Education and Adoption Bill

Lord Nash Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Grand Committee

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

Is the noble Baroness seriously saying that the only failing academies are ones that have just transferred?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)]

No, we are not saying that.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

Quite.

[Lord Nash]

The answer to the noble Lord’s question is that we are not saying that, obviously; but as we made clear ad nauseam the last time we were here, there have been 1,500 failing maintained schools converted to academies, many of them very recently, all of which have been performing badly, many of them for years, under local authority-maintained status.

[Baroness Morris of Yardley (Lab)]

But it is also agreed that one in seven of the schools that converted from the maintained sector as excellent or outstanding stand-alone academies went on to require improvement or serious measures.

[Lord Nash]

We can bat around statistics on this for ever but, in fact, the converted academies are doing considerably better than local authority-maintained schools.

[Baroness Morris of Yardley]

If we are arguing about statistics, will the Minister accept that the one I gave was given in a reply from his department?

[Lord Nash]

The noble Baroness is talking about Ofsted grades; I am talking about exam results.

[The Earl of Listowel]

Before the Minister responds, perhaps I may say how pleased I am to be reminded of the weight that the Government are placing on professional judgment. I was pleased to read in the Grand Committee proceedings and in the media that they are introducing this new college for school teachers, which will recruit, train and retain the very best teachers to send out to the schools that need them most. That sort of initiative is very welcome. I also welcome the Government’s drive to build trust in head teachers, recognise their expertise and give them as much authority as possible. My concern is that, because of the way in which the Government have set this up, they are putting huge pressures on head teachers to perform in a certain kind of way—which is to have good academic performance so that one will do well as a head teacher if one jumps through certain hoops, which is what head teachers will try to do. That distorts what they might do.

For instance, yesterday the noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, organised a meeting with children from pupil referral units and hospital schools. We learned that a key issue for those young people is reintegration into mainstream education after their healthcare is completed, or whatever else it might be. A disincentive on the part of head teachers to accept them is that they are not likely to do so well academically. A young boy or girl coming out of hospital who has been away from school for quite some time is not likely to perform as well academically and there might be some hesitation on the part of the head teacher to take them back. I warn the Minister that I may well table an amendment at the next stage of the Bill to help us deal with the particular issue of children who have been out of school for some time and suggest that their data should be excluded from the performance statistics. A head teacher should not have to worry that she will be seen as failing because of a child who has been out of school and is not achieving academically as well as the others. As I say, I may well bring forward an amendment on that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

I thank noble Lords who have participated in this debate. Will the Minister clarify one point? I do not have a copy of the Academies Act with me and I have therefore been unable to check it, but my memory of it is that, in effect, where a school fails, it is initially up to the local authority to effect, so to speak, the process of academisation. The Bill changes it so that:

“The Secretary of State must make an Academy order in respect of a maintained school in England that is eligible for intervention by virtue of section 61 or 62”.

That means that the Secretary of State is now the person to take action. In effect, the Minister said that local authorities do not have to worry at all about this because the regional schools commissioners will take responsibility for it. They will have to worry about whether there is a good academy chain. I said that it is important to take local issues into account. There are a lot of academy chains that are not performing very well at the moment as well as those that are. It is not preferable to bring in a poor-performing academy chain rather than use a strong local school. The preferable solution is to link up at a local level so that the school has locally available mentors that it can easily talk to. I rather object, in some senses, to the way that the Minister said, “Don’t worry any more because the regional schools commissioners are going to take this problem and they’ll sort it out because all our academy chains are so super”. They are not. The Government recognise that. This is an important amendment. We want a more sympathetic approach to it. As we are in Grand Committee, we cannot vote here, so I shall withdraw the amendment.

[Lord Nash]

The noble Baroness is right that the key to school improvement is local school-to-school support. I could not agree more. The academy model is now focused on that, so sponsors will either be a local sponsor in the local MAT formed out of a local outstanding school, and we have created several hundred in the past couple of years, or a part of a national MAT with a local hub. That is essential. I agree entirely with the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, this amendment is an attempt to correct something that I see as rather an error in the Bill. We have this new condition of “coasting”, which is bad—I think that that is probably the great driver here—and we have a solution to coasting schools, which is that they become academies. We have heard a great deal in the Committee—and it is obvious to anyone who thinks about it for three seconds—that occasionally, at certain points in the future—let us not argue about frequency—academies will start to coast. It has already been agreed that they can fail. My amendment is an attempt to try to tie academies into the existing structure that could deal with an academy that has gone wrong.

I feel that we will have a great deal more fun arguing about exactly what the correct definition of “coasting” is. Indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, looked, shall we say, a bit like a dog that had found a nice juicy scent when we talked about the academic definition before. That is something which any Minister should be very wary of. The fact of the matter is that we will have a definition, and no matter how you tweak it, occasionally an academy is going to fall within that definition. If coasting is wrong for one school it must, I hope, be wrong for any school. While, as always, the amendment is probing in nature, it is an attempt to bring such a school in.

Amendment 17 presents a slightly different way of basically removing the fur from this moggie. It would insert a new clause. One thing I like about it is that it goes back to nurse; it goes to Ofsted, a body that can take a look around, which knows the system and which can make a judgment. We should think about that because we know how Ofsted works and how its judgments go, and it is in place. Also, using Ofsted in conjunction with regional schools commissioners is probably quite a sensible idea. We have a body whose judgment we trust and which we have used. We should try to put something into the Bill for academies which are making mistakes and doing something wrong—there could be 1,001 problems. I think that Uplands Junior School in Leicester has lost half its teachers today and is to become an academy. Who knows what is going on there? The Minister is looking at me strangely, but it was reported only today so I understand why he may have missed it. It was brought to my attention very briefly.

[Lord Nash]

I am happy to talk about it now.

[Lord Addington]

Perhaps we can talk about Uplands school at length on Report.

If we go down this path, we will have situations where things go wrong. We need to have an intervention process for an academy that gets it wrong. If it is the entire chain because there is something that is happening through it, we will probably need to intervene on the whole thing. Amendment 16 is just a way of putting in the Bill a provision that says, “Let us try to use what is already in place and so get some sort of solution to this”. It is basically about starting again. I hope that there is no fundamental objection to the amendment and that we will hear how the thinking is developing on something which is an inevitability, no matter how infrequent it is. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Listowel]

I thank the noble Baroness.

[Lord Nash]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 16, 17, 21 and 26 to 29, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Addington, Lord Watson, Lord Hunt and the noble Baronesses, Lady Massey and Lady Bakewell. I will try to keep my remarks to the point but, before doing so, I will respond to a couple of accusations made by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. The first, that we are being dishonest, is quite an accusation and I would take great objection to it if I thought he really meant it. He said that it is dishonest that we should just pass a law turning every school into an academy. Maybe if he feels that is something we should do, he would like to bring an amendment to that effect. I made it clear last week in response to the noble Lord, Lord Knight, and again in a letter this morning which I hope he has now received, that the default position for a coasting school is not to become an academy. I suspect that in many cases they may well be able to improve sufficiently on their own or with limited support. I hope I have made that absolutely clear.

Secondly, there was a suggestion that I never mention maintained schools. That is partly because the Bill is about academies and I am trying to keep to the point. Of course there are many successful maintained schools and I pay tribute to them. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, took me on a most enjoyable trip to Morpeth School in Tower Hamlets, which I was particularly impressed with. I was struck by its approach to CPD.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way and for his comments. This comes back to the points raised by my noble friends Lady Hughes and Lady Morris. From the tone of the Bill, and the fact that schools will be forced to become academies because the Secretary of State has no choice, it is clear that in the end that is the option which the Government want. The point raised by my noble friend Lord Knight is that the Government really believe that academisation is the only route. They do not understand why any maintained school does not want to be an academy, despite the fact that many of us are involved in very successful maintained schools which do not. None the less, the Government have decided that they all ought to be academies. This is quite clearly the policy. Why on earth do they not just do that? What I do not understand is why we have to go through the charade that we are debating today? With respect to the Minister, he has to be forced into saying something positive about non-academy schools because his whole tenor throughout this, is to quote examples from academies. I must challenge him by asking why the Government will not come clean on what their policy really is. I just do not understand it.

[Lord Nash]

I will try and make it clear again. Our approach to failing and inadequate schools, category 4 schools, is that they must become a sponsored academy. That is not our approach to coasting schools, as I hope I have made absolutely clear.

The amendment seeks to address noble Lords’ concerns on a number of points. First, that academies as well as maintained schools should become eligible for intervention when they fail or meet the coasting definition. Secondly, that the Bill proposes to remove consultation on academy conversion when a maintained school is judged inadequate. Thirdly, that a duty is placed on the governing body and local authority to progress academy conversion in such circumstances, and finally that, if necessary, the Bill provides for the Secretary of State to revoke an academy order. I shall deal with these points in turn.

First, on failing and coasting academies, I agree entirely with noble Lords that failure and wider underperformance must be tackled wherever it occurs, whether in a maintained school or in an academy. As I set out when we debated the coasting definition last week, academies are governed by a different legal regime from maintained schools. They are run by charitable companies known as academy trusts which enter into a contractual relationship with the Secretary of State through the signing of a funding agreement. It is this agreement that governs how an academy will operate and how the Secretary of State will hold it to account for its performance.

The vast majority of the more than 5,300 open academies and free schools are performing well. In the small number of cases where we have concerns, I can assure the House that regional schools commissioners are already taking swift and effective action to drive improvements and, subject to the passage of this Bill, RSCs will hold all academies to account against the coasting definition just as rigorously as they will maintained schools. To demonstrate our commitment to continually reviewing our approach and ensuring that poorly performing academies are robustly challenged, we have already added a new coasting clause to the model funding agreement showing explicitly that we intend to tackle all schools which are coasting. This gives the Secretary of State formal powers to terminate a funding agreement where an academy is coasting. Even where academies do not have this specific clause in their agreement, I can assure noble Lords that RSCs will still hold them to account against the coasting definition.

[Lord Addington]

Could the Minister just repeat where that is? That is the real essence of my amendment. Could he repeat where the intervention on coasting academies is?

[Lord Nash]

It is in the new model funding agreement which is on our website and I can send the noble Lord a copy.

[Lord Addington]

Thank you.

[Lord Nash]

RSCs have already shown they can act quickly to bring about improvements. Since September 2014 when RSCs first took up post, they have issued 58 pre-warning and warning notices to academy and free school trusts. In the same period they have also moved 83 academies and free schools to new trusts or sponsors, compared with 13 in the previous academic year. For example, Ipswich Academy in Suffolk was judged to require special measures in January 2015. The RSC acted swiftly to identify a new sponsor for the school and Paradigm Trust has taken on the school from September 2015. Ofsted undertook a monitoring visit in late September and judged that leaders and managers were taking effective action towards the removal of special measures.

In addition, Thetford Academy in Norfolk was judged to require special measures by Ofsted in February 2013. We brought in Inspiration Trust as a new sponsor in September 2013 to run the school. That was seven months later, as compared with the case to which the noble Lord, Lord Addington, referred, where 22 months later Uplands School has yet to become an academy—I will give some more detail on that in a minute. Provisional 2015 results indicate that even under our tougher accountability standards, 47% of pupils achieved five good GCSEs compared to 28% in 2011. Ofsted inspected the academy in December 2014 and judged it to be good with outstanding leadership, describing it as, “transformed beyond recognition”.

These are just two examples of the robust, decisive action that RSCs are taking to tackle underperformance, and of the positive impact they are already having on the school system. Therefore the proposal—that where an academy is judged inadequate or meets the coasting definition it should be eligible for intervention—does not need to be introduced in this Bill as RSCs are already taking action to secure improvements where necessary.

I turn now to the issue of removing consultation. Our manifesto committed to turning every failing maintained school into a sponsored academy, and Clause 7 makes provision for that. As I said in my opening remarks last week, we place children first in our school system and the purpose of the Bill is to ensure that children do not spend any longer than possible in a failing school. A day lost in a child’s education is a day lost forever, and I beg to disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, on this point. We believe that there needs to be a clear course of action when a school is judged inadequate and that there cannot be any question or debate about what the right solution for that school might be. We must be completely clear, as our manifesto was, that becoming an academy with the support of a sponsor will always be the solution where a school has failed. Every minute spent on consultation is a minute that could be spent on turning the school around. Clause 8 therefore removes the requirement for the governing body to consult on whether the school should become an academy in such circumstances. It is clear that it would be nonsensical to carry out a consultation when our manifesto was so clear that the sponsored academy solution would be the outcome in this scenario. I was delighted to hear the noble Lord, Lord Watson, say in Committee last week, “Yes, the Government have the right to implement their manifesto”.

It is crucial to remember that consultation would be removed only in the most serious cases of underperformance. Where a school voluntarily seeks academy status, I agree completely that the school community should contribute its views. In that instance, the governing body is choosing to enter into new arrangements. However, where a school has failed or is otherwise causing concern, there is no choice. Parents will want to see swift and decisive action to bring about urgent transformation.

I want to re-emphasise that this is not about removing democracy or excluding parents, as some have claimed both in the House and in the other place. It is about ensuring that there is a clear course of action in place to improve the very worst schools in our country. We demand immediate action in other instances of failure, such as when an NHS trust is placed in special measures, so why should we expect any less for our schools? It takes on average a year from the time a school is judged inadequate to open as a sponsored academy.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

I cannot resist intervening on that. The whole point is that when we have a failing NHS foundation trust, there are a number of options available to the regulators, whether it is the NHS Trust Development Authority or Monitor; it is not just one-size-fits-all. That really is all that noble Lords are saying here. When it comes down it, if you substitute “may” for “must” in the crucial clause, it is still quite clear where the thrust of the policy is going, but at least that would give some discretion to Ministers. There might be some circumstances where they might want to look at a different option.

I am glad that the Minister has raised the issue of what happens in relation to NHS bodies because I am absolutely clear that both in law and in practice there is a range of options. Something happened to a trust that I was involved in, and the chairman and chief executive of a neighbouring trust have basically become the chairman and chief executive of that one. As I say, there are options. What the Government are saying is that there will be absolutely no option whatever. Actually, I find it quite extraordinary that Ministers do not want to give themselves a little discretion and headroom.

[Lord Nash]

I note the noble Lord’s intervention. He has not disappointed me; we discussed this morning where comparisons might be made with the NHS, so I knew that he would jump up because he has vast experience in the matter of the health service. My point is that action in the NHS is immediate and swift. I shall come on to explain the “must” and “may” point. There are circumstances in which the Secretary of State may be able to revoke her academy order, so it would not always be “must”.

As to the point I made about NHS trusts, I fundamentally agree with those who say, “Should we not have a similarly urgent and clear response to tackling school failure?”. On too many occasions we have seen local authorities and governing bodies putting up barriers and delaying processes in order to prevent the school becoming a sponsored academy. A case in point is Uplands, which the noble Lord, Lord Addington, mentioned earlier, which has been in special measures for 22 months. The IEB was appointed by the local authority in December 2013. It considered a number of proposed sponsors, a missed opportunity for much-needed change. I first wrote to the local authority confirming that I was minded to intervene in February of this year and, after much debate and challenge, the Secretary of State was finally able to reconfirm her decision to appoint her own IEB in September of this year. This was especially needed in the light of Ofsted’s most recent inspection in June confirming that the school was not making enough progress to remove special measures under the local authority’s IEB. A sponsor match has now finally been able to be made.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Nash]

I am happy to introduce the noble Lord to the people involved in this because the lack of progress under the local authority was, I am afraid, extremely disappointing.

Another example of delay was the Warren school in Barking and Dagenham. The Warren was judged inadequate by Ofsted in February 2013. The governing body and the local authority were opposed to academy status and in October that year the existing governing body voted against the sponsored academy solution. When the Secretary of State decided to appoint an IEB and issue an academy order, the local authority and the governing body made an application to the High Court to prevent this from taking place. When the case finally got to court in July 2014, the judge dismissed the claim on all counts. The school finally opened as an academy in September 2014 with the Loxford Trust, some 19 months after first being judged inadequate by Ofsted.

I emphasise that although the Bill proposes to remove the formal requirement to consult on academy conversion for failing schools, parents will still have opportunities to have a say in the future of their child’s school. Once a sponsor has been identified for a school, it is in their interests to engage parents and begin to build a positive relationship with them from the outset. They will want to involve parents in their plans and seek their views on their proposed approach for bringing about improvement during the conversion process. I shall say more about engaging parents in these situations in the later group of amendments.

The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, made some points to which I would like to respond. I pay tribute to her chairmanship of the Birmingham Education Partnership. I was meeting with Sir Mike Tomlinson this morning and we were both singing her praises. Lilian Baylis is of course an outstanding school. We would be delighted for it to become an academy and a sponsor. The issue that we have, we can talk about this in more detail offline, is that the best way to get the maximum organisational benefits out of a multi-academy trust is for it to be in the same legal structure. No one can argue with that. We can go into a lot of detail on it but that is the practical reason.

As for resourcing the RSCs, I made a point on this earlier but we will be resourcing up the RSCs to cater for more work. I cannot comment on this precisely at the moment but I will be able to say quite a lot more about it once the spending review is out of the way—certainly, I hope, in time for Report.

Turning to the duty to facilitate and the power to direct, noble Lords have proposed Amendments 26 and 27, which would have the effect of removing the requirement for governing bodies and local authorities to facilitate the academy conversion of schools rated inadequate by Ofsted. However, the amendments would still result in the governing body and the local authority having to facilitate conversion in other cases, such as when an academy order is made for a school that meets the coasting definition or has not complied with a warning notice.

Amendment 26 removes the requirement for governing bodies and local authorities to facilitate the conversion of inadequate schools. However, it is precisely these schools where there is a real need to intervene quickly and turn the school around without local authorities or governing bodies blocking or delaying progress. We have seen too many instances over the past five years where conversion to academy status has been delayed through long debate and delaying tactics, such as the refusal to provide important information and reluctance to take vital decisions. One example of progress being unnecessarily delayed is the case of Beechview Primary School in Buckinghamshire. The school was first judged inadequate by Ofsted in January 2013 and, despite numerous discussions with the department, the local-authority-appointed IEB consistently refused to vote in favour of becoming a sponsored academy. A further Ofsted inspection in December 2014 rated the school inadequate for a second time, and a monitoring visit in April 2015 found that the local authority had been unable to bring about the improvements needed. The department tried to restart the conversation about sponsored academy status but the IEB remained unsupportive and went on to discuss alternative options with the local authority, including amalgamation with an infant school, as a way of avoiding sponsored academy status. However, at long last, in October 2015 the IEB voted for Sir William Borlase’s Grammar School to be its sponsor. Beechview is expected to open as an academy in 2016, more than three years since it was first judged to be failing its pupils.

To address the issue of unnecessary delays, Clause 10 will ensure that where an academy order is made in respect of a school that is eligible for intervention, the governing body of that school and the local authority must take all reasonable steps to facilitate the conversion of that school into a sponsored academy. In the majority of cases, the effects of Clause 10 should ensure that governing bodies and local authorities take the necessary actions to ensure a sponsored academy solution is in place quickly. However, Clause 11, which allows the Secretary of State to direct a governing body and local authority to take specified steps to facilitate the conversion, is necessary in the event that they are not fulfilling their duties or that more specific timescales or steps need to be set. Amendment 27 seeks to remove Clause 11 in the case of inadequate schools. It is crucial that regional schools commissioners have the benefit of the duties and powers in Clauses 10 and 11 in relation to inadequate schools. These provisions are crucial if we want to be able to strengthen our ability to deal with failure and to do so more swiftly.

Before concluding, I shall finally speak to Amendments 28 and 29, which probe Clause 12 regarding the power to revoke academy orders. In particular, they probe its purpose in relation to schools rated inadequate by Ofsted where Clause 7 has been clear that an academy order must be made. I have used this debate to reiterate the clear commitment in the Government’s manifesto that failing schools will become academies and that academy orders must therefore be made whenever a school is judged inadequate by Ofsted. There will, however, be rare circumstances where an academy order needs to be revoked. Clause 12 addresses this by inserting a new Section 5D into the Academies Act 2010. This will allow the Secretary of State to revoke any academy order issued to a school which is eligible for intervention, including in a failing school where an academy order must be made.

We envisage that in the case of failing schools there might be a very small number of exceptional cases where the Secretary of State decides that academy conversion should not be pursued. A school may, for example, prove to be unviable and closure may sadly be inevitable, or it may have gone into special measures for a very specific safeguarding issue which has been rectified. There may be other examples in future and while we expect those examples to be exceptional, it would be wrong to remove the Secretary of State’s power to revoke an academy order on any inadequate school as this amendment suggests. I therefore urge the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

[Baroness Massey of Darwen]

Will the Minister elucidate two things for me? First, I understand there is a consultation on what “coasting schools” will mean. When will that consultation be finalised, and when will we have a definition of coasting schools? Will the Bill proceed to its final stages before we have that definition? What is the state of the consultation?

Secondly, the Minister glorified, for want of a better word, the academy system. We have heard little from him about the successes of maintained schools, which the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, so eloquently described. Nor has he justified why a coasting school will be converted with no need for consultation. I do not understand what happens if you consult after the process; that does not seem to be consultation. A high-performing school is not required to consult. It should consult staff, parents and others who have an interest and take account of those views before entering into academy arrangements. This seems a very strange thing to do. Some people can be consulted, and some people cannot. I cannot understand why this should happen.

[Lord Nash]

The consultation will close on 18 December and we will announce the findings in the spring. Unlike in failing schools—

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie]

In looking at the document, that is indeed what it says. The Minister, I am sure, would expect the Bill long before then. Would he not?

[Lord Nash]

We will, of course, take into account the responses to the consultation before finalising the regulations.

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie]

If that is the case, if the Bill did not become law, what would apply with regard to “coasting” in the interim?

[Lord Nash]

The definition is in the regulations, not in the Bill. That is what we are talking about in the consultation.

Unlike failing schools, intervention on coasting schools will not be automatic, as I have said. Schools will be given time to demonstrate their capacity to improve sufficiently, either on their own or with assistance. There will already have been a dialogue, likely over quite a long period of time, about a school’s plans to bring about improvements and an opportunity to share views with parents and others. I think that I have finished. In view of what I have said, I ask the noble Lord to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, on the definition of “coasting”, I wonder how much the Treasury Bench wishes it had got that in place before we started. We have gone round that before and will probably go round it again.

[Lord Nash]

We published the definition in June.

[Lord Addington]

I know, but that is an administrative thing. We should have something in the Bill. Much of this discussion is about why we cannot have things in the Bill. That seems to be quite a good answer but I did not find that regulation.

My amendment is about what happens when an academy is coasting. If there were a reference to it, or if we knew that it would be published, this amendment would not have gone down. I did not table the amendment because I could not think of anything else to do; there are novels I could read and other activities I could do. But I had a look at this and it seemed that academies were excluded from the state of something being wrong, such as “coasting” or underachieving. Everyone else who looked at it said, “Yes, that seems to be correct”.

I hope that on Report we will get a little more definition and guidance on when these things will come through. At the moment, we are still groping around. Some things have been published—indeed, some unfinished things have been published—so we are constantly looking. I will read the document, of which I was not aware, and I may find that it addresses the point. At the moment, though, we have the idea that some schools are bad but that does not seem to apply to half or more of the schools in the country. That is totally inequitable and removes a way of intervening to help pupils. Surely a little more time needs to be given to ensuring that we can find where the information is. We are still going through consultations and the argument on the definition of “coasting” is far from over, so we need a bit more time and effort on that.

The noble Lords on my physical right presented an interesting amendment, and I am sure that we will have a discussion about that and see what we can do about it at another stage. At the moment, though, as we are in Grand Committee, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Nash]

My Lords, the group of amendments including Amendment 19 proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and Amendments 20 and 22 proposed by the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, and the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, focus on the involvement of parents and others in decisions where schools are underperforming as well as in decisions about the conversion of schools which are performing well. I also hope to use this debate to reiterate why Clause 8 is so fundamental and should stand part of the Bill.

Why the new and strengthened intervention powers in the Bill apply only to local authority maintained schools and not to academies features again in Amendment 22. I hope that following our debates at the first Committee session and earlier today, many of which probed our approach to failing and coasting academies, noble Lords will be reassured that regional schools commissioners already take swift and effective action where an academy is not performing well.

The other main issue raised by Amendments 20 and 22 is the involvement of parents when a school is eligible for intervention and will either be required to become an academy by virtue of being a failing school, or may be subject to an academy order or other form of intervention where it is identified as coasting or has failed to comply with a warning notice. Looking first at schools which have failed and have been judged to be inadequate by Ofsted, as I have already said, we are clear in the Bill and in our manifesto that any failing school must become an academy with the support of a sponsor. It is illogical to retain consultation on whether a school should convert when our manifesto makes it so clear that that would be the outcome.

Clause 8 is also vitally important because we want transformation to take place from day one. As I said, the Bill will ensure that the academy conversion process for such schools will be as swift as possible, not delayed through debates about whether a school should become an academy or not. That is also why Clause 8 removes the requirement for consultation on whether a school should become an academy. Maura Regan, CEO of the Carmel Education Trust, a passionate woman who noble Lords heard from at last week’s event, summarises the case better than I can. She said that the difficulty with allowing a consultation or vote about whether a school should convert to academy status is that it is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. The adults’ perspective will largely always be skewed or biased. Moving swiftly to transform the school is about championing the interests of the child over and above many stakeholders not able or willing to grasp the long-term wider view. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, who made similar comments last week in Committee and to the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, who made similar comments in an earlier debate.

As I said at the outset, this is about putting children first. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, takes objection to the words “for too long the interests of adults have stood in the way of a child’s education in circumstances where a school is failing”, but sadly events prove that to be the case time and time again. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Deben for his very eloquent remarks. It seems that we have a fundamentally different sense of urgency on this side of the Committee compared with noble Lords on the other side. I have great respect for the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, but it is as simple as that.

[Baroness Morris of Yardley]

My Lords, I cannot allow that to stand. I requested in the previous debate that we did not throw that kind of remark across. I hope that the Minister would wish to put on record that no one on this side does not have a sense of urgency. If the Minister is going to do nothing while a school is converted to an academy, then shame on him because other things can be done while a discussion, a meeting with parents, takes place. The school’s hands are not tied with regard to changing the head teacher, getting someone in to help, putting challenge in and doing other things rather than converting to an academy. He might end up disagreeing with us but I hope he will not rest on the argument that it is because we are prepared to sit on our backsides while children fail. That is not the case, and I think he knows that if he thinks about it carefully.

[Lord Nash]

I fully accept that on both sides of the House we want to put the interests of children first. Maybe we have a different approach to doing that. I have already described to the House that once a sponsor has been identified for a failing school, sponsors will be keen to engage with parents about their plans for the school, ensuring that parents understand what will happen next and have the opportunity to share their views on the sponsor’s approach. Widnes Academy is just such an example. The performance of the predecessor maintained school, West Bank Primary School, had declined and in May 2013 it was put into special measures by Ofsted. The Innovation Enterprise Academy, a high-performing local secondary academy, was named as the sponsor for the school, and its first action was to engage with parents, pupils and staff to seek their views about how the new academy should operate.

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie]

But all this is after the event. He says that sponsors will be keen to engage with parents; yes, I would think they should be, but it is then too late for parents who disagreed with the decision in the first place. Why not do it the other way round?

[Lord Nash]

As it said in our manifesto, a school will become an academy in these circumstances.

I go back to the excellent work that the Innovation Enterprise Academy did in the case of West Bank Primary School. It had drop-in sessions at the school for parents and appointed a parent champion to the interim executive board. Parents and pupils were invited to name the new academy and design the new uniform and logo. As a result, parents were much more supportive of the school becoming an academy.

Noble Lords who attended last week’s meeting heard from Martyn Oliver, chief executive of one of our most successfully performing academy trusts, Outwood Grange. He said:

“A prospective trust does not just ride roughshod over a school and its community. Outwood Grange has a clear vision and we are passionate about engaging staff and parents on that vision. The advantage of our model is that alongside the clear vision of the trust, local governing bodies are left with more space to focus on things like engaging with the local community. Ultimately parents are happy, especially when they start to see the dramatic improvements in results for their children”.

Examples such as this show that parents will still have opportunities to have a say in the future of their children’s school if it has failed, even if there is no longer a question of whether or not a failing school should convert.

Looking at coasting schools, we debated at length last week the importance of parents being aware when their child’s school is identified as coasting so that they can then understand and challenge how the governing body and leadership team intend to improve sufficiently. As I said earlier, unlike in failing schools, intervention in coasting schools will not be automatic, and schools will be given time to demonstrate their capacity to improve sufficiently. There will therefore already have been a dialogue, likely to have taken place over a long period of time, about a school’s plans to bring about improvement and an opportunity to share views with RSCs, the community and parents before any decision for the school to become a sponsored academy is made.

As discussed, we already expect that governing bodies in schools identified as coasting would share relevant information with parents, but we have committed to consider whether there is anything further that can be included in the statutory Schools Causing Concern guidance to ensure that such engagement with parents consistently takes place.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, asked about the circumstances in which governing bodies were obliged to notify parents. The legislation in this area is quite complex, depending on the status of the individual school. I am happy to write to her to explain that in some detail.

We feel confident that what parents want most is for their child to attend a school that is performing well. The Bill is all about ensuring that we have robust powers to challenge underperformance wherever it occurs, enabling us to tackle not just failing schools but now also coasting schools.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, again referred to my tendency to talk about only academies and not schools in the maintained sector. There is an excellent example of cross-academy and local authority maintained work in the Birmingham Education Partnership, which the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, chairs. Of course we recognise that there are many excellent schools in the maintained sector, but this Bill is about failing schools. We are not here to talk about excellent maintained schools.

As for the local knowledge that regional schools commissioners have, it is excellent. I look forward to introducing the noble Lord, Lord Watson, as part of his essential due diligence on this Bill, to some of the regional schools commissioners. He can discuss with them how close they are to the coal face. I hope that he will engage with them and be very impressed. As he said, a list of RSC decisions is already published on the GOV.UK website and we are making the decision-making of RHCs and HTBs more transparent. From December, a fuller note of head teacher board meetings will be published to cover all meetings from October this year, and will contain information on the particular criteria that were considered for each decision.

I turn to Amendment 19, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, which relates to where a governing body is proposing that a school should convert to an academy voluntarily where it is a school that is performing well and is not eligible for intervention. The amendment proposes that rather than consulting whoever it deems appropriate, the governing body should specifically be required to consult certain persons, including parents and guardians, teaching and support staff at the school, the local authority and also itself.

The purpose of Clause 8 is to ensure that we have robust powers to take action in schools that are failing, coasting or otherwise underperforming. I want to ensure we remain focused on that very important issue. The Bill does not have any impact on schools that are performing well, but I will gladly address the amendment. As I have set out, that is why Clause 8 removes the requirement for the governing body to consult on whether a school should become an academy. It is crucial to remember that we are talking about removing consultation only in the most serious cases.

The amendment proposes that, rather than the governing body having the flexibility to consult such persons as they think appropriate in cases where they convert voluntarily, it should be specified that the governing body must consult certain people. This very matter was discussed in detail, as the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, said, when the Academies Act 2010 was a Bill under consideration by this House, where we first introduced the prospect of schools that were performing well voluntarily converting to academy status.

Where schools are performing well, we must trust professionals to do their jobs without the unnecessary interference of central government—a fundamental principle underpinning the academies programme—and therefore it is right, as my noble friend Lord Deben said, that we leave it to those professionals to decide exactly who should be consulted on the matter of whether a good school should convert to an academy. In our view, it would not be right for us to dictate an inflexible checklist in legislation, which would not in itself ensure that consultation was any more thorough or meaningful. As my noble friend Lord Deben said, it might essentially consign some people to being second-class consultees. Having said that, we have very clear guidance to prospective converters, available on GOV.UK, setting out expectations that the consultation will include staff members and parents and should also include pupils and the wider community, but anyone with an interest can share their views.

I therefore do not believe that the amendment is necessary. The process for good schools converting to academy status is working well. In practice as opposed to theory, we have had no significant challenge or any real pressure to change the current requirements. Interest in conversion remains high: since 1 September 2014 we have received over 500 applications to become a converter academy. Converter academies continue to perform well: 2015 results show that the key stage 2 results of primary converter academies open for two or more years have improved by four percentage points since opening. Secondary converter academies continue to perform well above average, with 63.3% of pupils achieving five good GCSEs in 2015, 7.2 percentage points above the state-funded average.

While we have made the case for the need for a swifter academisation process in the case of underperforming schools, the Bill does not intend to change anything about the very successful process of converting strong schools. I hope, however, that this debate has clarified just why Clause 8 is so integral to the Bill. We still believe that sponsors and governing bodies should engage with parents about plans affecting their child’s school, and of course they do, but to mandate through legislation such consultation and what form it should take would be disproportionate and would only lead to delays in schools whose performance requires quick redress. I therefore urge noble Lords not to press their amendments and to let Clause 8 stand part of the Bill.

[Lord Sutherland of Houndwood]

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, I make plain that you do not have to be a member of the Conservative Party to support the Government on this one. It is interesting that he quoted two Cross-Benchers who have spoken in comparable terms. It is rather important to take account of the history of this and what people’s experience has been. We are not dealing with the best local authorities; there are good ones, but we are dealing with the others. Lastly, for the avoidance of doubt, I raised the question about the word “must”. I have been satisfied with the Minister’s reply relating to a later clause in the Bill.