of criticism that exploration in these areas would be seriously affected that at the last minute the announcement was made of an extension to the ring-fence expenditure supplement, which has persuaded companies like Statoil to resume its drilling projects.

Before moving to considering the Finance (No. 3) Bill as a whole, I wish to congratulate the Chancellor on his vigorous approach in tackling the appalling legacy of the Budget deficit left to us by the Labour Government. This had to be the first economic priority after the election. His deficit reduction policies have been approved by a whole range of organisations, including the IMF, the European Commission, the OECD, the Fitch rating agency and Timothy Geithner, the US Treasury Secretary.

Looking at the Finance (No. 3) Bill in more detail, first, I shall focus on help for businesses. I welcome the reduction in corporation tax for large companies from April this year, the reforms to the foreign profits legislation, the announcement of new enterprise zones and the proposed low rate of corporation tax for offshore finance companies. That will all be good news for larger companies. Moreover, the Chancellor has dealt a very generous hand to VCTs and EIS investors, increasing the tax relief and the amount of investment while rightly warning against abuse of the rules. The slight improvement in the capital allowance regime for short-term assets is good news. Those positive aspects of the Budget far outweigh the negative ones for a few sectors of the economy. Terry Scuoler chief executive of the EEF, the manufacturers’ association, while praising the Budget in the main, said that,

“the significant rise in energy bills threatened by the Carbon Price Floor is unwelcome”.

For smaller unincorporated businesses, the news on the tax front is more mixed. They should benefit from easier planning laws. They should also be helped by the decision to support innovation and manufacturing, with an additional £100 million this year for new science facilities and an increase in the SME rate of research and development tax credit over the next few years. However, two areas are definitely not to their advantage. The 50p income tax rate needs to be reduced as soon as possible, and the Equalities Act could well cause problems in taking on staff.

Regulation is also a major area of difficulty which I shall examine in more detail. For those not familiar with it, a new Cabinet sub-committee called the Reducing Regulation Committee was established after the coalition came to power. The committee has to review the quality and robustness of regulatory proposals. Astonishingly, its second report, which covers the period between September and December 2010, concludes that more than 40 per cent of the regulatory proposals that it considered were not fit for purpose. The main failing was a failure to produce cost-benefit analyses of proposals. This all might sound rather esoteric but is very important. If regulations are being spewed out that do not make sense, it is a big hindrance, especially to smaller businesses which do not have the back-office ability to cope with them all.

Let me give another example of difficulties for a smaller business. A friend of mine who is involved in a growing smaller company has been given the opportunity to pay his tax in instalments. However, something has recently gone wrong with the Revenue’s computer system which means that he has been asked to pay all his tax at once. He rang up the local Revenue office, which is a nightmare process, and took more than an hour to get through to anyone sensible. He was then told that this was an administrative mistake and that he need not worry. I fear that this may have happened to a lot of small businesses. Has the Minister come across any other cases in this area?

Overall, I welcome the Finance (No. 3) Bill 2011. The Chancellor has a difficult hand to play and progress may appear to be uneven at times. But his message is clear: Britain is open for business and it has produced major incentives to companies and individuals to create wealth, which I believe is the right approach for the economy.

[Lord Myners]

The noble Lord listed a number of organisations which endorsed the Chancellor’s strategy. Can he remind the House whether any of those organisations were successful in forecasting the crisis that hit us in 2007, including the credit rating agencies to which he referred?

[Lord Northbrook]

I would have to refer back to the noble Lord on those matters.