Financial Services Bill

Lord Northbrook Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbrook]

My Lords, when the banking crisis hit the UK in 2007 and 2008, no one knew who was in charge. The tripartite authorities took a minimalist view of their respective responsibilities and necessary action fell between three stools. Thus, they failed to maintain financial stability. The tripartite system tried to segregate the regulation of banks from the management of the economy as a whole. I believe we must treat them as one part of a whole system.

The decision to turn the Bank of England into a monetary authority was good, but it was wrong to separate out regulation into the FSA as a micro-regulator. This was likely to fail because no one was in charge of the size of banks’ balance sheets—not only in the bust, as we well know, but in the boom as well. The Bill reunites the banks and other financial institutions as part of one system and I strongly recommend this.

I will not oppose the structure of the new financial regulators, but will concentrate on possible amendments to the legislation. I emphasise, as have many other noble Lords, that a major part of the remit of either the MPC or the FPC—I am not quite sure which—should be to encourage economic growth, and that the words “reasonable” and “fair” should be added to “proportionate” in new Clause 3B on page 28. Also, the PRA should appoint practitioner and consumer panels, as well as hold a public meeting to discuss its annual report, as the FSA does.

I also approve of the amount of consultation undertaken by the Government on these proposals. The changes made to the Bill as a result are most welcome. However, it is very important that the proposed supervisory bodies co-ordinate to represent effectively our national interest at European and international levels, including with European supervisory authorities. The financial services industry, the Government and the UK regulatory authorities all have important roles to play in representing the UK in international discussions on financial regulation. However, I draw attention to paragraph 366 of the Select Committee report, which, as many noble Lords have said, states:

“Successful regulation depends more on the regulatory culture, focus and philosophy than on structure”.

As the noble Lord, Lord Desai, said, if regulators cannot understand the risks, no regulatory system will be sound. If the company management cannot understand them, that is even worse.

As usual these days, the other place was given far too little time to scrutinise the Bill. In the rest of my remarks, I will focus on areas of MPs’ concern that are still outstanding, especially those noted by the head of the Treasury Select Committee, Andrew Tyrie. The first concern, as many noble Lords have mentioned, is over the Court of the Bank of England. On Report in another place, a new clause was proposed to make the court more transparent and to require it to act more like a proper board. In my view, the Bank must have a board that is capable of assessing the institution’s performance, but it is explicitly prohibited from doing so at present. The Minister in the other place responded favourably to this idea. Perhaps I may ask the Minister what amendments he might be tabling here.

The second concern was that the appointment and dismissal of the governor would benefit from a parliamentary veto. I can see the attraction of this as, for instance, it might have prevented the appointment of rather weak governors as took place in the 1980s. A fixed term of eight years might be appropriate.

Thirdly, the Financial Policy Committee and the court should publish full minutes. Currently, the Government have said that a so-called record should be published. This has not satisfied the Treasury Select Committee and I agree. Fourthly, as the noble Lord, Lord Burns, has just said, the Chancellor needs a general power to direct the Bank of England in a crisis where public funds are at stake, and not the rather strictly circumscribed powers that the Bill contains.

Fifthly, there needs to be enhanced scrutiny of the secondary legislation that will accompany the Bank of England’s macroprudential tools. The Treasury Select Committee wants a super-affirmative procedure, as mentioned by my noble friend Lady Noakes. I agree that we must have something which provides for full debate and time to consider the proposals except in emergencies.

Sixthly, the MPC and the FPC should have a majority of external members. The Treasury Select Committee feels that it is vital in the long term to guard against “group-think” on these committees, with which I agree. Seventhly, we need to look at the Financial Conduct Authority’s objectives. The FCA would work better if it focused on a simple set of objectives. The Government in the other place added to the proposals what they describe as overarching strategic objectives. But the Treasury Select Committee feels that they add nothing to the operational objectives in the Bill and might take something away by creating confusion.

Eighthly, the FCA’s accountability mechanisms need strengthening. The FCA should publish its own minutes, its chief executive should be subject to pre-appointment scrutiny and it should review its own performance without the need of the Treasury Select Committee to force it to do so. The committee managed to get the FSA to review the collapse of RBS but, apparently, it was hard work getting it to do so.

Finally, I should like to turn to the four specific issues on which I should like the FSA and its successors to focus. The first is to avoid a repeat of the MF Global saga—the derivative trader which collapsed in October 2010. Amazingly, the organisation was considered to be outside the scope of the regulatory authority, yet its balance sheet was more than £40 billion. The capital flows between the UK and the USA were huge and there now appears to be issues of insider trading. Unless there is more co-ordination between national regulators there will be more of these crises.

Secondly, we have the Arch Cru type of problem. Arch Cru was established in 2006 and was sold as a vehicle to provide low-risk cautious management funds. It is reminiscent of Bernie Madoff’s venture. Like all investment funds, it was regulated by the FSA. Needless to say, it invested in high-risk property, shipping and ferries. Clause 64(5) states that events occurring prior to December 2001 will not be subject to the power of inquiry. As I understand it, the Government still have the power to institute an inquiry under Section 14 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000. I hope that they will still make use of that power and that the FCA will pay particular attention to these types of “low-risk” organisations.

Thirdly, there is the problem of payday loans. While this may be a good and necessary route for very short-term loans, they can become a very dangerous process if allowed to continue for too long. Legislation may be difficult in this area, particularly when borrowers may not get loan finance anywhere else. I hope that the OFT investigation announced in February will produce positive results to allow reputable payday loan companies to continue but, as the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham said, to ban loan sharks. Fourthly, like many others I am sure, I seem to be continually pestered by the PPI ambulance chasers. Even though I am ex-directory I get two or three calls a day. Cannot this cold calling practice be outlawed?

Overall, this legislation is a big step forward from the legislative framework that was in place at the time of the crash and I hope that my suggestions will help to improve the Bill further.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)]

My Lords, this debate has been every bit as rigorous and illuminating as I expected and I thank your Lordships for approaching the Bill in a thoroughly constructive and thoughtful manner. We have had many useful contributions during the afternoon and evening. Some I would characterise as sighting shots, and we had a few opening barrages. I thank in particular the noble Lord, Lord O’Donnell, for his characteristically clear, focused and constructive maiden speech, which certainly contained a number of well aimed rifle shots.

I was delighted that my noble friends who are former Chancellors welcomed the Bill. I was also pleased that at the start of the debate the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, said that the fundamental thinking behind the Bill was well founded. Noble Lords who have direct experience of operating within the current structure, including the noble Lords, Lord Myners and Lord Burns, recognised that the tripartite system had not lived up to expectations, to use their measured terms. We have a major piece of legislation in front of us, the importance of which is widely recognised.

Before I get into the detail of some of the points that have been made, I wish to say a few words about the form of the Bill, as speakers, including the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, and the noble Baroness, Lady Cohen of Pimlico, questioned the way in which it had been written as amending legislation as opposed to a wholesale rewrite of FSMA and other legislation. We thought about this approach very carefully. I appreciate that the Bill in its present form is not easy for any of us, but it is an approach that has been widely supported by consultation respondents and will minimise the extent to which regulated firms and other users of FSMA have to deal with legislative change. It should also allow for more focused scrutiny in this House and by stakeholders of the key changes in the regulatory regime. However, as I am sure noble Lords are aware, the Government have published a consolidated version of FSMA to help to show explicitly what the legislation will look like once it is amended by this Bill. That is available on the Treasury website.

I wish to make one other preliminary remark before we get into the content of the Bill. I noted the very interesting suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord O’Donnell, of having a standing Joint Committee to assess the new framework. It is an interesting idea but it is for Parliament and not the Government to decide how best to organise its scrutiny activities. However, I repeat that the quality of the Joint Committee’s work in scrutinising the new arrangements underlines the noble Lord’s point. It was good to hear from members of that committee in the debate, such as my noble friend Lady Wheatcroft, the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, and the noble Lord, Lord McFall of Alcluith. However, I am very sorry, as I am sure is the whole House, that we have been robbed of the wisdom of my former noble friend Lord Maples, who would have very much enriched today’s debate.

The hour is late. I will not take this opportunity to read a fully formed speech highlighting again why the Bill is so important to protect the UK financial services sector and the wider economy. I could reiterate the arguments, but I will use the time to answer as many of the points that have been brought up as I can. I will have to leave many others on the table for future discussion or letters as appropriate.

I have tried to group together the points. First, I shall pick up some of the issues on the overall architecture and the cross-cutting issues. Then I will address some of the points on the Bank of England, the FPC objectives and bank governance, and another area where many important points were raised concerning access to financial services, as well as one or two of the international issues that were raised.

On the overall architecture and some of the cross-cutting issues in the Bill, a point that was very clearly made by a number of noble Lords, including my noble friends Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Lamont of Lerwick, is the question of judgment and culture—architecture versus institutions. Many speakers have made the point that the culture of regulators is more important than institutional architecture. I agree of course that culture is vital but, as the noble Baroness, Lady Cohen of Pimlico, noted, architecture also matters. That is precisely why we are implementing these reforms to put in place an institutional framework that will allow a culture of focused expertise and judgment to flourish separately and distinctively within the new PRA and the FCA. That is reinforced in the Bill by, for example, imposing the legal duty to supervise firms, which will require the two bodies to develop and promote a culture of supervisory judgment.

There were questions about what is characterised as twin-peaks regulation. I do not like that tag but let me now use it for simplicity. The importance of co-ordination between the PRA and the FCA has been stressed by my noble friend Lady Kramer and others. We agree that this is important. That is why we have proposed cross-membership of the boards of the PRA and the FCA, and it is why there is a statutory duty to co-ordinate the requirement to prepare a memorandum of understanding. These issues have been thought about.

Let us be clear on another issue of co-ordination, which relates to crisis management and particularly the involvement of the Treasury. That issue was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Eatwell and Lord Burns, my noble friend Lady Noakes, and others. The Bill places the Bank under a hard legal duty to notify the Treasury of a risk to public funds. It is a duty that applies regardless of the amount at risk or the Bank’s opinion on what should be done. That is at odds with what I heard from some noble Lords who addressed this point. The MoU also makes it clear that, if there is any doubt, the Bank must notify. The MoU also allows the Treasury to require the Bank to consider making a notification in response to a specific risk or situation.

On one or two other cross-cutting issues, the importance of cost control and proportionality was raised by a significant number of speakers, including my noble friends Lord Flight and Lord Naseby, and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria. The Government agree that cost control and proportionality are fundamental. The PRA and the FCA are required to have regard to proportionality. Both regulators are of course required to carry out cost-benefit analyses and to consult on their rules, as one would expect, but there are a number of areas in which the Bill goes further than previous practice. For example, for the first time, the financial services regulators are subject to National Audit Office audit, and the NAO is able to conduct value-for-money studies. That is something new in the structure to be introduced.

There were one or two specific questions on the scope of regulation. My noble friend Lord Flight asked about life companies and observed that they are very different from banks. I certainly agree with my noble friend on that, and it is precisely why we have a different insurance objective for the PRA and explicit provision covering the PRA’s duties in the regulation of with-profits policies. My noble friend Lord Teverson raised a question on rating agencies. The reason why they are not addressed directly in the Bill is that they are now a European competence, and the lead is taken by one of the three European bodies—ESMA—with the Commission.

Two other important areas concerning scope were raised. A number of speakers, including the noble Lord, Lord McFall of Alcluith, my noble friends Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lady Wheatcroft, and others, talked about bank auditors. As with other topics, I cannot do this justice this evening. I simply remind the House that responsibility for looking after auditors and their regulation remains with the Financial Reporting Council, and so it is not part of the Bill. The FRC is doing a significant amount of work around the scope of audit. I was pleased that my noble friend recognised that we had picked up one important issue, going back to his legislation. The practice of dialogue between auditors and regulators, which needs to be addressed, is now in the code of practice, although I heard the suggestion that it might be embodied in the legislation.

Lastly in this area, the question of central counterparty clearing houses—another important issue—was raised by my noble friend Lady Kramer. I remind the House that there is an important European directive coming in this area—the so-called EMIR, the European Market Infrastructure Regulation—which aims to reduce systemic risk in the OTC derivatives space. We want to make sure that what we are doing in the UK fits with the architecture of EMIR, which will itself be directly applicable in the UK. I suggest that we do not want to fall into the trap of super-equivalence. On the other hand, there are provisions in the Bill for rules to be made that fit within the developing architecture of EMIR.

I turn to some of the issues concerning the Bank of England’s FPC bank governance. First, on the question of the FPC and its objective, the Government recognise that the pursuit of financial stability needs to be balanced against the wider contribution of the financial system to economic growth. As I explained at the outset, the Bill seeks to provide this balance by requiring the FPC to have regard to the proportionality of its actions and by preventing it taking any action that would have a significant adverse impact on sustainable economic growth. Having said that, I listened very carefully to the significant number of noble Lords who pointed out that there should be more recognition of growth in the FPC objective. I have already mentioned many of the speakers who addressed that point but the others included the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, who did so in his characteristic way. I cannot promise any amendments in this area. I listened very carefully but I certainly cannot promise one that directs the FPC to have specific regard to the interests of the Lower Lea Valley, although I think that the House heard very clearly all the great things that are going on there. However, I listened to the points that were made.

Points were also raised concerning co-ordination. On the one hand, the Bill is solving the co-ordination problems by making the Bank and the governor responsible for what some characterised as everything; on the other hand, that presents challenges not only for the person of the governor but for bankers and institutions—something that my noble friend Lord Tugendhat and others brought up. Of course, I certainly accept that monetary policy, financial stability policy and prudential regulation are intimately connected. That is why having these responsibilities under one roof is the best way to ensure that co-ordination. Within that framework, in each role the governor does not act alone but is supported by external and non-executive members and others.

There were other points made by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham and others on Bank of England governance. I said again at the outset that this is an area in which the Government recognise the need to go further, and I have listened to what has been said tonight. I was grateful to my noble friend Lord Stewartby for pointing out some of the lessons from the Board of Banking Supervision and for recognising that we cannot expect to pick up exactly what it was. However, I believe that the lessons from that experience have been picked up in the design of the PRA board. On the power of direction, I heard speakers say that they believed it to be too constrained. I do not believe that that is the case in relation to the scope that it has in special support operations and the provision of emergency liquidity in relation to the special resolution regime, but I am sure that this is something that we will come back to.

Let me turn to a few remarks about issues on access to financial services. I will be unable to do them full justice, but there were issues around diversity of provision—specifically on mutuals. The coalition agreement makes clear the Government’s commitment on mutuals. The Bill requires regulators to analyse the effect of their rules on mutuals, which is a new measure that will help to ensure the fair treatment that we want. The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and the right reverend Prelate raised questions about the inclusion and universal provision of financial services. They are very important questions but they are essentially questions of social policy, so are for the Government and not directly for the regulatory structure. On SME lending and questions asked by my noble friend Lord Sharkey and others, the Government are taking significant action, which we have discussed before, outside the framework of this legislation to ensure the flow of lending to SMEs. That work will continue.

In another related area, my noble friend Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts talked about the importance of social impact investors. I agree with that but I question the role of the legislation that we are talking about in that area. On consumer credit regulation—important points were made again from my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral and others—the Government are committed to designing a proportionate model of FCA regulation for the sector. The Government will consult on this and detailed proposals will come forward early in 2013. My noble friend raised the question of self-regulation. I agree with him that self-regulation which is credible, transparent and effective is an important complement to statutory regulation. The FSA is at the moment looking at different industry codes in the credit industry considering whether, and if so, how they can be incorporated into the new FCA regime.

On payday loans, which was addressed by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, the right reverend Prelate, and others, we are awaiting the research being done by Bristol University’s Personal Finance Research Centre at the impact on consumers and business of introducing a cap on the total cost of credit—not an easy topic. The final report is on course to be published this summer.

Finally in this area, I will address briefly the question of peer-to-peer lending raised by my noble friend Lord Lucas and others. The Government do not think that statutory regulation is appropriate at this point. The sector is very small and such regulation would be a barrier to new entrants and innovation. However, this is a matter that we will keep under review, and I am grateful to my noble friend for raising it.

On confidential information and its disclosure, I was asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, about the FSA review. If the FSA concludes as a result of the review that changes to primary legislation are needed, we will consider the proposals very carefully and bring forward legislation as appropriate. It is an important issue.

A couple of points were made on the international front, which clearly is highly relevant. The first concerned the mismatch between the architecture in the UK and the developing architecture in Europe. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Valentine, that this House probably would not want to abolish imperial measures. Certainly I do not want to abolish them. On financial supervisory architecture, we must design something that is appropriate to the UK. I draw the attention of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter of Kentish Town, to the broad consensus in the evidence given to the Joint Committee that having a different regulatory structure to that of the European supervisory authorities would not present any issues for the UK authorities either in representing UK interests or in the way that firms in the UK are regulated.

I am sure that we will come back at length to the question of international competitiveness that was raised by my noble friend Lord Trenchard and others. The Government’s position is that it is what the regulators—the FCA and the PRA—do that will make the difference in determining whether the UK is or is not a competitive place in which to do business, not having a statement about competitiveness. It will be the high regulatory standards and the stability of the financial sector to which these will contribute—the reliability, fairness and consistency of regulation—that will be important in maintaining and driving forward the attractiveness and competitiveness of London. It is those issues that will address the substance of the point.

A challenge was thrown down at a number of points in the debate. The noble Lords, Lord Bilimoria, Lord Barnett and Lord Burns, asked whether this structure would have prevented the recent crisis. In my opening remarks I did not mean to say—and did not say—that the structure was the direct cause of the crisis. Of course the principal cause was the behaviour of firms. However, I was in the structure between 2003 and 2005, and I know that that behaviour contributed to the severity of the impact of the crisis in the UK. No one had the responsibility, the authority or the tools to monitor the system as a whole in the way that will be provided for in the FPC. I sat in the monthly meetings of the tripartite deputies at which the stability side of the Bank, which was being significantly reduced, nevertheless came forward with very good analyses of some of the problems that were welling up.

This was in 2005; I did not have the benefit of seeing what happened in 2006 or 2007. However, the analysis was brought forward but the Bank did not take it upon itself to do anything with it, and the FSA did not take away the lessons from the analysis. The deputy governor of the Bank and his team were doing very good work but it went nowhere. The FSA had insufficient focus on its roles as the microprudential regulator and the conduct regulator. This is why the Bill creates two new focused regulators. There was also a lack of clarity in the run-up to the crisis and the way in which it hit.

This has been a wide-ranging debate, for which I am very grateful. The provisions in the Bill have already undergone a great deal of scrutiny—three rounds of public consultation, pre-legislative scrutiny, the attention of the Treasury Committee and its passage through another place. The Government have already shown that they are flexible and committed to making the Bill as good as it can be by amending it in response. It is already strong legislation, but I look forward to the further informed challenge that I know I will get from your Lordships in Committee and to the opportunity to improve the Bill still further. However, for now, I ask the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.

[Lord Northbrook]

Will the Minister write to me and the other Members who asked about strengthening the powers of the Court of the Bank of England and of non-executive members on the regulatory bodies?

[Lord Sassoon]

I have already said that we will go through the whole debate and respond on a range of issues that have not been picked up in my response.